Elitetrack: Sport Training & Conditioning

Friends,

Looking to lay down a plan for a weight training set-up. Have been doing a lot of reading on here and Charlie Francis’ site looking for help with the matter. We are a group of 400m runners based in the UK. I will give a brief outline of the general weekly cycle for training.

Mon- Hills ( accel dev) + weights 1
Tues - Tempo + weights ?
Weds- GS circuit / active recovery
Thurs - Tempo - weights??
Fri- Weights???
Sat- Long hills / fartlek

Bold = Team sessions
Italic - Possibilities for position of weights

Currently the only set in stone weight session is the Monday. I have been weighing up where to place the other 2 sessions. A common issue in the UK which differs to the states is that it’s very rare for coaches to set lifting and running on the same day. Our countries best 400m runner follows this approach strictly. I quite like the idea of lifting again on the Tuesday as this then allows us to follow the 2 days on : 1 off, 3 days on 1 off approach successful to kitkat’s training. I have read on here Mike suggests to keep complimentary methods paired on the same day which I no tempo and weights do not fall under, however where would you place the remaining sessions if you only have the single speed day?

Now the contents of the weight sessions themselves:

My coach and I have been discussing this matter for a while now, he quite likes the Barry Ross approach we read in an article. I think the main point of it was v.low reps, main exercises focussing around deadlift and bench press. I believe his reasoning behind the deadlift was that it hit more motor units than a clean because you are working maximally?

I have read that when it comes to squatting and DL it is generally an either or. From searching through these forums i have seen that Mike places an emphasis on Squatting so in his program regular DL is not a requirement. What was the reasoning for squat over DL in this case?

Weights 1 following hills - power clean (high no of sets of 2-3 reps will progress by reducing sets whilst increasing load + recovery) , bench (3x6 progressing to 4x5), squat (3x6 progressing to 4x5)

For the remaining sessions i could do with your input.

session 2 possibility - Deadlift ( 4x5) + bench pull to balance out the bench press.

session 3- repeat session 1?

Too much heavy lifting?

This has turned out to be quite a long ramble! apologies. I have a lot in my head right now.

Thank you all for any input!

Owen.

Just looked over this quickly but I’d suggest heavy liftng on Monday and Friday with Tues and Thursday being circuit fashion or moderate intensity to better pair with the work on the track.

RE: Barry Ross’s program- I think most people around here (and I assume CF site too since you’ve been looking there) would agree there are benefits but it has some pretty serious limitations…especially for long term progress.

RE: why I choose squat over deadlift. I prefer squat over deadlift for a variety of reasons.
*It’s much more difficult to use terrible form and still lift the weight.
*I actually like that there’s an eccentric portion of the lift…most athletic movements have one.
*It’s easier to come up with varieties on stance, tempo, pausing, etc. with squats.
*Less stress on lumbar area.
*I could go on but those are the major ones.

Do you really have to go either or with Squatting and Deadlift?  I have used both in the same program, but on different days most (95-99%) of the time and it’s been effective.  I also do squat or deadlift before I do olympic lifts and most people do it the opposite.  I also only have my athletes lift mostly 2 but sometimes 3 times a week unless I am running out of inventive ideas on activities during the winter months.  I usually work about 4 micros of this before I test the following week and then repeat or mix it up for another 4 micros if the tests and lifts are getting stale.

monday
Squat
clean
Athlete Choice of Flat/Incline/Dips
Athlete Choice of Rows/Pulldowns/Pullups/Military

wednesday or thursday (depends on the competition schedule, but usually wed)
deadlift
snatch
Athlete Choice of Flat/Incline/Military press or dips
Athlete Choice of Rows/Pulldowns/Pullups/Curls

I agree with Mike on tues and thursday, I would even go as far as replacing weights with GS or multi-throws/jumps routine.

Mike Young - 08 October 2008 11:36 AM

Just looked over this quickly but I’d suggest heavy liftng on Monday and Friday with Tues and Thursday being circuit fashion or moderate intensity to better pair with the work on the track.

RE: Barry Ross’s program- I think most people around here (and I assume CF site too since you’ve been looking there) would agree there are benefits but it has some pretty serious limitations…especially for long term progress.

RE: why I choose squat over deadlift. I prefer squat over deadlift for a variety of reasons.
*It’s much more difficult to use terrible form and still lift the weight.
*I actually like that there’s an eccentric portion of the lift…most athletic movements have one.
*It’s easier to come up with varieties on stance, tempo, pausing, etc. with squats.
*Less stress on lumbar area.
*I could go on but those are the major ones.

Thanks Mike, so if going along with lifting heavy on mon and fri. Are you likely to achieve greater gains doing one lift in both sessions i.e deadlift or squat. or would you do one on the monday and one on the friday? what im asking is do you see greater gains by focussing on one lift or would 1 session of each improve at the same rate? thanks.

Not to play the antagonist here but…why not have either a squat based cycle or a deadlift based cycle? I may be missing something here but doesn’t a 5rm deadlift on a 40X0 tempo have an eccentric component? For variety you could do a snatch grip, clean grip, snatch grip podium, progressive range in the rack, or trap bar.