Elitetrack: Sport Training & Conditioning

Lets talk some ole school training, I am curious how many of you guys have used pyramid training before?  Below you can see one example I used many many years ago with great success at the time for the back squat:

back squat:
275x10
315x8
365x6
405x4
455x2
225x2x8

Each week try and add weight to the bar.

Some of my workouts could be considered similar, but I would use less effort on all the sets on the way up.

If my goal was 655x5, 635x5 for a day then I might go:
45x8
135x8
225x6
315x3
405x2
495x1
655x5
635x5
But I don't really consider that a pyramid since no real effort went into any sets except 2x5.

I think you can get more out of the heavy sets by saving energy. I would do something like:
225x6
275x4
315x3
365x2
405x1
465x(4-5)
445x(4-6)
I'd even skip the 405 unless you "need" it. I would often skip the 495 in the above rep scheme.

Richard_703 - 02 April 2007 07:28 AM

Some of my workouts could be considered similar, but I would use less effort on all the sets on the way up.

If my goal was 655x5, 635x5 for a day then I might go:
45x8
135x8
225x6
315x3
405x2
495x1
655x5
635x5
But I don't really consider that a pyramid since no real effort went into any sets except 2x5.

I think you can get more out of the heavy sets by saving energy. I would do something like:
225x6
275x4
315x3
365x2
405x1
465x(4-5)
445x(4-6)
I'd even skip the 405 unless you "need" it. I would often skip the 495 in the above rep scheme.

i totally agree i usually save alot on the 1086 and push the 421,  also i usually would just go by feel each workout.  if you would push all sets i think it give you better result at the end of the cycle. remember the earlier sets are for hypertrophy. this is the 4 week squat cycle i am on now, tell me what u think.

5x50 4x63 3x68 2x78 1x85
5x50 4x65 3x73 2x80 1x88
5x50 4x68 3x80 2x90 1x98
5x50 4x68 3x85 2x98 1x105

You might get the 105%, but to be honest it seems that most of the sets are very easy and then suddenly hard at the end. It is easier for me to put that into poundages.

Lets assume you start that program with 500 1RM. I don't know what you are actually using for 1RM, but its OK for discussion.

Week 1 is: 5x250, 4x315, 3x340, 2x390, 1x425.  With a 500 1RM I can't see this being too demanding at all.

Before the day with 105% (week 4) there are only two sets at 90+%.

Week 2 to week 3 you jump from 440 to 490 without having done a lot of "work" sets at any heavy weight.
I think that for only 4 weeks you could go higher reps on the heavy sets, then bring it down.

eg
6x50  4x60  3x70 (4-5)x85
6x50  4x60  3x70 (3-5)x90
6x50  4x60  3x70 (2-3)x96
6x50  4x60  3x70  (1-2)x(102-105)  (1-2)x(102-105)

As you say I would go by feel. If you get 5 reps at 85 in week 1, then add a little more than 90% in week 2, if you are on the low end of the rep ranges listed add a little less the next week.

Either way I'll be interested if you hit 105% as well as all the track work.

Richard_703 - 02 April 2007 11:08 AM

You might get the 105%, but to be honest it seems that most of the sets are very easy and then suddenly hard at the end. It is easier for me to put that into poundages.

Lets assume you start that program with 500 1RM. I don't know what you are actually using for 1RM, but its OK for discussion.

Week 1 is: 5x250, 4x315, 3x340, 2x390, 1x425.  With a 500 1RM I can't see this being too demanding at all.

Before the day with 105% (week 4) there are only two sets at 90+%.

Week 2 to week 3 you jump from 440 to 490 without having done a lot of "work" sets at any heavy weight.
I think that for only 4 weeks you could go higher reps on the heavy sets, then bring it down.

eg
6x50  4x60  3x70 (4-5)x85
6x50  4x60  3x70 (3-5)x90
6x50  4x60  3x70 (2-3)x96
6x50  4x60  3x70  (1-2)x(102-105)  (1-2)x(102-105)

As you say I would go by feel. If you get 5 reps at 85 in week 1, then add a little more than 90% in week 2, if you are on the low end of the rep ranges listed add a little less the next week.

Either way I'll be interested if you hit 105% as well as all the track work.

First of all im not doing alot of track work at this time mostly fb drills and 1-2 days of track work.  i believe in what some of the westside guys  said "you dont have to beat your body up to get stronger" and those so call easy sets are saving me so i can have something left in the tank to ran a 100 and 200 on saturdays while still getting stronger. im pretty sure i will get 105% (575)! you must havent check my journal over the last 8 weeks very lil work over 85% but i feel explosive as fark. SAVE URSELF SO U CAN HARD WHEN NEED BE!!

