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Cytofuse vs. the World
Posted: 27 December 2006 11:45 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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As many people know on this forum I work with http://www.blackstarlabs.com to help promote regeneration and I find it ironic the same people that complain about supplements are same people with some of the worst dietary habits, or coach athletes with the worst diets period. Currently I have been working with Dave Rosland over the last three years and we are worried about the direction of the industry as
 
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Posted: 27 December 2006 04:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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I only complain about supplements because I feel a regular diet that is supplemented with additional carbohydrate and protein along with water after a workout is beneficial to recovery and regeneration.   What I still don't get is that everything taken into the body and imported into the lymphatic and blood systems has to be broken down first to be absorbed and why importance is placed on what type of fat or sugar you put into your system.  A regular dietary fat i don't care if it's lard, butter, olive oil, etc… It's broken down to it's basic components for absorption into those systems.   Pre Comp/Workout and Post Comp/Workout suggest 2 different types of sugars to be used as a replenishment based on how fast they breakdown and the subsequent insulin response.   The sugars found in fruits is the same as found in sugar cane, the carbs in wheat flour versus white flour are relatively the same with the exception being the amount of dietary fiber. A person can get adequate amounts of fiber from other sources, including supplements.  I know all proteins are not made the same but again they are broken down by pepsin into their respective amino acids.  I think the biggest problems are the diet is not balanced enough with respects for the demands of activity (eating too much or too little) and/ or not enough carbohydrate or protein to support regeneration/recovery or to fuel the activity properly.  This pretty much sums up too much fat in the diet compared to carbohydrates and proteins.  The satiety experienced by eating too much fat, can decrease calorie consumption a reason why the Atkins Diet works to lose weight initially, but as usual the body can adapt to such feelings and override those feelings over time and those people ultimately gain weight, because the amount of food that used to make them feel full no longer does.   Wow, that leads us to another simple principle that is valid in training as well, that is of variation.  You can still derive the same basic quantities of nutrients needed when varying the meals you eat, just like you can add variety to a workout, but keep the specific physiological responses the same.  To me it's an amazing simple concept.

Therefore I view supplementation as just that, but many athletes and people don't.  It should be used as a way to augment needs when other available means are not an option.

Sorry Carl, but I had to rant on this topic after I ate 50 shrimp sauteed in butter and garlic with carbohydrate to speak of in the meal and I am now paying the price, because I knew better.

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Posted: 28 December 2006 04:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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I don't know what your point(s) were but your science is way off.  When I hear that lard is the same as high grade fish oil I don't bother responding most of the time. The chemcial structure of fructose is far different than dextrose. I suggest you do a little more investigation before you simplify this post to a cliff notes of nutrition.

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Posted: 28 December 2006 06:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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So does that mean my Crisco & bologna based post-workout shake isn't good for me?

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Posted: 28 December 2006 06:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Carl Valle - 28 December 2006 04:49 AM

I don't know what your point(s) were but your science is way off.  When I hear that lard is the same as high grade fish oil I don't bother responding most of the time. The chemcial structure of fructose is far different than dextrose. I suggest you do a little more investigation before you simplify this post to a cliff notes of nutrition.

Can we have more info on Cytofuse?  How many servings does it have, what are the ingredients?  I didn't see that info on myonova or blackstarlabs.  Thanks.

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Posted: 28 December 2006 09:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Carl the point was Lard is broken down.  So is the fish oil.  It's not like lard goes into the body then magically ends up in your bloodstream again as lard.  The metabolism of fructose and dextrose are the same. 

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Posted: 28 December 2006 02:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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danimal9 - 28 December 2006 09:49 AM

Carl the point was Lard is broken down.  So is the fish oil.  It's not like lard goes into the body then magically ends up in your bloodstream again as lard.  The metabolism of fructose and dextrose are the same. 


I can't get into debates with people who think the metabolism of fructose and dextrose is the same. 

Mike- spray can cheese and slimjims as Danimal9 believes it all breaks down to the same stuff.

Mortac- u2u me your email as I can send you the label and exclusive discount.

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Posted: 28 December 2006 05:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Carl Valle - 28 December 2006 02:33 PM
danimal9 - 28 December 2006 09:49 AM

Carl the point was Lard is broken down.  So is the fish oil.  It's not like lard goes into the body then magically ends up in your bloodstream again as lard.  The metabolism of fructose and dextrose are the same. 


I can't get into debates with people who think the metabolism of fructose and dextrose is the same. 

Mike- spray can cheese and slimjims as Danimal9 believes it all breaks down to the same stuff.

Mortac- u2u me your email as I can send you the label and exclusive discount.

So does can cheese and slimjim enter my bloodstream or lymph?  I did not say that it breaks down to the same thing, but ALL sugars are broken down and converted to glucose and glycogen for use or storage.  The body doesn't have another carbohydrate fuel source that I am aware of.    With regards to lipids, they are broken down to glycerol and free fatty acid chains that they consist of and those chains differ.  They float around in the blood and lymph until they are used for energy or stored in adipose tissue, then that is an area of cholesterol metabolism and fat storage.  Protein breakdown is pretty simple too, the proteins which are a combination of amino acid groups are broken down into individual amino acids and transported as well.

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Posted: 30 December 2006 07:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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you are not considering the role of essential fats etc. or the correlations between different  metabolic paths.
you're right though,  the single metabolic pathes by themselves can be simple at first glance.  seeing them in the greater picture however takes some practice. 

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Posted: 30 December 2006 09:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Looking at a biology textbook it sure seems that the nature of what you eat doesn't matter but..

How do you explain studies showing improved organism function with mediteranean/pacific diets as a opposed to the typical american one.

I think you are looking at this from the wrong level, namely the macro.  You neglect the important micronutrients you get from quality foods and the importance of insulin control.

Also, trans fats are metabolised the same way as monounsaturated fats!?

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Posted: 30 December 2006 10:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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I noted insulin control by specifying what you consume with respect to sugar before physical activity should differ from what you consume after such activity.

The typical american diet is full of overindulgence and gluttony.  The typical Mediterranean and Pacific Rim diets are less calorie dense than american ones.   In a country were "Burritos as Big as your Head" and Super Sizing is the norm, what do you expect a nation of ectomorphs?

To enter the bloodstream, yes, it's the same.  In the bloodstream, cholesterol metabolism plays a big role in the distribution, transport, and storage of lipids.  The interplay between cholesterol metabolism and the different fatty-acid chains is more complicated and there is some genetic, some differences between the different chains of fatty-acids, etc…

I don't believe in a thread that starts with supplementation that I could possibly be neglecting micronutrients when taking a centrum is all you need to supplement that.

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Posted: 30 December 2006 09:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Even in studies where caloric intake and activity levels were balanced, mediteranean diets typically fair better for a number of factors: longevity, greater cognitive function in elder years, and almost all indicators of cardiac health.

Centrum also doesn't cover phyto-nutrients or EFAs.

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Posted: 30 December 2006 09:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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mike:

I think the hard facts on EFA and cholesterol still has some time to develop.   The difference in knowledge now compared to 10 years ago has debunked a lot of the cholesterol myths.  The evidence on phytonutrients is hard to dispute given a lot overwhelming anecdotal evidence and some research.  However, we use supplementations for things everyday.  I think my original post was taken out of context, of course Carl would have had to read the whole thing to realize that I said balance was the most important thing with a diet and that deals with size of meals in terms of calories, the caloric distribution, and so on, and supplements are exactly that supplementations to keep the diet in balance with the needs of the body.  Hence my reference to my meal that night.

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