And he told you that throwing 30-40m was hard? I can point to dozens of results of people that actually trained. I know their athletic history, their lifts, what they’re good at, etc. You can e-mail the coaches in the area if you want data. The only people that throw such poor javelin numbers are people that don’t know how to do the bare minimum coaching for it.
Ken is a great guy that has dedicated tons of time to the sport, but the same goes for him and sprinters. Talking to him, it’d seem like getting moderately athletic high school kids to 11.2 is an achievement.
you are confusing serious javelin training where an athlete can be “mildly athletic” throwing 60m and decathletes at the younger stages who if not introduced to the javelin earlier mostly struggle to throw it 50m given the training demands of the decathlon. You assume Gatlin will automatically transfer his speed into the javelin.
you and a couple of others assume that he wouldn’t have to gain weight to be a successful decathlete without looking like an amateur in the throws. This weight gain would be detrimental to overall speed and speed endurance, but likely not momentum. There is also this assumption that Gatlin’s high school coaching which may not have been the greatest for optimal speed development could like many high school programs been very good for general athletic development and more inline with multi-event training. Then there is the assumption that his training in college would be the same for sprints/hurldes/jumps as it was with some added javelin, discus, shot, and pole vault work. Well it just doesn’t work that way, 3 of those events are the most technical events in track and field and to become a competent decathlete with those events is a continuing work in progress for someone has never trained for them and is just being introduced to them.
Out of high school he wouldn’t be breaking the national high school record in the decathlon like some of you have been suggesting with point totals. He had very good potential to score well on Day 1 of the Decathlon, but like many who have potential he would have found Day 2 to be a daunting experience. If in college he wanted to be a decathlete he would have been around 6800 pointer after 1 or 2 years depending on competency and no matter how raw of an athlete he was out of high school if UT thought he was an 8000 pointer compared to a 10.1x 100m sprinter they likely may have given him a shot. 8000+ points is an olympic medal and ncaa champion marks, while 10.1x 100m is going to get you points and in an off year at the NCAA’s. Some of make the decathlon seem like it’s easy to be good at all ten events. UT made the right decision if they had to make one at all, his abilities and his frame suited the 100m/110H over decathlon.
You said he would be lucky to throw 36ft in the shot. Do you understand how easy that is for someone that is decently strong and explosive, let alone world class in those qualities like Gatlin??? And yes, I know the 16lb. Still, 36feet is a freakin joke. The javelin the same. You’re assuming that he isn’t only doing “okay” marks, but putrid marks. Marks that people with moderate at best talent beat in their first year of training. Give me a break dude. All of those events more technical than the high jump? Right.
You keep talking about how he’d need to gain weight—he was as big as Bryan Clay! How big does the dude need to be?
10.1 gets you points in an off-year? First, he went under 10.1 and won NCAAs in the 60m, 100m, and 200m in separate years against the likes of Leonard Scott.
we must be talking about different Gatlin’s the one I know of that when he graduated high school was not the same one roided up one who broke the WR in the 100m. Out of high school I seriously doubt he could throw a 12 pounder over 40 feet and a 16lb’er well lets not even go there. He wasn’t close to being fully developed muscularly as a teenager.
Bryan Clay is also 5’11” and 185 lbs which is both denser and larger than Gatlin 6’1” 175 frame in his PED enhanced prime.
I know what Gatlin ran in college, but in terms of the coaches, they probably thought he was a 10.1x guy potentially, not a 10.06 his freshman year. If they even thought he was going to be an 8000+ point decathlete when they recruited him and when he first showed up that’s what they would have trained him to be.
How could he not throw the 12lber over 40ft? Crap, I am smaller than he was out of high school, slower, weaker, and shorter and I DID throw the 12lber over 40ft within 15mins of learning the motions of a very simplified glide. I saw guys that were slower and weaker than me (but much taller) do the same thing.
Gatlin was not 175 in 2004-2006. You are on crack if you think that. I’m sure Leonard Scott and Shawn Crawford were also in the 170s (sarcasm).
How could he not throw the 12lber over 40ft? Crap, I am smaller than he was out of high school, slower, weaker, and shorter and I DID throw the 12lber over 40ft within 15mins of learning the motions of a very simplified glide. I saw guys that were slower and weaker than me (but much taller) do the same thing.
Gatlin was not 175 in 2004-2006. You are on crack if you think that. I’m sure Leonard Scott and Shawn Crawford were also in the 170s (sarcasm).
Let’s see the only valuable information given by you so far is that you should be a decathlete. Seeing that you will score over 600 points in 2 of the more difficult events for sprinters just travel 3 hours south and I’ll coach you for free.
You vastly underestimate what someone who is fairly strong/explosive and with actual coaching can do. Again, 40ft with the 12lb shot? Are you kidding me? 150ft with the javelin? Get real man. Those are not even impressive marks for a smaller high school guy, let alone someone who has done some strength and power training (like you would do for short sprints).
You vastly underestimate what someone who is fairly strong/explosive and with actual coaching can do. Again, 40ft with the 12lb shot? Are you kidding me? 150ft with the javelin? Get real man. Those are not even impressive marks for a smaller high school guy, let alone someone who has done some strength and power training (like you would do for short sprints).
