While talking with a colleague today an interesting subject came about. Specialization is a term that many coaches especially in H.S often hear, or try to convince their athletes to do. With so many sports available now in the United States many of the athletes that are standouts in H.S fall away from certain sports to follow dreams of the NFL,NBA, NHL, MLB, etc. No sport feels this more than track and field. In regards to this I started to think globally, and how specialization impacts sports and athletes in other countries. With many countries having few “professional” sports is it possible that they are obtaining the best possible athletes for their sport? Many other countries major sports are, Soccer, Hockey, Basketball, Swimming, Gymnastics, etc, but they are not nearly as large as the United State’s Football, Basketball, Baseball, and Hockey. So is the U.S track and field team “fielding” the best track and field team possible? Could it be even better? I mean don’t get me wrong, we have some of the best track and field athletes in the world, but what if Michael Jordan long jumped, or Vince Carter High jumped? What if Michael Vick threw javelin with his great arm speed, and athleticism? I know this also opens up to great debate about many other factors, but this was just an interesting topic that I thought others may like to debate upon, and place input on.
I think we’re DEFINITELY losing people to other sports AND to inactivity in the States. I think the guys mentioned would probably be great track athletes. To think what Vick could have done in the decathlon is scary. We don’t even have to extrapolate performances though…think of the guys who actually WERE elite tracksters (at least part time) before they left for another sport:
Eric Metcalf, Terry Bradshaw, Willie Gault, Jon Ogden, Michael Bates, Rocket Ismaill, etc. There’s no other sport that loses as many elite athletes as track in the States does.
I think we’re DEFINITELY losing people to other sports AND to inactivity in the States. I think the guys mentioned would probably be great track athletes. To think what Vick could have done in the decathlon is scary. We don’t even have to extrapolate performances though…think of the guys who actually WERE elite tracksters (at least part time) before they left for another sport:
Eric Metcalf, Terry Bradshaw, Willie Gault, Jon Ogden, Michael Bates, Rocket Ismaill, etc. There’s no other sport that loses as many elite athletes as track in the States does.
Chris Johnson - Rookie RB for the TN Titans ran 10.38 his speed transfers to the field so you can see why he went that way.
Think of what the US “could” do in weightlifting if someone like Barry Sanders or Warrick Dunn lifted as an 85. Or some of the backs and receivers as 95’s or 105’s. Not to mention the possible supers form Oline and Dline. And some of your smaller point guards in NBA as 77 or 85’s.
They go where the money is at and you can’t really blame them. Plus they like playstation.
This topic also was a great topic of discussion at this past summer’s level 2. When Boo was asked about it he just kind of shook his head. What really got it started was Walter Dix. A standout in the college football ranks, and he made the decision to stay with track which was a great choice on his part. We need to start seeing more athletes keep their options open, but then again some of the pay checks that these guys receive ae just outrageous
I don’t think we field the best team possible for different reasons. There are athletes every year who are 16-18 years of age who are just physically maturing later than their contemporaries and who because they have been passed over by over specialization and this madness of winning early are either looked over or drop out of athletics.
I could care less about footballers who stay in football, you cannot compete competitively in track while you carry about 10-15% more mass from what footballers now weigh in the NFL (not college so don’t bring up college mike). All the real fast guys still in the NFL either use PEDs, are small and lean, or are tall and lean. The linemen or linebackers as throwers is another ludicrous thought, most NFL O-linemen are so big now they cannot pull on blocks anymore and teams using a zone blocking scheme, the defensive tackles are space eaters, the LB’s are almost all on PEDs, the DE’s are mostly the same way. So they couldn’t either pass the drug controls or they would be to big to move effectively to run, sprint, or throw.
Michael Vick would have huge problems with hurdles, pole vault, shot, and maybe discus to start. He would have been a monster javelin guy, but not the best in the world. He would have fast 100m and possibly long jump, but I doubt it would be anything threatening record books. His high jump, 400m, and 1500m might be suspect too. We are talking about an athlete who was very creative, but very undisciplined and very unstructured who likely wouldn’t hack it to put his physical abilities to any use in the decathlon wear practice and dedication mean everything to making it to the top of the sport.
This topic also was a great topic of discussion at this past summer’s level 2. When Boo was asked about it he just kind of shook his head. What really got it started was Walter Dix. A standout in the college football ranks, and he made the decision to stay with track which was a great choice on his part. We need to start seeing more athletes keep their options open, but then again some of the pay checks that these guys receive ae just outrageous
I believe Bobby Bowden told Dix his future was in track.
