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How important is strength for speed?
Posted: 11 October 2008 08:27 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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General full body strength, lower body strength, how important is it for speed in general. Top speed and acceleration.

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Posted: 11 October 2008 09:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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I think it’s VERY important for the first 10m and then gets progressively less important through top end speed. If you’re looking for direct correlates that will go across individuals you won’t have much luck but generally I find at least in my programs as people get stronger they generally get faster as well, especially over distances 100m and under.

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Posted: 11 October 2008 09:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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This leads me to this then, sprinter nathan riva here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na0iV17gMqs  (lane 5, white guy)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD5zhRW6BeQ


He could ass to ground squat 420 at the time of the video, being in grade 12 (18 years old) and ran 10.67 PB. Year before he ran 10.8, however in grade 9 and 10 he ran 11.7-11.9. So basically cut about a second off his time from grade 10 to 11, because according to him was due to increase in concentration of time spent workng his legs.

Here’s a workout he’s shown for his squats:

5x10,10,8,6,1 + 20 rep burn out set (said this burnout set is key)


He can also bench press 330 for one rep.

Anyways for this guy, whos a football star, he didnt spend much time working on his track stuff, just did the couple months of school track training and beat all the other “black guys” who are supposedly more talented considering they were running faster at a younger age, and did it all cause he worked his legs a lot.

Whats are your thoughts?

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Posted: 11 October 2008 09:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Sorry…I think my first post was misleading. I think training the legs is EXTREMELY important. I guess I just misinterpreted your post to be one of the several hundred we’ve had that are basically asking for strength gain:track time performance increments. More important than sheer numbers when training lower body is the stimulus. The weight room can provide a controlled opportunity to apply a quantitatively assessed high intensity training load that makes planning training and controlling competition readiness easier and also provides a stimulus that can be built upon on the track.

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Posted: 11 October 2008 09:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Mike Young - 11 October 2008 09:49 PM

Sorry…I think my first post was misleading. I think training the legs is EXTREMELY important. I guess I just misinterpreted your post to be one of the several hundred we’ve had that are basically asking for strength gain:track time performance increments. More important than sheer numbers when training lower body is the stimulus. The weight room can provide a controlled opportunity to apply a quantitatively assessed high intensity training load that makes planning training and controlling competition readiness easier and also provides a stimulus that can be built upon on the track.

Makes sense to me smile

Now about that dude in my post above, how do you think its possible for a decently talented sprinter to cut a second off his 100m time from 11s to 10s, in a single year off of doing only strength training and no actual planned sprint training, just some random high school track work.

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Posted: 11 October 2008 10:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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....maturation..late bloomer…i dont know…ive seen people do similar w/o wieghts…his form was pretty good….what was his progression in the squats….i know people that have improved in their squat but not see improvements on the track

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Posted: 11 October 2008 10:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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I think what you have is the classic example of a “late bloomer”.  I don’t weight training in and of itself mattered as much as his applying high intensity training at a time when his hormone production was at its highest point in his life to go along with a growth spurt.  If he had well rounded motor abilities and was running 11.7ish as someone who was not near the end of physical maturity then entirely plausible and not out of the question.  However, if he was already physically mature then it’s entirely suspect.

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Posted: 11 October 2008 10:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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dbandre - 11 October 2008 10:12 PM

I think what you have is the classic example of a “late bloomer”.  I don’t weight training in and of itself mattered as much as his applying high intensity training at a time when his hormone production was at its highest point in his life to go along with a growth spurt.  If he had well rounded motor abilities and was running 11.7ish as someone who was not near the end of physical maturity then entirely plausible and not out of the question.  However, if he was already physically mature then it’s entirely suspect.

I got interested in this and looked into it, according to himself and other people around him, he was not a late bloomer. He said before this he didnt give as much specific attention to his legs and wasnt dedicated daily to weights. He didnt grow a lot from grade 10 to 11 when he made his huge speed gains.

Also takes purple K creatine if it makes a difference.