I agree with all that too, but for just 4 weeks (three plus "test") you can get away with a few tough sets.

Richard_703 - 02 April 2007 11:52 AM

I agree with all that too, but for just 4 weeks (three plus "test") you can get away with a few tough sets.

with short cycles its even more important not to go crazy, 85% for 5 is a 100% effort.

that 4 week cycle was designed for the older lifter "These strength athletes want and can still lift some really heavy weights, but they must train quite differently. I am going to present here some training principles and programs for the strength athlete who might be past his or her prime or might not have the time, energy, desire, or ability to train long, hard hours, but would still like to be strong, healthy, and lift some pretty heavy weights, just for the fun of it".  Coach Schmitz

Yeah, I don't usually work too strictly with %s. At the start of a cycle I go by feel, and where I want to end up, rather than figuring out exactly what my 1RM is at the start.
My lifting experience is with lifting-only and 12 week cycles. A lot changes (hopefully) over 12 weeks.

utfootball4 - 02 April 2007 12:01 PM

that 4 week cycle was designed for the older lifter "These strength athletes want and can still lift some really heavy weights, but they must train quite differently. I am going to present here some training principles and programs for the strength athlete who might be past his or her prime or might not have the time, energy, desire, or ability to train long, hard hours, but would still like to be strong, healthy, and lift some pretty heavy weights, just for the fun of it".  Coach Schmitz

Hey, "past his prime"! I should try it…

Richard_703 - 02 April 2007 12:05 PM

utfootball4 - 02 April 2007 12:01 PM

that 4 week cycle was designed for the older lifter "These strength athletes want and can still lift some really heavy weights, but they must train quite differently. I am going to present here some training principles and programs for the strength athlete who might be past his or her prime or might not have the time, energy, desire, or ability to train long, hard hours, but would still like to be strong, healthy, and lift some pretty heavy weights, just for the fun of it".  Coach Schmitz

Hey, "past his prime"! I should try it…

hes another great ol weightlifting coach.

We pyramid in a very similar fashion to what y'all have posted. We pyramid our daily workout on ME days, and cycle or wave the intensity similar to what you have posted above. We do like to raise the intensity if we are focusing on power. After warming up with bar only, then warm ups with 135lbs and 225lbs, we might do something like this…

5x50 4x65 3x70 3x80 2x85
5x50 4x65 3x73 2x85 2x90
5x50 4x68 3x80 2x90 1x95
5x50 4x68 3x85 1x95 1x102

We don't do a lot of singles, and we try to get over 90% at least once or twice each week. The lower reps in the first few sets keep you from getting beat up. Triples and double don't really take that much of you, especially if you are careful with your accessory movements.

If we are focusing on hypertrophy, we might do something like this (similar to UT's first post)...

5x60 3x70 3x75 2x80     8 x 70    8 x 70
5x60 3x74 2x80 2x85     8 x 73    8 x 73
5x60 3x78 2x85 1x90     8 x 75    8 x 75
5x60 3x83 1x90 1x95     8 x 77    8 x 77

I don't feel that the warm ups sets do much for hypertrophy unless they are at least 8 reps per set and at least 65% of 1RM. In this second pyramid scheme, we're still doing heavy weights with a few sets >90% 1RM, so continuing to work on strength, put the primary emphasis of hypertrophy comes out in the last two sets. These sets are killer, and we don't always get our full 8 reps on the last set. We cycle back and forth between the power emphasis and the hypertrophy emphasis almost all year long.

One final caveat…we don't actually calculate out the percentages. We know roughly how much we need to bump up on each set, and round everything to 5lbs., so our percentages are not exactly as posted above. We do know what our 'stages' were from the week before and we add 5 - 10lbs. from the week before at each stage, depending on how we feel.

star61 - 02 April 2007 02:46 PM

We pyramid in a very similar fashion to what y'all have posted. We pyramid our daily workout on ME days, and cycle or wave the intensity similar to what you have posted above. We do like to raise the intensity if we are focusing on power. After warming up with bar only, then warm ups with 135lbs and 225lbs, we might do something like this…

5x50 4x65 3x70 3x80 2x85
5x50 4x65 3x73 2x85 2x90
5x50 4x68 3x80 2x90 1x95
5x50 4x68 3x85 1x95 1x102

We don't do a lot of singles, and we try to get over 90% at least once or twice each week. The lower reps in the first few sets keep you from getting beat up. Triples and double don't really take that much of you, especially if you are careful with your accessory movements.