Firstly who freakin cares about threatening the record books!!! It is about competing at a high level and improving. Records don’t mean shit for 99% of pro track athletes. And, how do you know all of this about Vick? These guys were saying, if he trained for Track and field then he could be a great decathalete…Clearly if track was his chosen sport, he wouldnt look how he looks, he would be more diciplined, his other biomotors which are important for the decatholon would be developed and he more than likely would be very good at it because he has so much natural TALENT.
BS Nick, everyone thinks I extrapolate too much and complains about it, but when Mike says something it is taken as the holy grail, but I will take a stand to this hypocrisy, football players are not the best athletes. I am not on here to be the anti-Mike. Abilities don’t equal talent.
When I look at Michael Vick I don’t see a decathlete I see a football player, better yet, I see a playground player. Football coaching couldn’t bring out the discipline required by Vick to be a great football player with all the abilities he had, so I seriously doubt track and field would have maximized those abilities. Also, the creativity and playground styles which created many of those abilities would not likely be present in a highly regimented and disciplined track and field system.
Clearly if he chose track, he wouldn’t have developed the same biomotor abilities he developed on a playground and playing playground style football.
I don’t think we field the best team possible for different reasons. There are athletes every year who are 16-18 years of age who are just physically maturing later than their contemporaries and who because they have been passed over by over specialization and this madness of winning early are either looked over or drop out of athletics.
I could care less about footballers who stay in football, you cannot compete competitively in track while you carry about 10-15% more mass from what footballers now weigh in the NFL (not college so don’t bring up college mike). All the real fast guys still in the NFL either use PEDs, are small and lean, or are tall and lean. The linemen or linebackers as throwers is another ludicrous thought, most NFL O-linemen are so big now they cannot pull on blocks anymore and teams using a zone blocking scheme, the defensive tackles are space eaters, the LB’s are almost all on PEDs, the DE’s are mostly the same way. So they couldn’t either pass the drug controls or they would be to big to move effectively to run, sprint, or throw.
Michael Vick would have huge problems with hurdles, pole vault, shot, and maybe discus to start. He would have been a monster javelin guy, but not the best in the world. He would have fast 100m and possibly long jump, but I doubt it would be anything threatening record books. His high jump, 400m, and 1500m might be suspect too. We are talking about an athlete who was very creative, but very undisciplined and very unstructured who likely wouldn’t hack it to put his physical abilities to any use in the decathlon wear practice and dedication mean everything to making it to the top of the sport.
You seem to be a smart guy but you are one argumentative cat bro.
I think we can all be certain that in recent times track and field was as dirty if not dirtier than the NFL and a host of other “classically” enhanced sports. How do we know this…? They were using the same suppliers.
Anyway, as Nick said, surely we can all see the inherent athletic ability in the NFL and NBA alone. The best athletes are going to go where the money is in MOST instances. In the USA that is the NFL, NBA and MLB. They are talking about talent, speed-power ability type talent.
BS Nick, everyone thinks I extrapolate too much and complains about it, but when Mike says something it is taken as the holy grail, but I will take a stand to this hypocrisy, football players are not the best athletes. I am not on here to be the anti-Mike. Abilities don’t equal talent.
When I look at Michael Vick I don’t see a decathlete I see a football player, better yet, I see a playground player. Football coaching couldn’t bring out the discipline required by Vick to be a great football player with all the abilities he had, so I seriously doubt track and field would have maximized those abilities. Also, the creativity and playground styles which created many of those abilities would not likely be present in a highly regimented and disciplined track and field system.
Clearly if he chose track, he wouldn’t have developed the same biomotor abilities he developed on a playground and playing playground style football.
No one said football players, solely based on the sport they are playing are the best athletes. They said the BEST ATHLETES are playing football. Personally I would add the NBA as well.
If the best athletes (in the USA) as a whole are not in the NFL and NBA, where the hell are they? It ain’t TF, swimming, weightlifting, boxing, UFC etc.
Do you really think that if we took some of the more talented (in speed power) from the NFL and NBA and and placed them with proper coaching that they would not excel, possibly up to the world level, in the following sports: Track, Field, Weightlifting. I don’t even feel qualified to discuss many of these sports, especially on a world-class level, but observation and my common sense tells me many of them would succeed.
BS Nick, everyone thinks I extrapolate too much and complains about it, but when Mike says something it is taken as the holy grail, but I will take a stand to this hypocrisy, football players are not the best athletes. I am not on here to be the anti-Mike. Abilities don’t equal talent.
