Elitetrack: Sport Training & Conditioning

Dwight Philips has really kinda been stuggling since 2005…(stuck at 8.30m,) and i was watching some videos and saw some interesting things…

when he jumped 8.60m i thought he technique was near to perfect, expecially his take off range, from reach to pull back…

when watching his take off in Osaka, it was so so different to a couple of years before…

im a big beleive that the take off leg has to reach and pull back very aggresively and therefore finish very high and far back behind the athletes butt…during the 8.60m pic you can clearly see this…Angles of his take off leg and free leg are totally different, and this is as far back as his take off leg goes on the 8.20m jump in Osaka, which would suggest he didnt use his glutes or hamstrings nearly as much as he did on the 8.60m one…

i think this is the key to a good take off at speed…

thoughts?

Perhaps similar to andrew howe´s rushing we discussed before? Take a look at his free leg arm (left).

Crazyhops,

You never ever want reach when planting the take off leg. The goal is to keep those front side distances at a minimum. Dwight Phillips is struggling mightly with his penultimate step. He has a history of being inconsistent in setting up his jump.

Novice,

Crazyhops, I believe is refering to the extension of the leg (reach) and then to pull back.  AND then plant the take off leg.  This is much more active and promotes use of the whole leg rather than relying on concentric strength alone… so you get eccentric and concentric… wow… two is better than one.  Try it for yourself and see Novice.

Other than that, I agree with crazyhops that dwight phillips doesn’t quite do what he used to.

yeah agent, thats exactly what i was saying…you can not plant your take off leg directly underneath and expect to get any height, it is essential to plant forward of centre of gravity and pull back very aggresively with a very stiff leg…

i thought these pics demonstrated take off very well…hope dwight gets it right…

Novice, your coach definitely taught you in-correctly…

I also believe your takeoff leg needs to be slightly in front of your COM to get lift.  I am not sure if you can actually pull and plant though.  If you watch long jumpers in frame by frame you will notice that going off the penultimate onto their takeoff foot you see the quads flexed and not the hamstring which tell me they are not pulling but letting gravity do the work for them.  That is just what I have seen.  I tried looking at the video of him from this past weekend but couldnt find it.  Can you please provide a link?

There is no way that one can actively pull and create the vertical lift necessary to long jump optimally.  The hamstrings actually would prevent an active pull through.  As tkaberna pointed out a plant in front of the COM allows gravity to assist you in the jump as much as the strength of leg allows.  In fact of all athletes I see competing in the long jump these are the second most inconsistent just behind those who practice hitch kicking and don’t have the forward rotation for it to be of any use in their jumps when cued upon to do an active pull through. 

To me the statement of “an active pull with a stiff leg” has two actions which conflict one another.  Here is why, the penultimate step should create an increase in gct for force production and translation of horizontal velocity to vertical velocity of the COM.  An active pull through may increase gct, but brake the athlete and inhibit horizontal velocity to vertical velocity of COM.  A stiff leg is definitely needed otherwise there will be excessive collapse in the gct phase of the penultimate step which would again inhibit the translation of velocity and you would lose horizontal velocity without translating it to vertical velocity.  This type of collapse and slowing is often accompanied by the symptom of having an active pull through.

To make this long story short, an effective long jump utilizes elastic and eccentric force production more so than concentric force production.  An active pull is a concentric action, a mostly passive pull is an elastic and/or eccentric initiated action. One of the best general purpose practices I have with jumpers in the winter time is doing layups playing basketball as most people naturally do a correct penultimate step while performing them.  The motor control in the brain is a beautiful thing don’t waste it by confusing things via the action-language bridge.

Also, don’t criticize Novice’s coach he wasn’t taught anything incorrectly and those pics are as about as good as a can of gasoline to a stranded cyclist in the middle of death valley.

dbandre - 05 June 2008 06:46 PM

Also, don’t criticize Novice’s coach he wasn’t taught anything incorrectly and those pics are as about as good as a can of gasoline to a stranded cyclist in the middle of death valley.

I concur.
Btw, who needs height?  I see countless coaches preaching LJ height to kids who get bombed by my guys who run real fast and get about 12” of height.

maybe by teaching height you are teaching a proper penultimate, if you taught kids just to burn down the runway they would just run off the board?

lol….

who needs height? seriously?

you tell me how many people can actually run 11m/s ? ? ? ?

There are more than one way to jump 8m, and for virtually everyone, that means getting height…like i said unless, you are incredibly fast…

J moore, from the UK, not fast at all, but gets more height than anyone i know, and jumps 8m, but doesnt run 10m/s on the runway…

Novice, said, you never want to react when planting your take off leg, this is wrong, someone must have taught him wrong? no?

And the “active pull back with a stiff leg” was something taught by Pete Stanley, among others…and is obvious that it works, but is also hard to do. You have to pull down and back, and without a stiff leg, speed is lost, as you said. I’ve jumped a million times, and watch more videos, it is how to take off the best, its also obvious when watching many of the top jumpers in the world, so im so sure how its “impossible” to do…I’m talking about when the take off foot is planted, then a very active pull down and back is needed…

And the pics, lol…those pics show the point i was trying to make with this, that DP’s take off leg was much more active back then, you can CLEARLY see by those pics, that the range was much greater on his good jump compared to his average jump.

He’s in the air in those pics!!! and those pics are worthless.  His range of motion would be a symptom of spatial-temporal issues and the previous steps in his approach and not an active pull through. 

you cannot have a stiff leg and pull through actively.  Stiffness is produced via co-contraction and isometric contraction and a pull wouldn’t allow enough of a co-contraction of the muscles crossing the hip to produce the stiffness you are talking about their, because stiffness at the knee would be compromised with the hamstrings losing most of your elastic energy return.  I know you are talking about when the foot is planted.  What you are describing is impossible, so you must mean something else.

when u determine someones take off angle…their leg is straight…ill get a pic later…therefore it is possible..

and those pics shown what I WAS trying to discuss…that his kick back was very active on the 8.60m and wasnt on the 8.20m. (how aggressively his take off leg goes back and up to his butt, get me? the more aggressive this is, the more aggressive his pull back AT TAKE OFF was…

ill be back with the pic later..

Crazyhops,

“Actively” reaching in the take off to facilitate the pull will hurt your jumps big time. Your take off leg is already in front of your COG naturally at that point…the athlete only causes more damage by trying to add to that distance.

Also the leg finishing high behind the body is simply feedback. One does not have to artificially create it.

reaching? i said the take off leg has to be out in front of you at take off and NOT directly underneath you…there is an eliment of reach and pull back, but not reach more than you need to. If you contact directly underneath you, you can not get any pull or push, just push will get you no height at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eImRuqr1D-w

this vid really shows everything i was talking about, but he doesnt do this anymore…which was my point!

Yes I am serious in my comments.  Maybe Tom Tellez knows something you don’t in regards to Dwight P’s technique.