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creatine
Posted: 29 June 2004 12:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]  
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I am a triple jumper and have tried creatine on and off numerous times. I found it made me heavy legged, thirsty all the time and while showing a distinct improvement in how I looked following a weights session, it actually didn't improve my jumping at all! I've found taking the creatine for around 4 weeks then laying off it a week prior to peaking for a competition worked best for me.

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Posted: 05 July 2004 08:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]  
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I have a couple more questions regarding creatine:

1) Do you HAVE to load on it?  Could you take the maintenance doses only and still see benefits?

2) How long do you "maintain" before you stop usage?  Then how long after that do you restart your cycle? 

3) Should you use other supplements when using creatine, especially if using it post-workout?  I want to use it only pre and post workout on maintenance doses, but should I still use whey post-workout if using creatine? 

I think that's it...for now LOL  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks…

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Posted: 05 July 2004 08:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]  
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I found this on the web and it may be useful to you.

Article #1
To answer the first part of your question, yes I believe that creatine should be taken in amounts based upon one's bodyweight. Studies I have performed with my athletes indicate that when loading with creatine, an athlete should take an amount equal to .35g/kg of bodyweight and to maintain creatine stores in the muscle, .15g/kg should be used. Taking creatine in this manner allows for people to consume an amount that meets their own physical needs and maximizes the performance and physique related benefits creatine monohydrate has to offer.

Regarding creatine monohydrate cycles, the current recommendation of loading with creatine for 5 days followed by an indefinite period of maintenance leaves a lot to be desired. First of all, people following this recommendation do not know when or if they should either reload or stop taking creatine at any time and are more than likely wasting both creatine and their money by using to much over an extended period of time. Through a great deal of trial and error with my athletes, I have found it to be more effective to load with creatine, maintain creatine stores for a specific amount of time and then cycling off of creatine prior to performing another loading phase. Outlined below is the cycle that I have found to be most beneficial.

Week 1 (Loading Phase): .35g/kg of bodyweight per day. Divide total daily dosage into 5 doses.

Weeks 2-4 (Maintenance Phase): .15g/kg bodyweight per day.

Week 5: Off

Week 6 (Re-Load): Repeat loading phase using .35g/kg bodyweight per day.

Week 7 (Maintenance): .15/kg bodyweight per day.

Weeks 8-10: Off

This method of creatine cycling allows the user to fully load their muscle cells with creatine, maintain these stores and then take advantage of the partial depletion of creatine that will occur during the off week prior to performing another loading phase. This should allow for athletes to fully adapt to the short-term gains obtained from the loading phase and also obtain continual benefits from each creatine cycle they perform.

Article #2

What is Creatine?
Creatine monohydrate, commonly known as creatine, is a dietary supplement that athletes, body builders in particular, use to increase high intensity exercise performance and body mass. Creatine is also a natural substance found in the human body and the bodies of most animals. Skeletal muscle is the richest store of creatine monohydrate, with about 95% of the body's creatine supply, and the remaining 5% is stored in other parts of the body. Most of the human body's creatine comes from dietary ingestion. In fact, skeletal muscle is not only the largest store for creatine, it is also the richest natural source of the substance. Thus steak, for example, which is skeletal muscle, is rich in creatine monohydrate. Often when dietary consumption is insufficient to meet the requirements of the body, it is synthesized in the liver from three amino acids, arginine, glycine and methionine. The pancreas and the kidneys also synthesise a small amount of creatine when necessary.

The benefits of creatine monohydrate were recognised when a high degree of correlation between muscular creatine content and muscular activity was found in animals. It was noticed that wild animals had much higher creatine monohydrate levels than animals in captivity. Later, theories were postulated regarding increased muscular activity and availability of creatine to the human body. With the development of synthetic chemical production, creatine production for enhancing physical performance came about. Prior to this advance, creatine was either extracted from the urine of animals, or removed from skeletal tissue. However, these methods were extremely expensive, laborious and finally yielded very little creatine. Once synthetic production was invented, creatine was freely available for widespread u
se by athletes and for undergoing investigation. Creatine is now available as the monohydrate salt, which means that attached to a molecule is one molecule of water, for greater stability.

Dr. Eric Hultman, conducting a study at Karolinska Institute in Sweden, was first to clearly demonstrate an effect of creatine monohydrate in humans. Dr. Hultman found that taking a fixed dosage 20 grams of creatine monohydrate daily for less than a week increased creatine content in muscle fibres by almost 20%. An increase of this degree is more than adequate to provide a noticeable boost to exercise performance during sustained bursts of effort, as well as short strenuous periods of exercise. This observation meant that creatine would benefit both sprinters and endurance athletes alike. An interesting observation to note here is that the year this study was made public, 1992, was the same year that the British track team performed spectacularly well. Their success was attributed to the use of creatine, which was part rumour, and part truth.

