Elitetrack: Sport Training & Conditioning

hello all, I saw 3 dvds from him…anyone has them?worth the (small) price?I'd like to buy them..but form Italy I fear to have problem reading on dvd player.

They are excellent!  Well worth the price in my opinion.  I have all 3 discs (but one of them was faulty so I'm awaiting a replacement).  Maybe you could email and ask about the DVD compatibility concern.

eroszag - 11 September 2007 10:26 PM

hello all, I saw 3 dvds from him…anyone has them?worth the (small) price?I'd like to buy them..but form Italy I fear to have problem reading on dvd player.

I also have them.  Very good, definately worth the money.

Thank you, I'll contact him for sure.I lke Dan's work, I had the luck to receive some schooling on him by a former student coach of him…

Mike and I were discussing the following. He asked that I post it to te group for everyone's discussion.

I just watched a dvd lecture of Pfaff's. It is the Training Theory/Chronic Loading from from athletics canada.

A couple points he made.

- Stated he trains Accel 2x per week, 46-48 weeks out of the year as it is a perishable skill. Volume would not exceed 400-500m per session.

-He stated for Absolute/MaxV speed the cap would be 400-500 but I am thinking he repeated himself inadvertantly. He went on to give an example of Bruny's max volume of absolute runs as 4x60, Donovan 6x60, and occasionally for Oba 8x60 which he implied is unusual.

Giving a realistic range of 240m to 360m of MaxV training in a session.
Do you find your true MaxV volume to fall into the same range?

Obviously lesser intensity technical runs you could complete more volume.

He referred to special Speed Endurance sessions as 80-150m, however he did not go into detail on how he progresses from the start of the year through to comp. I have seen he and you (Mike) give workouts on Sat of 6x200 at an intensity that would borderline Ext/Int tempo.

Do you have any guidelines for progressing these speed end runs down from 6x200 to the 2 x 200 or 150 range?

I have seen the decreasing times/increasing rest scheme described for doing this.

And I understand later in the year/spp you will be doing speed end on Wed as well usually in the form of S-F-S which has benefits of accel, maxv, and speed end.

What an excellent coach and presenter.

Thanks for Mike and anyone elses input.

LR1400 - 02 October 2007 02:23 PM

Do you find your true MaxV volume to fall into the same range?
Almost exactly. In fact, we gradually progress out to around 7 x 60m. As with Dan, once we get in to heavy hitting speed endurance work I prescribe a range of reps and then shut people down as I see quality dropping off.

Do you have any guidelines for progressing these speed end runs down from 6x200 to the 2 x 200 or 150 range?I don't have any set guidelines really. As with Dan, the total volume stays relatively constant for a while with the rep distances getting shorter. Then we increase rest intervals with the concurrent expectation of running faster. Finally, we start dropping total volume while increasing rest interval to the point that it becomes speed / special endurance.

Mike Young - 02 October 2007 07:39 PM

Do you find your true MaxV volume to fall into the same range?
Almost exactly. In fact, we gradually progress out to around 7 x 60m. As with Dan, once we get in to heavy hitting speed endurance work I prescribe a range of reps and then shut people down as I see quality dropping off.

Do you have any guidelines for progressing these speed end runs down from 6x200 to the 2 x 200 or 150 range?I don't have any set guidelines really. As with Dan, the total volume stays relatively constant for a while with the rep distances getting shorter. Then we increase rest intervals with the concurrent expectation of running faster. Finally, we start dropping total volume while increasing rest interval to the point that it becomes speed / special endurance.

This being an approach I have not heard/read much about I was wondering if there are  markers that "signal" when it is time to start dropping volume. Are you looking for certain joint angles at certain speeds, etc.?

I believe you said you start working down to true speed endurance after one or two 4 week cycles.  It would seem that you would be doing the true speed endurance runs during spp for the indoor season, weather allowing. Would this not "lock in" speed endurance before you have maximized speed?

Dan mentioned he didn't usually get his pros until Jan so he missed a lot of these opportunities, stating that "He would have liked Donovan to do some of these longer runs during the Fall to teach rhythm and posture". I like that idea.

LR1400 - 03 October 2007 04:05 AM

This being an approach I have not heard/read much about I was wondering if there are  markers that "signal" when it is time to start dropping volume. Are you looking for certain joint angles at certain speeds, etc.?

Within a workout I just monitor speed, hip height, and when possible auto times. Over the course of the year things are a little trickier. You want to strike the balance of developing each speed quality fully and getting it all done within the confines of your competitive season. It's almost always a compromise.

LR1400 - 03 October 2007 04:05 AM

I believe you said you start working down to true speed endurance after one or two 4 week cycles.  It would seem that you would be doing the true speed endurance runs during spp for the indoor season, weather allowing. Would this not "lock in" speed endurance before you have maximized speed?

No. We don't get in to true speed endurance until early pre-comp indoors and spp outdoors.

