[quote author="davan" date="1119525002"]
[quote author="cockysprinter" date="1119491649"]
[quote author="davan" date="1119468641"]
Well, of the 4 people who have run sub 9.8, 3 have been below 6' and two below even 5'10". Tim, Ben, and Mo are all below 6' and Ben and Mo obviously could have gone faster than 9.79 in their primes, as seen from BJ's Seoul run and Mo's Edmonton run. It could be said Tim probably could have run 9.77 had he not put his hands up the last meters. I don't see any evidence really showing that tall athletes are better, except for one finally running sub 9.8. In my opinion, the same goes for the drive phase concept. MJ, BJ, FloJo, and TMont have all ran faster in their respective events than any of the people advocating a drive phase.
just thought id comment on a few of the things here. if mo had had bens reaction tim in his 9.79 race he would have gotten 9.75. and mos best race (edmonton up to 70m) he absolutely destroys the splits from any other 100m race. so based on bens 9.79 and mos 9.79 and mos 9.82 they both could have gone much faster. this kind of invalidates your last sentence. mo matched bens time (and smashed it when you comare splits) and tmonts race splits are the slowest of the last 4 WR runs. only his reaction time and last 20m saved the race.
And the .05 MG got in the first 30m from harder tracks isn't taken into consideration? BJ makes this .05 up by 50m (in 20m) to make it equal at that point, so I think it's safe to say MG had quite a bit of help from this. BJ was obviously much stronger and probably had the greatest accel ever. His times were crazy for his era, but modern tracks have made it normal to see times around and below 3.80 to 30m. Doesn't really invalidate anything. Only one person may have possibly ran faster than people who don't advocate the drive phase. A lot more who don't do it are up there. Even in Gatlin's win at the Olympics he comes up earlier than he did in previous races.
ive considered this, and it could be that bens start was simply not as effecient as it could be. bens first 3 steps were all a recovery from his insane start. in rome he clearly trips because of it. i dont think many people consider that ben might not have been the greatest starter and finisher ever. also, cf has pointed out that harder tracks may also limit a runners maxV because of the rebound effects when a runner places his foot in front of his center of gravity. so really, comparing the tracks is kind of pointless when we dont know the exact effects. comparing the splits between mo and bens races without reaction times also shows the superiority of mos race. he runs 100m .04 faster than ben. if we give some extra time for slacking (which i think is pretty pointless, you run through or you dont) it might put his race on equal footing with mos. i think charlies initial estimate of 9.74-9.76 is a good one. that means he wouldve covered 100m in 9.61-9.63, compared to mos 9.62. by 2001 mo was clearly superior to ben, despite being injured at 60m, ben didnt match his splits until 80m.
im not really advocating the drive phase, just the superiority of mo over ben :P. i have mos 9.79 and its true he uses the drive phase less. i think the artificial acceleration position slows runners down, thoughit could be that the patience taught through the drive phase is what was needed. i just took issue with you saying "MJ, BJ, FloJo, and TMont have all ran faster in their respective events than any of the people advocating a drive phase." when it is clearly not the case. not matter how you look at it, mo is the greatest 100m man ever.
CF hasn't stated that if will detract from max v, just that the benefits are not as dramatic, big difference in statement. The reason for this is that it takes more strength to withstand the forces, which not every runner can (although I think MG and BJ could). BJ stumbled in Rome, but so did Mo in the US trials before, to the point where he had to put his hand on the ground to hold himself up. It happens. If you compared BJ to others of his era just for acceleration, he was on a different level completely, yet many people have equaled or bettered the 3.80 to 30m (BJ's PR) without even nearly the dominance less than a decade later. BJ did match the edmonton splits at 50m (even though the difference to 30m, which is what this is all about) and they had the same reaction time. (I didn't check this before I posted, but have before so I am about 100% positive, but correct me if I am wrong) I trust PJ's analysis that Mo could have, at the very best, gone 9.78 with an outside chance at 9.77 in Edmonton, assuming the rest of the race was perfect.
ECU: Probably because it's known that many (if not most) of the elite athletes at that level (WR) is on something. HSI has had athletes who have failed drug tests and been banned (although not MG or Ato that we know of). Many consider BJ to be the fastest man ever. He was the first man to break 9.8 and even 9.9 and was way ahead of his time in all respects. I personally always respect the fact that he was not the most genetically gifted, unlike some of the sprinters now-a-days who have been winning since they were youngins with ease. Of course, he did cheat (he and his coach admit that), but to some that is put further down than other points.