For a HS decathlete, those are impressive marks. Let alone, a 150 foot jav throw would put you in the mix with what some of the top 8 national level decathletes do.
Deca’s are better all-around than any other athlete. It’s much harder to train a successful decathlete than sprinter/thrower/jumper/hurlder because the need to learn to do all 4 of those things across multiple events much less have the ability to spot a potential great one.
Yeah really hard to throw a 12lb shot 40ft or a javelin 150ft with any athleticism. So impossible and physically demanding.
Maybe that’s why the 135lb powercleans for speed aren’t cutting it?
I am not saying sprinters can’t throw, but training them to be better throwers is not going to allow them to be great sprinters or even keep the speed they have. That’s your fundamental misunderstanding. My female sprinters have done shots in practice, just to get them away from the track, they did all kinds of throws, and some of their shot attempts were good, but none of them cracked 30 feet with 4kg and my best HS heptathlete never made it past 30’ on an official mark. My best deca with a throwing background barely threw over 40 and was a 6’5” HJ and 140’ discus thrower and he easily was my worst performer, because he couldn’t run a decent 400m or 1500m, but was athletic enough to pole vault 10’. My best decathlete’s started as PV’ers and neither of them broke 40’ and one’s a 16’ pole vaulter who runs a 11s 100m and he hasn’t hit 38 feet yet in 3 years and he’s athletic enough he throws shot rotational farther than gliding, he’d be a 6000 point decathlete with HS implements if he worked on hurdles and HJ his other weakness is Jav, but comparatively his 130’ marks aren’t bad, because he doesn’t lose many points except to those who came to the decathlon with a javelin training background, which his Pole Vault and/or 100m offset. Granted I try to keep them trained in their main event areas as much as possible, but they would have considerably more motor control than Gatlin would have after 2-3 years of training fit within a moderate multi-event model.
Either train a decathlete yourself or do it yourself, possibly do both to fully grasp what I am saying.
Your girls aren’t very powerful then. Your best decas being PV’ers highlights the reason why high school dec is a freakin joke. It’s mostly based on who practices doing each one since most aren’t going to attempt all of the events. Some states don’t have the pole vault and few have the javelin, so you dramatically cut the potential deca pool. Plus, I don’t believe that the decathlon attracts the best athletes. I think the best athletes tend to pick different events or sports because they pay way better than the decathlon ever will. Wait, somebody here was telling me they make great money—better go tell Clay, his therapists, and his coaches that. I’m sure they’d love to get in on the action of all that moolah everyone is saying he’s been making as the World Champ indoors and out.
Multiple board members here can verify because I just got done finding well over a dozen meets from my section in high school of people of normal size and average talent that obliterate all of the marks you are talking about. I won’t post the kids’ names since I am not in the position to do that, but it’s a fact. One meet had 3 underclassmen throw over 45ft in the shot their first meet EVER.
Your girls aren’t very powerful then. Your best decas being PV’ers highlights the reason why high school dec is a freakin joke. It’s mostly based on who practices doing each one since most aren’t going to attempt all of the events. Some states don’t have the pole vault and few have the javelin, so you dramatically cut the potential deca pool. Plus, I don’t believe that the decathlon attracts the best athletes. I think the best athletes tend to pick different events or sports because they pay way better than the decathlon ever will. Wait, somebody here was telling me they make great money—better go tell Clay, his therapists, and his coaches that. I’m sure they’d love to get in on the action of all that moolah everyone is saying he’s been making as the World Champ indoors and out.
Multiple board members here can verify because I just got done finding well over a dozen meets from my section in high school of people of normal size and average talent that obliterate all of the marks you are talking about. I won’t post the kids’ names since I am not in the position to do that, but it’s a fact. One meet had 3 underclassmen throw over 45ft in the shot their first meet EVER.
Yeah and they could are likely 6’2” 270 lbs throwing 45 feet, because 270lbs can move significantly slower to provide the same momentum to the shot that Gatlin at his HS weight would have to do with his speed, and if he moves too fast through the ring he ends up scratching. Crazy isn’t it. I can throw the shot farther now than I ever have without training, because I weigh more now.
This state doesn’t have javelin!!!
Clay would make money if he set up a european training base and actually lived there. He can’t get appearance money here, there’s no meet promoter who’s going to give him money here all the big decathlons are at relay meets and the one-day money is Europe.
As for my females not being very powerful, for HS female athletes I would say their weight to power ratios are above average. You know 18’ feet long jumpers, 15.1s 100H, and 5’4” High Jumpers come along about 2 maybe 3 a year in 60 mile radius and I train two of each.
Only one was b9g and regardless, it was their first meet. As Mike has said, OHB and shotput are pretty much within a 1m deviation. I don’t know many athletic guys that can’t throw at least 13m with the 16lb, let alone 12lb.
Even if he lived in Europe, money in what events? You can only compete in so many decs and there’s only a few events he’s even competitive at the international level in as an individual. Appearance fee to do what? Get killed in basically any individual event?
