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Ice baths/Hot-cold showers and massage. Timing?
Posted: 18 August 2008 09:27 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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In which order is the best way to utilise these recovery methods after training?

Ice baths or Hot/cold showers first, then massage, or the other way around?

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Posted: 18 August 2008 01:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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I would think ice beaths/contrast showers first

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Posted: 18 August 2008 01:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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I’ve wondered about this and I bet Carl Valle could help out a lot.

I have some questions of my own as well that have floated in my head for awhile

If you take an ice bath immediately, does it slow the effectiveness of a post workout shake?

If I do a split session, with sprinting being a few hours before lifting, what would be the best protocol for ice baths/contrast showers then? Could I take an ice bath after sprinting and then before I warm up for lifting would I want to take a contrast shower? Should the ice bath be shelved until all workout activity is done for the day?

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Posted: 18 August 2008 01:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Perhaps people could share a case example as it’s all based on the situation.

For example my hurdler is at Beijing now and I don’t want any therapy as he needs to tighten up the tone as he is too low to get faster….

will post more later.

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MYONOVA

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Posted: 03 October 2008 12:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Bumping this for Carl.
Also, do you still have your old website? I remember reading it quite a few years ago and it was a bit over my head in some parts, but want to give it another go if its still around.

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Posted: 03 October 2008 12:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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00Scoots - 03 October 2008 12:06 AM

Bumping this for Carl.
Also, do you still have your old website? I remember reading it quite a few years ago and it was a bit over my head in some parts, but want to give it another go if its still around.

Yeah Carl, where is it?

I tried to buy a shirt in exchange for some free advice and it was gone shortly thereafter so I was unable to return the favor.

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Posted: 08 January 2009 11:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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So in particular massage and or foam roler…

How close to a meet should i get any of this…i have one on sat and my IT bands are pretty sore and tight right now…

When should be the last time you get a massage before a competition and does the foam roller count for this?

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Posted: 08 January 2009 01:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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In my limited experience it’s very situation, athlete, and therapist specific.  Much more experienced coaches like Dan Pfaff often point to rehearsing therapy, nutritional interventions etc.. in training and smaller meets to figure out what’s best for the individual athletes situation.  Then wise decisions can be made in bigger situations.

Dan would tell you some athletes can get therapy right up until the gun if it’s focused and not screwing up tone.  Others discoordinate or come out flat with work the day before or in rare cases even 2 days out without motor reeducation work.


My experience with athletes with a therapist or doing the massage myself.  Many of my ideas and thoughts are stolen from therapists (Vaughn, Staker, Hackett) and coaches (Francis, Pfaff, Valle…) much more experienced than myself. 
If something is screwing up athlete performance and is likely injurous you have to adress it. (had a female hurdler who won state title on which I did some fairly deep, but very focused massage on adductors and light flushing general massage between runs of state championship meet (300m hurdles)).  How would she have done without it… we’ll never know.  I had worked on her before between runs in practices and in meets (did so in regionals) where she had 4 events and she had responded ok so I decided it was worth the risk.  That said you also have to be careful not to eliminate a “problem” or only part of the problem and end up making them worse.

2 days out most people do great as long as you’re careful to get/maintain tonus to appropiate levels.  Quality of the therapist matters as tone is important and you don’t want them bruising the athlete by using elbows or stripping out an IT band right before a meet.

1 day before is more athlete and type of therapy dependant as therapy changes things and is stress itself.  Some athletes will discoordinate a bit or come out flat.  It also depends on training setup as well as setups with priming work the day before or morning of provide additional oppurtunities to reboot.

For ITbands look to structures that attach like the anteriolateral hip and glutes first then adress the ITband and more distal fascial interactions (vastus lateralis/IT etc..). 

Nick I’d consult your coach;)

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Posted: 08 January 2009 01:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Thanks a lot Mat…

I wanted to ask on here so everyone can learn from it.

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Posted: 08 January 2009 01:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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no problem… wish more people here would post their thoughts on matters of training, but the really good guys here stay busy and realize that most training matters aren’t as simple as a forum post.  Still, I think a lot of those interacting on the forum realize as well that it’s not that simple and could still learn from brief observations/thoughts of others.

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Posted: 08 January 2009 02:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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i will use a foam roller during my warmup at a meet if necessary.  i think a lot of people are afraid that bodywork will make them sore (rarely does unless there is high force used) or that they need to foam roll everything that hurts when you roll it.  if a structure is restricting your movement then address it.  if it’s not then don’t worry about it.  almost everyone hurts when they foam roll their outer leg.  doesn’t mean you need to keep doing it forever.

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Lewis almost certainly has his hands on a 3rd consecutive gold medal…Powell good sprinting speed….oh that is huge!

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Posted: 08 January 2009 02:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Nick Newman - 08 January 2009 11:03 AM

So in particular massage and or foam roler…

How close to a meet should i get any of this…i have one on sat and my IT bands are pretty sore and tight right now…

When should be the last time you get a massage before a competition and does the foam roller count for this?

I perfer to end all foam rolling on Thursday nite, Friday we will stretch and EMS.

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