There is no additional point, simply carrying on a training discussion.
I have never said cleans dont work, I originally asked why they would be incoorporated when other less time consuming and skill interfering methods are also available, each response was not verified and when challenged was ignored.
Just because alot of people use something doesnt make it right.
Alot of people took a drug during preganancy (thalidomide) some decades ago as it had the desired effect of sleep help and morning sickness – when the babies came out with stumps for arms and legs they discovered the side effects werent worth the efficacy of the drug. now no one uses it for that purpose any more – it is good for some things, bad for others.
60 years ago 90% of the athletic world thought weights would slow you down, they were wrong. Any talk to the contrary probably received defensive stands such as on display here.
in 20 years time it is highly probable that the only athletes doing cleans and snatches will be OLifters. Once the results are in.
Do you know that the first person to really push OL for sports outside OLifting didnt have any of his own athletes train that way? Why – he knew they didnt need to to get the benefits of lifting weights.
I have nothing against the lifts and if there were conclusively more effective than safer easier to learn lifts then i would gladly use them – why wouldnt i?
I just simply dispair at blind following of some passed down “wisdom” that is seldom questioned and very rarely backed by unbiased scientific data.
Why did you start doing cleans and the fast lifts/plyo metric work? was it because you looked into it or someone told you to?