Elitetrack: Sport Training & Conditioning

And refernce special endurance it seems it could actually be considered intensive tempo early in the season, progressing to SE1 and then to true Speed End.

Yes.

I guess no negative effects from the intensive tempo?

No and why would their be? Perhaps you’re referring to CF’s “no-intermediate worK” philosophy?

How do you feel about the no intermediate work philosophy? Does it have a place in a 100m guys training? Couldn’t you get the same results without it? Are you familiar with Cf’s thoughts on artery walls thickening from such work?

Originally posted by davan
How do you feel about the no intermediate work philosophy?

I don’t think it holds much weight. If it were the focus of training or the dominant stimulus then it would be a concern but this is not the case in Dan’s setup.

Does it have a place in a 100m guys training?

I think it could but there are better options. Pfaff actually doesn’t use much intermediate work (only 1 day a week early on in the season) and uses no extensive tempo for his sprinters. 

Couldn’t you get the same results without it?

Definitely. However, I’d bet more top sprinters over the ages have used intermediate work than not.

Are you familiar with Cf’s thoughts on artery walls thickening from such work?

Not really but being concerned about it seems completely unfounded to me.

I agree with Mike re: intermediate work.  Although, CF has some excellent thoughts re: speed development, I believe that he is a bit too dogmatic on this point.

Mike,

I was referring to CF’s philosophy of no intermediate work. However, something I have noticed that he recommends is split runs, for example a split 300 could be 150, walkback, 150. To me that is INTENSIVE tempo/INTERMEDIATE WORK. It’s faster than ext. tempo, but not as fast as a full on 150. He then moves on to true 200-300 -SE1. Maybe someone knows something I don’t but it looks to me like we are talking about the same thing and CF just calls it a different name.

Re: Dan, as you stated and from the information provided it seems like after a few mesocylces it is SE I anyway.

No, it is simply a rep split up. For example, a split 300 would be 200+100 followed by adequate rest. The overall intensity is high. Also, he changes the accel zones to control the intensity relative to current abilities (extending accel later on in the training year).

do any of you guys know how pfaff setup his rudiment work for as vol etc?  also on his light days where he has tech work are those just builds working on tech?

utfootball4 - 17 June 2006 08:43 AM

do any of you guys know how pfaff setup his rudiment work for as vol etc?  also on his light days where he has tech work are those just builds working on tech?

1-2 x 20-30m for each exercise.

jacko - 20 January 2005 11:50 AM

A bit more, I dont think Dan would mind,

We work acceleration development sessions twice a week, all year long and
this is the base of our teaching philosophy. From there we introduce twice
weekly special speed endurance work which also happens all year long. These
four workouts form the cornerstones of our program. We classically do acc.
dev. on M&F with spd. end. on W&Sat;......We total 300-600m of acc. dev.
each day and total 1000-1200m of spd end. during the first few
mesocycles…..We start with 2 minute rest at the beginning  of the year
and increase the rest by 1 minute each month so that by the end of the year
we may be taking 20 minutes or longer between runs. With women a sample
workout might be 6x200m in 36" for cycle one using 2' recovery….the next
month hopefully we are doing the same in 34-35" with three minute
rec….and so on…...by comp peak we may be going 2x200 in 24.0 with full
recovery….I seldom go over 300m with the 100-200m types and do no road
work or classic tempo endurance stuff. I believe in gradual adaptation to
stress and progressive running. I am also a big fan of mastering a certain
level before moving on to more esoteric stuff….dan

The above quote goes into a little about how Dan periodizes Spd End, i.e. lengthening the rest interval per microcycle.

But, does anyone know how he periodizes the distance of spd end runs? He says he does very little work over 300m and we know Donovan run upto 150m only.

Obviously he is a S - L guy especially for accel and max v, but does he do L - S for spd end?

not necessarily… he'll normally lengthen the rest and the number of runs done. Something like 2-4 runs with long breaks.

The program isn't a clean cut short to long as acceleration development tends to stay in the program year round. This is kinda how I set things up as well.

Mike Young - 20 November 2007 09:36 AM

The program isn't a clean cut short to long as acceleration development tends to stay in the program year round. This is kinda how I set things up as well.

What do you mean acc development tends to stay in the program year round, a couple reps each speed workout or one whole workout for acc work only?

He does accel workouts usually 48 weeks out of the year, twice per week typically.

From what I gather he does go short to long as far as the acceleration progression.

As Mike and I have discussed, there is a bit of gray area on the MaxV workouts. In other words he may work speed, alactic, neural endurance in the same rep or race modeling runs as well (I am thinking Sprint-Float-Sprints for race modelling).

On a different note what do you guys think of using 60m buildups run to a high intensity for MaxV development? Wouldn't it end up being essentially a flying sprint.

Sorry I must be missing something but UT asked the following
"do any of you guys know how pfaff setup his rudiment work for as vol etc?"
What is as vol?  Mike answered by saying 1-2 x 20-30m for each exercise.  Thanks.

We use 50-60m runs as speed devel during the year. Sometimes we call it "fly work" to emphasize a certain part of the run…

We also do Sprint-Float-Sprint as well as a speed/speed endurance work. But when we first start we just do Sprint-Float.

Mike Young - 10 February 2005 07:22 PM

...I think it could but there are better options. Pfaff actually doesn't use much intermediate work (only 1 day a week early on in the season) and uses no extensive tempo for his sprinters…

.....We start with 2 minute rest at the beginning  of the year
and increase the rest by 1 minute each month so that by the end of the year
we may be taking 20 minutes or longer between runs. With women a sample
workout might be 6x200m in 36" for cycle one using 2' recovery….the next
month hopefully we are doing the same in 34-35" with three minute
rec….and so on…...by comp peak we may be going 2x200 in 24.0 with full
recovery….

Mike, could you clarify the "no extensive tempo" for me? Does this include GPP? Under another post, a quote from Dan stated that they may start out with something like 6 x 200 in 36secs, eventually becoming something like 2 x 200 in 24secs. Wouldn't the intensity of these earlier workouts (24/36= 66.7%) classify them as extensive tempo? In fact, anything slower than 30secs would be extensive tempo, and it sounds like that would take them up to 3-4 months to reach if he's dropping the times by a couple of seconds per month as he states above? Is it because these are split runs with little rest? Even so, it seems like such a slow pace would classify at least the earliest (>30secs per rep) workouts as extensive tempo.

Also, the progression of 200's starts with little rest (2mins) then progresses to more and more rest and eventually full recovery between reps as volume decreases and intensity increases. This is the reverse of others such as Kitkat who reduced rest, along with volume, as training, and intensity, progressed. Were these workouts for 100/200m sprinters? Did his 400m workouts include 200m reps with reduced (2mins or so) rest between reps later in SPP?

Finally, was the lack extensive tempo found even in the 400m training? If not, could someone give an example of a week of GPP and a week of SPP for his 400m sprinters?