Elitetrack: Sport Training & Conditioning

Read the Article here, and discuss it below.

I’ve seen similar articles that agree with this outcome. What would be interesting would be to see an article that compares S, P, SP, Oly, S-Oly, Oly-P, and Oly-S-P, and compare outcomes of not only vertical jump, but also 10m, 20m, 40m, and 100m sprint times. Also, it would be good to see results at the 4 week, 8 week, 12 week, 6 month, and 12 month periods…what works best longterm might not work as well if you have ony 4-6 weeks to prepare. Mike, sounds like subject for a nice Ph.D. thesis!

Back to the article, how would you suggest implementing a complex scheme…superset S and P, or alternate set of S, rest, then set of P, rest, etc., or do all sets of S then all sets of P still on the same day, or do S on one day P on another day.

Which brings me to another question…is it the complex training, doing both within same workout, or would simply including both in your training schedule, even on seperate days, do the trick?

star61 - 29 March 2009 08:34 PM

Mike, sounds like subject for a nice Ph.D. thesis!

Thanks but I’m done. No more theses or dissertations for me. I finished 2 months ago. I already tried pulling off 2 dissertations but quickly learned that there weren’t enough hours in the day for me to do it.

Back to the article, how would you suggest implementing a complex scheme…superset S and P, or alternate set of S, rest, then set of P, rest, etc., or do all sets of S then all sets of P still on the same day, or do S on one day P on another day.

I’ve done all of the above. Technically, they wouldn’t really be a complex though if one wasn’t immediately followed by the other. I have done S on day one and P on day 2 though very successfully. See Nick’s training from early indoor season for an example. Usually when I complex within the same day, I include a rest interval between the strength and power stimulus. Here’s an example:

Which brings me to another question…is it the complex training, doing both within same workout, or would simply including both in your training schedule, even on seperate days, do the trick?

I think complex training if used appropriately can produce results greater than the sum of the parts….but I think in most of these studies one can’t come to that conclusion since they aren’t specifically looking at complexing. There are studies examining complex training specifically though that do support this notion.

Any reason to exclusively choose the positive jumps after the box squat, or is it just this particular workout?

I was thinking of trying a complex where the P part depends on the S part, eg. power cleans/snatches/pulls followed by positive jumps, but full cleans/snatches or squats followed by regular jump-ups on a box. I think a similar relationship exists between hang cleans/snatches and depth jumps. Going further into such a scenario, depth landings would correspond to jump squats with a pause, and ankle jumps with weight seem to relate to consecutive jumps onto lower boxes.

sizerp - 30 March 2009 12:17 PM

Any reason to exclusively choose the positive jumps after the box squat, or is it just this particular workout?

It was at a period in time when I was trying to minimize eccentric loading and emphasize starting strength and power on this particular day. Both box squats and positive jumps from a box do this well.

I was thinking of trying a complex where the P part depends on the S part, eg. power cleans/snatches/pulls followed by positive jumps, but full cleans/snatches or squats followed by regular jump-ups on a box. I think a similar relationship exists between hang cleans/snatches and depth jumps. Going further into such a scenario, depth landings would correspond to jump squats with a pause, and ankle jumps with weight seem to relate to consecutive jumps onto lower boxes.

The pairings are similar to what I was trying to accomplish in the above example.

Mike Young - 31 March 2009 12:16 AM

sizerp - 30 March 2009 12:17 PM

Any reason to exclusively choose the positive jumps after the box squat, or is it just this particular workout?

It was at a period in time when I was trying to minimize eccentric loading and emphasize starting strength and power on this particular day. Both box squats and positive jumps from a box do this well.

I was thinking of trying a complex where the P part depends on the S part, eg. power cleans/snatches/pulls followed by positive jumps, but full cleans/snatches or squats followed by regular jump-ups on a box. I think a similar relationship exists between hang cleans/snatches and depth jumps. Going further into such a scenario, depth landings would correspond to jump squats with a pause, and ankle jumps with weight seem to relate to consecutive jumps onto lower boxes.

The pairings are similar to what I was trying to accomplish in the above example.

Are we walking about something similar to contrast training??

Can somebody point me to the articles referenced (Chu, and Yessis and Hanfield) that describe how the specific plyos were performed or can you describe to me how these are to be performed? I’m not sure if the way I was taught plyos and are the way they should be done so it would be great if I could read about how to actually do the double leg hops, split squats, and depth jumps described here. Do you focus on distance? Time on the ground? Both? Do you land all the way down in a squat position on all jumps?

TrkNFld - 07 April 2009 11:35 AM

Are we walking about something similar to contrast training??

Not in the example that I’m speaking of. More like potentiation training.

codeman9 - 07 April 2009 12:02 PM

Can somebody point me to the articles referenced (Chu, and Yessis and Hanfield) that describe how the specific plyos were performed or can you describe to me how these are to be performed?

Donald Chu and Michael Yessis have books on plyometrics. Fred Hatfield may but I know he’s written plenty of articles, mostly on squatting though. Just google search on their names plus whatever you want to know.

Do you focus on distance? Time on the ground? Both? Do you land all the way down in a squat position on all jumps?

Yes and no to all of the above. Different plyometric exercise develop different qualities. You can adjust the variables as needed to produce the desired stimulus (and adaptation). The only major violations of plyometrics are doing exercises that are too advanced, using too much volume or inappropriate technique, incorporating too little rest, and going for endurance rather than something on the other end of force-velocity spectrum.