so if you had a athlete who needed more lower body hypertrophy u would use the 5-3-2-1-8-8? my only concern is im not sure if you have enough volume 8+ reps, in my above example it covers all spectrum 10-8-6-4-2-1-8-8 - 5 sets hypertrophy and 4 low/high level strength.
UT,
This is something that we might use for a 6-week hypertrophy phase. Normally, we only do what is essentially a bodybuilding cycle focused on hypertrophy once, maybe twice a year, usually at the beginning of a six-month macrocycle. There is a lot of volume and a lot of isolation, but that is what it takes for hypertrophy.
Here is a bullet list of things we keep in mind when doing this kind of cycleâ?¦
- choose one exercise from each letter group in a movement. i.e., on Day 1 after squats, do either front squats or step ups, but not both. Then do one of the A glute/ham lifts and the B glute/ham lift, and so on.
- volume is high, but intensity must remain as high as possible
- if feeling beat up, donâ??t reduce intensity, temporarily back off volume by dropping the B compound movement, and if necessary, one of the glute/ham isolation movements.
- if feeling really beat up and completely stalled, itâ??s time to change emphasis back to power.
- when doing 3 x 8 for hypertrophy, we don't pyramid, we use a weight that will not quite allow us to actually complete the last set of 8, so a 3 x 8 actually might look like 8, 8, 6, or 8, 7, 7. After achieveing 8, 8, 8 two consecutive workouts, move up weight.
- we only go to failure rarely, and only if feeling really strong. Instead, we try to stop one rep shy of failure. Too much failure leads to CNS overload and overtraining.
- concentric movement should be explosive, eccentric movement should be slower, something like a 1:3 or 1:4. You canâ??t do that on all lifts, but when you can, use slower the eccentric movement.
DAY 1 ME/RE(18 work sets) Compound Movement[/B]
A - Wide Stance Box Squats 5, 3, 3, 8, 8, 8 (5, 3, 3 very high intensity)
B - Front Squats 8, 8, 8
B - Step Ups 8, 8, 8 Glute/Ham Isolation
A - Romanian Deadlifts 8, 8, 8
A - Stiff Legged Deadlift 8, 8, 8
B - Kneeling Glute/Ham 8, 8, 8 Quad Isolation
A - Leg Extensions 8, 8, 8
A - Split Squats 8, 8, 8
DAY 2 DE/RE(18 work sets) Compound Movement (26 work sets)
A - Wide Stance Box Squats 6 x 2 (60%1RM, very explosive concentric)
B - Wide Stance Machine Squats 8, 8, 8 Glute/Ham Isolation
A - Good Mornings 8, 8, 8
B - Glute/Ham Raise 8, 8, 8
B - Standing Machine Leg Curl 8, 8, 8 Quad Isolation
A - Split Squats 8, 8, 8
A - Lunges 8, 8, 8
Thereâ??s more stuff to discuss, but Iâ??ll stop there. Iâ??m happy to discuss proâ??s and conâ??s of this cycleâ?¦Iâ??m always looking to improve things.
first thing what do u mean by 18 working sets etc? in a hypertrophy phase my second day wouldnt be explosive squat but more something like this:
iso squat 3-4x25-40sec 50-65%
Rev lunges 3x15
rev hypers 4x10-15
ball ham lifts 4x10-15
fri:
heavy fsq
lite bsq
spilt squat
rev hypers
ball ham lifts
Working sets don't include warm ups. We try to keep a workout between 15 and 20 sets during hypertrophy.
All of your splits look like fine to me. The key is to do a big compound movement or two, then isolate the muscles you need to grow. Keep sets between 15 and 20, and reps from 8 -10 per set.
Star,
Do your guys who have filled their weight class do a hypertrophy phase?
You could classify the early weeks in my cycles as hypertrophy, but I don't really think of it that way.
Depends on the lifter and how much fat their carrying. My guys are between 198 and 220. The 198 guys are very lean, one extremely lean. They hypertrophy whiile trying to reduce fat (no cardio, just diet, but it's tought to do hypertrophy and diet). The 220 guy really runs around 240, so he does not do a hypertrophy phase like this, ever. Our hypertrophy focus during most cycles or waves is done after strength with accessory lifts, and not nearly so many.
Everyone does hypertrophy to some degree all year, but as I wrote earlier, we only do this full blown hypertrophy once or twice a year, and then only if the lifter is at or near (within 15lbs. of ) their weight class.