I don’t think anybody is saying that football players make the best athletes….just that there are a quite a few football players who would be elite track athletes if they so chose. I can’t see how you can refute that. Your semantics (abilities:talent) aside, I can’t see how you could possibly say that the best track athletes possess the physical abilities to be very good at football (and other sports as well) and that many of them pursue that route for financial reasons.
It’s easy, football is a team sport and reliance on team support and their collective abilities and execution helps make you look “talented” when they are good too. The guys who seem be the best athletes on the football field are cornerbacks who can play man to man and are alone on an island, but this has gone to the way side. I still think that people pick the sports they are suited for the most. I don’t think we are losing the best sprinters to football. The sprinters seem to leave football, Carter, Capel, etc.
BS Nick, everyone thinks I extrapolate too much and complains about it, but when Mike says something it is taken as the holy grail, but I will take a stand to this hypocrisy, football players are not the best athletes. I am not on here to be the anti-Mike. Abilities don’t equal talent.
I don’t think anybody is saying that football players make the best athletes….just that there are a quite a few football players who would be elite track athletes if they so chose. I can’t see how you can refute that. Your semantics (abilities:talent) aside, I can’t see how you could possibly say that the best track athletes possess the physical abilities to be very good at football (and other sports as well) and that many of them pursue that route for financial reasons.
I don’t think we are losing the best sprinters to football. The sprinters seem to leave football, Carter, Capel, etc.
The only time you see this is when the person is a MuCH better track athlete than they are footballer. They could still be better at track than football but if the gap isn’t that wide and they are exceptional at football then they will go that route. Willie Gault, Renanldo Nehemiah, Randy Barnes, Michael Bates….all lured away from track to play football. All athletes who had accomplishments that far exceeded the 2 athletes you mentioned.
Wondered where everyone went - things have been a bit quiet lately.
I understand that you guys might be a little upset because you didn’t win as many track and field medals or didn’t dominate in particular areas that you have in the past but take a look at the other sports like volleyball for example where USA excelled. There are plenty of talented athletes with plenty of good coaches compared to smaller countries where specialization is almost culturalised. Granted that many talented athletes choose to chase pigskin around a field or wear long long shorts and spend all day trying to twirl in the air before dunking but similar problems are faced in the UK where the talented are absolutely obsessed with kicking a small round ball around a field or throwing a sharp implement at a board inside a pub. The UK still had a resurgence at the Olympics though.
What became apparent shortly after the Olympics and recently on Track and Field news is that a few of the top level coaches and administrators no longer provide the top quality planning, managing of finances for specific programs, and new technical knowledge that can provide an edge if not a morale boost etc. Clearly this is where you need to change things first. (and less playstation).
BS Nick, everyone thinks I extrapolate too much and complains about it, but when Mike says something it is taken as the holy grail, but I will take a stand to this hypocrisy, football players are not the best athletes. I am not on here to be the anti-Mike. Abilities don’t equal talent.
When I look at Michael Vick I don’t see a decathlete I see a football player, better yet, I see a playground player. Football coaching couldn’t bring out the discipline required by Vick to be a great football player with all the abilities he had, so I seriously doubt track and field would have maximized those abilities. Also, the creativity and playground styles which created many of those abilities would not likely be present in a highly regimented and disciplined track and field system.
Clearly if he chose track, he wouldn’t have developed the same biomotor abilities he developed on a playground and playing playground style football.
What are you talking about? AGAIN!!!
Myself and Mike do not ALWAYS see eye to eye, but that is actually something that makes our coach/ athlete relationship better in my eyes…
Who the hell said football players make the best athletes? Vick had speed, power in both upper and lower body, strength in both upper and lower body, coordination, agility ect etc…therefore IF HE HAD CHOSEN the decatholon he would have MORE THAN LIKELY been good at it. Full stop!
And, you see him as a football player, because guess what? you see him playing football. Think outside the box!
I actually had the opportunity this summer to speak to Denis Reno a number of times and one thing I asked him about was the talent in US weightlifting. He said he has no doubts that if some of the football players or throwers had been taught the classical, full lifts a bit younger, they would dominate the US right now since they are simply far more talented than anyone else. He said he’s even see guys (throwers and football players) do lifts like powercleans with loads that exceed the best in the US could do in that weightclass.
If anyone doubts there would be a LOT more world level sprinters/hurdlers/jumpers/throwers without football/basketball around, they’re nuts. I think there is enough talent around that I think the WRs may not quite be challenged (esp after Bolt, Robles, etc.), but there would be a heck a lot more depth and competition going around. Would there even be a 4x4 in existence at the world level? The US could already field 2-3 teams with a shot to win and if the NFL/NBA guys had done track, you’d probably have another 2-3 teams.