If we are focusing on hypertrophy, we might do something like this (similar to UT's first post)...

5x60 3x70 3x75 2x80     8 x 70    8 x 70
5x60 3x74 2x80 2x85     8 x 73    8 x 73
5x60 3x78 2x85 1x90     8 x 75    8 x 75
5x60 3x83 1x90 1x95     8 x 77    8 x 77

I don't feel that the warm ups sets do much for hypertrophy unless they are at least 8 reps per set and at least 65% of 1RM. In this second pyramid scheme, we're still doing heavy weights with a few sets >90% 1RM, so continuing to work on strength, put the primary emphasis of hypertrophy comes out in the last two sets. These sets are killer, and we don't always get our full 8 reps on the last set. We cycle back and forth between the power emphasis and the hypertrophy emphasis almost all year long.

One final caveat…we don't actually calculate out the percentages. We know roughly how much we need to bump up on each set, and round everything to 5lbs., so our percentages are not exactly as posted above. We do know what our 'stages' were from the week before and we add 5 - 10lbs. from the week before at each stage, depending on how we feel.

so if you had a athlete who needed more lower body hypertrophy u would use the 5-3-2-1-8-8? my only concern is im not sure if you have enough volume 8+ reps, in my above example it covers all spectrum 10-8-6-4-2-1-8-8 - 5 sets hypertrophy and 4 low/high level strength.

UT, I took quite a while putting together a post on what we would do if we were really focusing on posterior chain hypertrophy, and somehow I deleted the post when I was trying to preview it. It's late, so I can't redo it now, but I will reply tomorrow. Sorry…

star61 - 02 April 2007 07:06 PM

UT, I took quite a while putting together a post on what we would do if we were really focusing on posterior chain hypertrophy, and somehow I deleted the post when I was trying to preview it. It's late, so I can't redo it now, but I will reply tomorrow. Sorry…

np.

utfootball4 - 02 April 2007 05:57 PM

so if you had a athlete who needed more lower body hypertrophy u would use the 5-3-2-1-8-8? my only concern is im not sure if you have enough volume 8+ reps, in my above example it covers all spectrum 10-8-6-4-2-1-8-8 - 5 sets hypertrophy and 4 low/high level strength.

UT,

This is something that we might use for a 6-week hypertrophy phase. Normally, we only do what is essentially a bodybuilding cycle focused on hypertrophy once, maybe twice a year, usually at the beginning of a six-month macrocycle. There is a lot of volume and a lot of isolation, but that is what it takes for hypertrophy.

Here is a bullet list of things we keep in mind when doing this kind of cycleâ?¦

- choose one exercise from each letter group in a movement. i.e., on Day 1 after squats, do either front squats or step ups, but not both. Then do one of the A glute/ham lifts and the B glute/ham lift, and so on.
- volume is high, but intensity must remain as high as possible
- if feeling beat up, donâ??t reduce intensity, temporarily back off volume by dropping the B compound movement, and if necessary, one of the glute/ham isolation movements.
- if feeling really beat up and completely stalled, itâ??s time to change emphasis back to power.
- when doing 3 x 8 for hypertrophy, we don't pyramid, we use a weight that will not quite allow us to actually complete the last set of 8, so a 3 x 8 actually might look like 8, 8, 6, or 8, 7, 7. After achieveing 8, 8, 8 two consecutive workouts, move up weight.
- we only go to failure rarely, and only if feeling really strong. Instead, we try to stop one rep shy of failure. Too much failure leads to CNS overload and overtraining.
- concentric movement should be explosive, eccentric movement should be slower, something like a 1:3 or 1:4. You canâ??t do that on all lifts, but when you can, use slower the eccentric movement.

DAY 1 ME/RE(18 work sets)
Compound Movement[/B]
  A - Wide Stance Box Squats 5, 3, 3, 8, 8, 8 (5, 3, 3 very high intensity)
  B - Front Squats 8, 8, 8
  B - Step Ups 8, 8, 8
Glute/Ham Isolation
  A - Romanian Deadlifts 8, 8, 8
  A - Stiff Legged Deadlift 8, 8, 8
  B - Kneeling Glute/Ham 8, 8, 8
Quad Isolation
  A - Leg Extensions 8, 8, 8
  A - Split Squats 8, 8, 8