Mike Young - 05 October 2007 09:57 AM

LR1400 - 03 October 2007 04:05 AM

This being an approach I have not heard/read much about I was wondering if there are  markers that "signal" when it is time to start dropping volume. Are you looking for certain joint angles at certain speeds, etc.?

Within a workout I just monitor speed, hip height, and when possible auto times. Over the course of the year things are a little trickier. You want to strike the balance of developing each speed quality fully and getting it all done within the confines of your competitive season. It's almost always a compromise.

LR1400 - 03 October 2007 04:05 AM

I believe you said you start working down to true speed endurance after one or two 4 week cycles.  It would seem that you would be doing the true speed endurance runs during spp for the indoor season, weather allowing. Would this not "lock in" speed endurance before you have maximized speed?

No. We don't get in to true speed endurance until early pre-comp indoors and spp outdoors.

LR1400 - 05 October 2007 10:21 AM

Do you find that the lactate producing effect of the intensive tempo limits the development of Max Str in GPP/early SPP when Max Str would be emphasized?

No not the way it's prescribed. It's the last thing in the weekly cycle and followed by a rest day so there are no negative effects. Lactate clears within a couple of hours. Also, I don't think it's the lactate that causes the interference effect you're mentioning. Lactate is one of the primary triggers of GH release so if things are planned appropriately, a little lactate shouldn't hurt max strength development by itself. I think it's more a result of the interference effect that endurance based activities can have with speed-power development. This isn't fully understood but it appears to be more neurologically and enzymatically related than just purely being about lactate. There are several articles on the site about the interference effect.

Mike Young - 05 October 2007 09:57 AM

LR1400 - 03 October 2007 04:05 AM

This being an approach I have not heard/read much about I was wondering if there are  markers that "signal" when it is time to start dropping volume. Are you looking for certain joint angles at certain speeds, etc.?

Within a workout I just monitor speed, hip height, and when possible auto times. Over the course of the year things are a little trickier. You want to strike the balance of developing each speed quality fully and getting it all done within the confines of your competitive season. It's almost always a compromise.

LR1400 - 03 October 2007 04:05 AM

I believe you said you start working down to true speed endurance after one or two 4 week cycles.  It would seem that you would be doing the true speed endurance runs during spp for the indoor season, weather allowing. Would this not "lock in" speed endurance before you have maximized speed?

No. We don't get in to true speed endurance until early pre-comp indoors and spp outdoors.

LR1400 - 08 October 2007 08:21 AM

When you work down to speed endurance in indoor pre-comp are you dropping the 6x200 type work in favor of 2x3x60 with incomplete rest for your speed endurance or continuing with the longer runs?

I choose to train through the early part of the competitive season and use it as what most would consider pre-comp type training. As such, we're using competitive efforts + possibly some additional work in place of the 6 x 200m. We do use workouts like 6 x 60m I use them more for short speed endurance with complete recoveries. I see it more as part of the progression from acceleration development to max velocity to short speed endurance. By pre-comp my short sprinters are only doing speed work and slow tempo….not too much in between.

The long sprinters do progress down to 8 x 50m w/ very short recoveries (400m "the hard way").

Mike Young - 14 October 2007 10:24 AM

LR1400 - 08 October 2007 08:21 AM

When you work down to speed endurance in indoor pre-comp are you dropping the 6x200 type work in favor of 2x3x60 with incomplete rest for your speed endurance or continuing with the longer runs?

I choose to train through the early part of the competitive season and use it as what most would consider pre-comp type training. As such, we're using competitive efforts + possibly some additional work in place of the 6 x 200m. We do use workouts like 6 x 60m I use them more for short speed endurance with complete recoveries. I see it more as part of the progression from acceleration development to max velocity to short speed endurance. By pre-comp my short sprinters are only doing speed work and slow tempo….not too much in between.

The long sprinters do progress down to 8 x 50m w/ very short recoveries (400m "the hard way").

For slow tempo are you keeping the volumes pretty low?

For the extensive tempo I generally keep the volume between 1200-2000m depending on the time of year, the rep length, and what is being done on preceding and following days.

Mike Young - 07 November 2007 05:34 PM

For the extensive tempo I generally keep the volume between 1200-2000m depending on the time of year, the rep length, and what is being done on preceding and following days.

Just curious as to the reason you don't have ext tempo earlier in the training schedule, or maybe you do, yet you have it during pre-comp?

I assumed you just kept a rotation of GS circuits for the tempo purposes.

We do extensive tempo from the very beginning…especially the long sprinters, who do it 2x / week. The short sprinters do it 1x / week.

We do tons of GS year round. The overall volume doesn't vary that much. It pretty much stays the same (+/- 10%) all year round. I just switch up the actual series of exercises and sometimes the means of execution. I kinda view the low intensity GS work as the 'glue that binds things together.' It's a critical component of my programs.