By work sets, I mean all sets other than warm ups. We only warm up before the first compound movement. In addition to what's listed, we might do a couple sets of free squats, a set with just the bar, a set with 135 and a set with 225, and a set with 315. We don't consider these 'work' sets, because the reps are too low (3-5) to count for hypertrophy and the weight is too light to count as strength work, so they are counted as warm up sets.
For pure posterior chain hypertrophy, we try to keep work sets between 15 and 20 sets. When doing a normal powerlifting wave, even if we are in a hypertrophy emphasis, we do a lot less volume, but higher intensity. For strength/powerllifting emphasis we do even less volume, but maximum intensity.
and why dym day during a hypertrophy phase, if your athlete need hypertrophy work then they shouldnt be during dym box squats etc??
Since strength/power is everyone's ultimate goal in our little group (none of the kids are interested in bodybuilding, (just powerlifting, football or track) we always do at least a few Max Effort movements on ME day, and always do some ballistic/dynamic squats on DE day, even if in a pure hypertrophy phase. This is because if you focus exclusively on hypertrophy, even though it will provide the baasis for future strength improvement, doing so can actually cause you to regress in strength/power if you don't do some ME and DE work along with the hypertrophy.
This is the primary definition of what Lou Simmons calls 'conjugate training'. Many WSB folllowers believe that Western Periodization/Progression, where a lifter goes through two or three completely distinct phases, hypertrophy, strength, and power, actually limits your strength gains because your strength/power regresses during the hypertrophy phase, and your gains in muscle mass are not preserved during the lower rep power phase. Therefore, they train for mass, strength and power all the time, even if the emphasis might shift from hypertrophy to strength to power during a specific minicycle.
By work sets, I mean all sets other than warm ups. We only warm up before the first compound movement. In addition to what's listed, we might do a couple sets of free squats, a set with just the bar, a set with 135 and a set with 225, and a set with 315. We don't consider these 'work' sets, because the reps are too low (3-5) to count for hypertrophy and the weight is too light to count as strength work, so they are counted as warm up sets.
For pure posterior chain hypertrophy, we try to keep work sets between 15 and 20 sets. When doing a normal powerlifting wave, even if we are in a hypertrophy emphasis, we do a lot less volume, but higher intensity. For strength/powerllifting emphasis we do even less volume, but maximum intensity.
and why dym day during a hypertrophy phase, if your athlete need hypertrophy work then they shouldnt be during dym box squats etc??
Since strength/power is everyone's ultimate goal in our little group (none of the kids are interested in bodybuilding, (just powerlifting, football or track) we always do at least a few Max Effort movements on ME day, and always do some ballistic/dynamic squats on DE day, even if in a pure hypertrophy phase. This is because if you focus exclusively on hypertrophy, even though it will provide the baasis for future strength improvement, doing so can actually cause you to regress in strength/power if you don't do some ME and DE work along with the hypertrophy.
This is the primary definition of what Lou Simmons calls 'conjugate training'. Many WSB folllowers believe that Western Periodization/Progression, where a lifter goes through two or three completely distinct phases, hypertrophy, strength, and power, actually limits your strength gains because your strength/power regresses during the hypertrophy phase, and your gains in muscle mass are not preserved during the lower rep power phase. Therefore, they train for mass, strength and power all the time, even if the emphasis might shift from hypertrophy to strength to power during a specific minicycle.
bro i still dont see 26 work sets?
DAY 2 DE/RE(18 work sets)
Compound Movement (26 work sets)
A - Wide Stance Box Squats 6 x 2 (60%1RM, very explosive concentric)
B - Wide Stance Machine Squats 8, 8, 8
Glute/Ham Isolation
A - Good Mornings 8, 8, 8
B - Glute/Ham Raise 8, 8, 8
B - Standing Machine Leg Curl 8, 8, 8
Quad Isolation
A - Split Squats 8, 8, 8
A - Lunges 8, 8, 8
i understand the conjugate method but i think the westside guys has a great point about during speed work too early esp if they are skinny and weak.
I've used the pyramid scheme before. Mostly in my early teen muscle & fitness reading days. I think it could work fine for beginners, athletes in GPP / SPP, or those needing some hypertrophy.
Other than those circumstances I'd probably never use such a routine. Even when 'saving effort' on the 10, 8, 6 sets you're surely still inducing some fatigue that would affect the heavier (and more important?) sets. Also, the loads on those early sets are such that they really only challenge on the last 2-3 reps. This makes generation of maximal force very difficult.
