We aren’t arguing to use olympic lifts at the exclusion of squats/deadlifts/etc.!
As in most threads, there are several issues being discussed. I was trying to limit the discussion to one specific aspect of the discussion. It was asserted that lighter/faster was better than heavy/slower. That question has not been answered, in my opinion, because the responses, including yours, don’t limit themselves to just that one point.
You are strawmanning the issue as you are misrepresenting what is being said and what the discussion is even about.
I’m not misrepresenting, I’m trying to get a straight answer to some questions, one at a time. Why are you getting hostile?
Please do not act as-if doing olympic lifts means using light weights, even relative to those loads that could be used in the squat or deadlift–let’s remember that CF says he never even goes beyond a 6RM load (usually significantly less) in the squat, which would be about 85%, maybe even less.
As I’ve said several times, I’m not asking about oly lifts, nor am I comparing oly loads to PL loads. That’s why I separated the questions out, so we would be comparing apples to apples. Pick any lift you want, and discuss light and fast vs heavy and slow, then we can discuss which lift actually would be the better to use. And the 85% CF discusses is heavy (85% of 1RM) not like the 30% where maximum force would be generated.
I have answered your questions. If you are unable to see the answers, perhaps you should re-read them.
No you haven’t. Not even close. Quote my question thread and give simple, short answers.
The issue isn’t about which is better–heavy/slow versus light/fast (whatever that is supposed to mean since there is a broad spectrum within lifts)–but it is about what combination of modalities is going to produce the effects we want.
My specific question WAS about light/fast (30% of 1RM) vs heavy/slower (80-90% of 1RM) and which would produce better long term gains in strength and the ability of the athlete to produce force as measure by a force platform.
Doing heavy/slow lifts as you have promoted in this thread and elsewhere as the primary modality in training is questionable as people often find they have better results when including different modalities besides strictly maximal lifting in their strength training regiments. The light/fast versus heavy/slow argument you want to continue to create is just freaking dumb. First, nobody getting results in track is regularly, throughout the year, doing squats over 90% of their 1RM.
Now you are misrepresenting. I’m not promoting anything of the kind. I have stated several times that I believe in a wide variety of weight training, plyos, and track work. I never said anyone should strictly lift over 90% all the time. That’s a blatent misprepresentation. I have never said you should not do olys, I said just the opposite. We do them. In order to intelligently review and refine your training program, you MUST break down each element, considering how that particular element improves some quality or skill you desire, how that element interacts with other elements and training overall, and how you entire program, which consists of several elements, promotes your final goal, whether it is to jump higher, throw farther, or fun faster.
Heck, most programs, outside of MAYBE a 1rm test, rarely go over 85% on lifts like the squat. People use a wide spectrum of intensities, which affects a number of things. In the olympic lifts, people quite often go to high percentages of their 1rm regularly because of the much easier recovery abilities and benefits, making the difference in loads (which is what you have defined as the prime issue) minimal.
And as Mike, CF and others have stated, most programs are crap.
Further, strictly increasing loads doesn’t really mean shit–why not just do a partial ROM deadlift? You will be activating the glute/hamstring complex quite significantly with much higher weight than you could ever squat under any circumstance.
That is a totally ridiculous statement. Moving heavier and heavier loads is not important? Think before you type, Davan. I’m trying to have an intelligent discussion and elicit thoughtful opinions, not have a pissing contest. Grow up.