[i]Originally posted by danimal9[/i]
All running requires speed. Let me use high school runners as a case in point. Most boys HS state champions run 10.5 for 100m, 20.5-21.0 for 200, 47 for 400, 1:50 for 800, and 4:10 for 1600 (I know some states are 1500m but I am using the eqiv. here).
Let’s look at the 200m pace for 400+
23.5 for 400
27.5 for 800
31.5 for 1600
Do you see a trend here? I do, you have to be able to run 21.5 seconds for 200m which would put you into most 200m finals in HS boys state meets if you want to win the 400 or 800. While as a 1600m runner you may only need 23.5 second 200 speed, but still that is above-average 200 speed for HS boys.
I didn’t coach HS track for all that long but most of the top distance guys I saw didn’t have that type of speed. In fact, many of the top U.S. distance runners admittedly do not have better than 56s 400m speed. Also, you again have the methodological flaw (which I discussed HERE) that you are assuming that any given individual can run relatively equally across all performances given the correct training.
I know you have research, but that research has 1 flaw, it measures acute adjustments not chronic adjustments of mileage on the runners. Since you seem to be a PhD candidate @ LSU I need not remind you of John Holloszy’s work.
Actually I’m not very familiar with it. While my undergraduate degree is in exercise physiology my doctoral studies are in biomechanics and I’m not as familiar with physiological research (other than muscle physiology). Can you please expand.
It is the long term effects that I want the runners to retain. Here is the problem, when I say 45 minute run I don’t mean JOG, I mean run until it hurts and keep pushing.
A 45 minute run to a 400m runner is the equivalent of a 4 hour LSD run to a marathoner. It’s all relative to the event they will competing in. Even if they were somehow able to blast through 45 minutes at 5 minute per mile pace (which I think we’d both agree is highly unlikely) they would still be running considerably slower than they will ever run in a race. Five minute mile pace is equivalent to 75s / 400m. This is about 20 seconds / 400m slower than a respectable HS 400m. Surely you can see that even if they were able to somehow do their long run at that pace it is still very slow relative to their event.
There are no shortcuts in wanting to becoming a great to elite runner, it takes time, patience, and perseverance. Why do you think Americans have had to wait so long for the next Johnny Gray @ 800m?
No arguments on any of the above, but we’re talking about 400m here and you’re giving an 800m guy as your example. The training you advocate might be appropriate for an 800m guy but I don’t think it would be anywhere near the best option for training 400m runners.
Leg Strength = hardening of muscles and bones to take the demands of work required.
Please note that this is your personal definition and not anything that is widely accepted. The “textbook” definition of strength defines it as the capacity to produce maximal force output. There is no way long runs will enhance strength (other than perhaps in sedentary individuals) if we use this definition. In fact, aerobic endurance activity has been shown to actually have a negative affect and interfere with maximal strength gains when combined with a resistance training program.
However, I will point out that it is flawed to think you cannot attain muscular strength from 45 minute runs.
Maybe by your definition but not by anyone else’s. Their is a TON of research on the negative effect of concurrent strength and endurance activity. This research shows that while it’s possible to make gains in both, maximal results will be compromised.
I still leg press over 1000lbs 6-8 times when I start my transistion from base to early-season work and that is to run local 5k’s. I do this primarily because I do not want to squat 500lbs 6-8 times. However, I get there by augmenting my running with doing 30-40 reps of 335-450 pounds once a week during base phase concentrating on total work (ie tw = reps x weight) .
That’s quite good but you are giving me a sample of one against an overwhelming amount of research and anecdotal evidence to the contrary.