I much prefer to keep rep ranges relatively static (changing only a little within the entire workout for a given exercise) and upping the load with each set. If speed of movement is emphasized, this allows the athlete to work a broader range of the force-velocity spectrum and in so doing make each set an "important" one. This is because the rep ranges are low enough to minimize fatigue and because speed of movement is emphasized the load doesn't necessarily correlate with the training stimulus intensity. Also, the lower rep ranges tend to promote neuromuscular efficiency without hypertrophy and this is the holy grail of most sports.
I've used the pyramid scheme before. Mostly in my early teen muscle & fitness reading days. I think it could work fine for beginners, athletes in GPP / SPP, or those needing some hypertrophy.
Other than those circumstances I'd probably never use such a routine. Even when 'saving effort' on the 10, 8, 6 sets you're surely still inducing some fatigue that would affect the heavier (and more important?) sets. Also, the loads on those early sets are such that they really only challenge on the last 2-3 reps. This makes generation of maximal force very difficult.
I much prefer to keep rep ranges relatively static (changing only a little within the entire workout for a given exercise) and upping the load with each set. If speed of movement is emphasized, this allows the athlete to work a broader range of the force-velocity spectrum and in so doing make each set an "important" one. This is because the rep ranges are low enough to minimize fatigue and because speed of movement is emphasized the load doesn't necessarily correlate with the training stimulus intensity. Also, the lower rep ranges tend to promote neuromuscular efficiency without hypertrophy and this is the holy grail of most sports.
As you may know we were mainly talking about sports that require some hypertrophy work for example football, I think the 10-8-6 scheme could work for advance athlete if done correctly.
I'd still prefer to keep the rep ranges lower and just load up on the sets. I've personally done and had others do 30 x 1 of major lifts (squats, cleans, DLs, BP) @ 80% on a 40s interval. Basically, it turns out to be 30 reps @ 80% in about 13 minutes. This took a while to build up to but the density is very high (which promotes some hypertrophy) but the rep-to-rest interval ratio permits use of higher loads (which promotes strength gains and when combined with the high density also promotes some hypertrophy).
I'd still prefer to keep the rep ranges lower and just load up on the sets. I've personally done and had others do 30 x 1 of major lifts (squats, cleans, DLs, BP) @ 80% on a 40s interval. Basically, it turns out to be 30 reps @ 80% in about 13 minutes. This took a while to build up to but the density is very high (which promotes some hypertrophy) but the rep-to-rest interval ratio permits use of higher loads (which promotes strength gains and when combined with the high density also promotes some hypertrophy).
lol, sounds like coach reeve during power cleans 50x1 or 50x2.
I worked under Reeve for a year when we were both at OU. He wasn't doing that at the time and I didn't know he was doing that now but my setup was an extrapolation of what I learned from him. He was very influential on my strength training setups.
I worked under Reeve for a year when we were both at OU. He wasn't doing that at the time and I didn't know he was doing that now but my setup was an extrapolation of what I learned from him. He was very influential on my strength training setups.
DAY 2 DE/RE(18 work sets)
Compound Movement (26 work sets)
Whoops, that's a typo. It's 18 work sets. I copied that from a workout I put together earlier, and it included worksets for abs and calves, bringing the total to 26. I deleted the abs and calves for this thread and listed the work sets as 18, but forgot to delete the comment about the 26 work sets. For what I posted, it's 18… you can add them up.
i understand the conjugate method but i think the westside guys has a great point about during speed work too early esp if they are skinny and weak.
Yes, if they are really skinny and weak, speed may not be as critical, but if they are speed athletes (football, soccer, track) I think you should start working it from day one.
I'd still prefer to keep the rep ranges lower and just load up on the sets. I've personally done and had others do 30 x 1 of major lifts (squats, cleans, DLs, BP) @ 80% on a 40s interval. Basically, it turns out to be 30 reps @ 80% in about 13 minutes. This took a while to build up to but the density is very high (which promotes some hypertrophy) but the rep-to-rest interval ratio permits use of higher loads (which promotes strength gains and when combined with the high density also promotes some hypertrophy).
Mike, don't you think this is a compromise born out of limited time/energy available for weights? It doesn't seem optimal for either hypertrophy or powerlifting. Although you will probably get some benefits in both areas, the intensity, 80%, is not truly high enough for maximum strength gains.
Are there other benefits, besides time and effeciency, that this routine has?