Benefits of Creatine Monohydrate Use
Each cell in the body requires energy to perform various life functions. This energy is stored in the cell in the form of phosphate bonds in molecules of adenosine tri-phosphate, or ATP. When a cell undertakes an activity of some sort, say, muscular contraction, it uses up this energy to do so. ATP loses a phosphate bond and is converted to adenosine di-phosphate, or ADP. ADP contains relatively less energy than does ATP, so, in this form, it is useless to the cell.

This is where creatine comes in; it takes on a phosphate group to become phosphocreatine, or PCr. In this form, it is able to donate its phosphate group to the spent ADP, and convert it back to ATP. The muscles now have more fuel to burn, and this enhances performance.

Lactic acid build-up is an issue with many endurance athletes, and excess lactic acid causes fatigue. It is thought that creatine helps buffer lactic acid build-up, and this would be a great advantage to endurance athletes. With extra creatine in the muscles, one can push oneself harder at a workout, and the result is greater fitness and greater muscle mass.

Little wonder, then, that creatine is the best selling sports supplement of all time. With a combination of slick marketing techniques and proven benefits, creatine supplements are ingested by many professional and amateur athletes, and many high school athletes are experimenting with it as well. In 1998 alone, over $200 million worth of creatine products were sold around the world. It's immense popularity only goes to show that it indeed does deliver benefits to athletes. Creatine provides a major boost for short explosive activity, and is extremely beneficial to sprinters and weight lifters. It has been noticed that creatine supplements allow weight lifters to do more reps, sets or weights before fatigue sets in. A sprinter's muscles slip more easily into action with creatine.

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Posted: 06 July 2004 12:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]  
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Don't load, just take 3g/day pre or post workout. You will achieve the same muscle creatine concentrations. The buzz about creatine now is that loading is a waste of money.

I wouldn't drop the whey/carbs in favor of creatine. If you can afford both there's no reason you couldn't mix your creatine in with your whey/carbs for pwo.

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Posted: 06 July 2004 12:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]  
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Ok then, could I take creatine pre AND post workout and be OK, or is that a waste as well?

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Posted: 06 July 2004 01:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]  
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Personally I think 6g/day would be excessive. I'm not exactly sure about the advantages/disadvantages of taking it pre vs. post workout. I always took it post, but customer support at bsl seems to recommend it pre workout as part of a 'buffer complex'.

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Posted: 06 July 2004 09:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]  
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6g a day excessive?  Dang, that's the "maintenance" dose recommended by most companies for their individual product.  Hmm...Maybe I'll try it just one or the other for awhile and see what happens.  My big thing is that taking it pre-workout, is that going to still reap the size-gain benefits?

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Posted: 06 July 2004 10:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]  
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"I usually recommend 3-5g per day (1 teaspoon), every day â?? dissolved in a warm beverage like green tea. Using this amount of creatine should increase power output by about 10%. This means heavier loads in the gym, more explosive lifts, and increased athletic performance. For older folk, this means more daily functional capacity. Since 3-5g per day is a rather modest dose, water retention, cramping, etc. isn't an issue (cramping isn't usually an issue even at higher doses). With all the fancy creatine supplements out there, a lot of people have forgotten about simple, powdered creatine. But thatâ??s all we use with our clients."

Berardi, John. "JB Approved Supplements." JohnBerardi.com. 7 May 2004. Sciencelink.  <http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/reviews/supplements.htm>

Keep in mind the size gain isn't associated with strength gain, so much as it is cell volumization.  Also, as Mike mentioned previously in this thread, this response to creatine varies based on the individual.

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Posted: 06 July 2004 10:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]  
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6g a day isn't escessive at all.  You want to take it post workout because you're depleted of your creatine storage, so you take it after you workout and it will carry through to the following day.  I've taken creatine for over 6 years.  I've got an idea of how the protocol works.  Take the creatine with Grape Juice.

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Posted: 06 July 2004 01:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]  
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Water gain in the cells serve as a great means to help with travel and dehydration.....

Creatine can be taken in 2gram doses three times a day and seems not to create that "hydro" pull. Some athletes have responded to the small dose protocols and others explode. Also the more you hydrate without the creatine the smoother the integration. This is just observation and experimental with my own use in college and athletes that are out of college.

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MYONOVA

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Posted: 06 July 2004 02:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]  
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Danny - I'm assuming you don't take all 6 grams right after the workout, or do you?

Phoenix - 2g, 3x's daily.  When would you consume each dose?  And isn't 2g a pain to measure out?

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Posted: 06 July 2004 03:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]  
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I take a teaspoon 5g after I'm done working out and lifting

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Posted: 06 July 2004 07:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]  
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So 10g a day when doing 2 workouts a day?

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Posted: 06 July 2004 08:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]  
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No, 5g after the entire session.

Workout, lift then take creatine.

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Posted: 06 July 2004 08:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]  
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OK, got ya.  Thanks.

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