Drug use between the sports is night and day, just like with bodybuilding. Sure, a lot of elites use various substances, but they are heavily restricted in the kinds, amounts, and times they can/do use. Powerlifters who are never tested in any sort of fashion have a much different set of circumstances. Equipment makes a HUGE difference.
The use of PED’s and equipment are not the reason powerlifters normally don’t squat deep. That’s why your argument is weak. Yes PED’s assist all athletes that use them, and yes you can lift more with equipment. How does this support the notion that powerlifters know less about the development of explosive posterior chain strength and power than other athletes, many of whom also use PED’s?
Why aren’t there tons of olympic lifters, who are going deeper and without equipment, getting the same rate of injuries in a much more complex activity?
What rate? Can you quote a study, not a report by some coach, that documents the rate of injury in Oly lifters vs powerlifters? Also, keep in mind that most top Oly lifters are in their 20’s, maybe 30’s. Many top powerlifters are in their 40’s, and no PED’s and equipment can’t explain that difference.
You just said you want anecdotal and empirical now you say it is crap.
I said anecdotal evidence is not the best type of evidence. Empirical evidence, well documented and reported, is the best. That lacking, however, one can look at all the available evidence, even if it is not necessarily documented in scientific form, and can draw general conclusions. That doesn’t mean you can use evidence such as…”it’s always worked for me” to prove your point. I repeat what I said before…good empirical scientific data lacking, my suggestion is to eumulate what seems to work best for those whose primary goal is developing the skill or trait you are working on. The speed coaches know speed, powerlifters know power, Oly lifters and shot putters know explosive strength, bodybuilders know mass building, distance runners know aerobic conditioning etc., etc.
You say there are no studies showing the wide stances specifically cause problems (though the vast majority tend to use a wider stance and the injuries powerlifters face is well documented in literature)…
Well documented? Could you please cite at least one scientific study that documents an increase in injuries among powerlifters who squat wide vs powerlifters who squat with normal to narrow stance?
Also, if power is the issue, shouldn’t we look at olympic lifters or throwers?
Again, Davan, read the posts more carefully. In an earlier post I already mentioned drawing information from both Oly lifters and shot putters. And one more time, this was not intended to be a discussion of squat stance. We routinely vary our stance from wide to medium to narrow stance, just as we vary our depth from a few inches below parallel to a few inches above parallel. The discussion was about squat depth, and whether or not ATG squats have been shown, with any level of confidence, to be more effective than parallel squats in producing functional strength and power for athletes such as sprinters and football players.
Davan, I truly don’t mean to anatagonize you or argue just to argue. But I often hear coaches and athletes sing praises of the benefits of ATG squats, but don’t really have any evidence to support their beliefs. What I do see among these same people is a disdain for powerlifters. I want to use the best methods to get the best results. If you, or anyone, can show me actual documented evidence that ATG squats, or narrow squats, work better than powerlifting squats for developing functional strength for sprinters and football players, I will be the biggest supporter of narrow stance, ATG squats you have ever seen.