Elitetrack: Sport Training & Conditioning

We are on the same page, except for the “...there is an eliment of reach and pull back” part. Pushing up is enough.

crazyhops - 06 June 2008 04:54 AM

reaching? i said the take off leg has to be out in front of you at take off and NOT directly underneath you…there is an eliment of reach and pull back, but not reach more than you need to. If you contact directly underneath you, you can not get any pull or push, just push will get you no height at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eImRuqr1D-w

this vid really shows everything i was talking about, but he doesnt do this anymore…which was my point!

That take off occured with his foot directly under his COM??  If you can jump forwards with your jumping leg in contact with the ground in front of you, then you are amazing! 

You don’t reach to get your foot to contact in front of your COM, you lower your COM to cause the foot to make contact in front of your com.  This creates a longer ground contact time and creates the large amplitude in hip (COM) oscillation to create a big jump. There is no active pulling in 8.6m jump.

mortac which comment? the height one? are you saying his coach tells him not to get height? If you look at his best jumps, 8.59, 8.60, 8.60, he gets considerably more height on them than his other jumps…

And Dbandre, im sorry but i just disagree, i’m a long jumper at an OK level at the moment, and i know how important it is to my jumps, plus I SEE IT in the video, and sure as hell feel it when i get it right myself…his take off on the 8.60m was completly different to the Osaka 8.20m one in the final round. His intitial ground contact on his take off was not underneath him, and many jumpers try to make the initial contact underneath them directly, and i said this wasnt correct…

His take off angle was different, his penultimate was different, his knee drive was different, his follow thru with his take off leg was different, and the distance was very different…

apparently you are looking at a different video, because he takes off with his foot directly underneath his COM!

but that wasnt where is first contact was made at take off was made…

“His intitial ground contact on his take off was not underneath him” thats what i said…INITIAL…

and you’ll also find that the position he’s in when he actually leaves the ground is quite far behind his COG, which is excellent…on his worse jumps, neither is very true…

dbandre,

Do you not know how to use hip extension when long jumping?  Crazyhops is refering to extending the knee and actively using hip extension as the primary force producing action in the inital takeoff.  (thus pull back)  There is a push, but first comes the active pull back.  This pull back does aid in using the whole leg to jump far, not just jumping up bending the knee and using the quads mainly and calf muscles (this is what I understand from your posts thus far).  What do you coach or use yourself? 

Novice,
Pushing up is not enough.  Pushing up cause too much excess knee bend and you would not be using your hip at all of jumping, but the quadricep… thus a quad jumper.  Pushing up would be enough if you can run 10.7 for 100m though.  In my experience a lot of jumpers can not run that fast and neither can a lot of college jumpers… so to get them to jump their best they need to learn to use the whole leg and the whole body to jump far or even run fast.

yeah, your picking up on it..the glute muscle is very powerful and many people dont use it well on take off, by doing what we’ve discussed the take off is much more powerful and horizontal V is maintained better also…

you pull, then push down and back as far as possible really..and trust at great speed its very hard to do, most people hit the board and then leave the board with no penetration at all because they dont try to use their entire leg, and instead just bend the knee and use quad and hamstring alone…

agentwinburn8604 - 06 June 2008 10:27 AM

dbandre,
In my experience a lot of jumpers can not run that fast and neither can a lot of college jumpers… so to get them to jump their best they need to learn to use the whole leg and the whole body to jump far or even run fast.

To get them to jump their best they need to learn to run fast.  I see a lot of really good triple jumpers who are really poor long jumpers because they have no jets.
I used to have calculations (looking for them) showing that in order to jump 7m you only need about 10” to 12” of lift (depending on your body structure/height) if you takeoff around 10m/s.

That is true, but mechanics and running fast go hand in hand.

agentwinburn8604 - 06 June 2008 10:46 AM

That is true, but mechanics and running fast go hand in hand.

You would be surprised the improvements in speed that can be achieved with no mechanics focus.  Train them so they are capable (strength/mobility) of running with correct mechanics and they often will.

I am actually being suprised now.  What you might be refering to is what Dr. Yessis has done and published (strength/mobility of running with correct mechanics… strength in joint actions specifically as the occur in running or sprinting).  I agree again that is most ideal with no mechanics focus.

nick, are you refering to some king of pull as seen in markov triple jumping (in which he is pulling with his jump leg still high and front in the air) or a pull that starts after the foot has striken the ground?

after the foot has hit the baord yes…then very actively backwards, just like Markov does…

Well, i just remembered having seen this picture on the net, it´s mike powell   (sorry for the image size)

he does exactly what you say

wish i knew how to put pics on here like that, because there are many examples are jumper who do it..but my point was, not all do, and during Dwights lesser jumps, he doesnt do it nearly as well as his better ones…