Now I should mention drug rumours about him and all, but talked to some guy who ran on his relay team and he was 5’8 in grade 10 and 5’11 in grade 12, and steroids fully stunt your growth, correct? Therefore a 3 inch increase in height should negate any drug rumours.

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Posted: 11 October 2008 10:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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and started working out in grade 7

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Posted: 11 October 2008 10:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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He was still physically maturing.  You cannot grow 3 inches in a 2 year span and be physically matured.  Some people can still mature well into their mid to late 20s, but those are outliers.  Most males have a 3-6 year period of maturation from 14-15 years onward most of which is related to increase testosterone and GH production.

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Posted: 11 October 2008 10:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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Then why doesnt this maturation lead to increaese in speed in all the other sprinters in high school? I mean why is there only one exception? In ontario, canada, there are a huge number of sprinters, and this dude was a exception, there must be something more to it than physical maturation.

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Posted: 11 October 2008 10:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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trackspeedboy - 11 October 2008 10:35 PM

Then why doesnt this maturation lead to increaese in speed in all the other sprinters in high school? I mean why is there only one exception? In ontario, canada, there are a huge number of sprinters, and this dude was a exception, there must be something more to it than physical maturation.

This maturation leads to increases in speed all the time.  I was the same way in hs from my jr to sr year i went 12.3 - 11.4, didnt grow very much but the body was still maturing.  Another time I took a semester off of school when i was 19 and did a meet after not training at all and got a high jump PR of over three inches.  I would say most high school sprinters increase in performance is due to maturation because in my experience there are not a ton of great hs track coaches and even less in the strength department.

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Posted: 11 October 2008 11:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Heres my point.

Other sprinters in the video I showed you all improved a few tenths from the previous year or even less, meanwhile ONE guy improves so much. Go back another year and same case. Go back 5 years and once again sprinters improve just a few tenths year to year or even a lot less. Usually around here we dont see sprinters jump levels of performance from decent to the best in a single year…

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Posted: 11 October 2008 11:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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trackspeedboy - 11 October 2008 11:04 PM

Heres my point.

Other sprinters in the video I showed you all improved a few tenths from the previous year or even less, meanwhile ONE guy improves so much. Go back another year and same case. Go back 5 years and once again sprinters improve just a few tenths year to year or even a lot less. Usually around here we dont see sprinters jump levels of performance from decent to the best in a single year…

And my point is that at the high school level around the world it happens very often.  Even if he grew a few inches that means his stride length could have gotten longer and increased his speed that way.  No doubt getting stronger also helped him get faster, but him getting that fast in a year at that age level is not anything I haven’t seen happen many times.

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Posted: 12 October 2008 01:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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trackspeedboy - 11 October 2008 10:35 PM

Then why doesnt this maturation lead to increaese in speed in all the other sprinters in high school? I mean why is there only one exception? In ontario, canada, there are a huge number of sprinters, and this dude was a exception, there must be something more to it than physical maturation.

For the most part “late bloomers” are weeded out of the system in almost sports by the time they are juniors in high school.  In track, the weeding out process is usually done by the standard, he’s not fast enough so lets move him back in distance.  When that ultimately fails for someone entering the mid to latter stages of puberty they typically drop out of the sport.  Also, his lifting routine and just “run track while in season” attitude probably helped him while living in a cold weather environment.  The reason he’s an exception is just as likely he was so determined not to be weeded out of the system and persistent in what he wanted to do and when he physically caught up to everyone he’s better than them because he had to work harder when he was younger.

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Posted: 13 October 2008 01:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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I am 18, tall and shlanky, a “late bloomer”.
Last year for my 16-step LJ app I used 96 feet, this year and after getting my squat 1RM from arround 75kg to arround 95kg I am using 120 ft and it’s always getting longer. My stride length has become ridicously longer.
My 100m pb was 11.8h, I now believe I may even be able to run under 11.0h.
So for me a discrete increase in strength led to a huge increase of speed, although I bettered my mechanics a lot.

On the other hand I have a training partner who has increased his squat by a larger margin than me, but he has just improved by .2 in the 100 (11.6>11.4). He has been always fast, as a kid extremelly fast, but his improvement curve has stagnated.

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