[quote author="dbandre" date="1233667057"]Maybe it’s too tight for the fitness industry, but for sporting applications its an excellent idea.
Yeah but how many activities outside of the throwing events (which have little requirement for power endurance) follow your suggestions for training power endurance. 1-2 reps? That’s about 5m of running. If the activity lasts 10 seconds why not go 10 seconds?
Overload would come from doing more work in less time, hopefully by only changing variable of work.
This is how I set up the lifting protocols that I referenced previously.
The big problem is how do you do this in training, specifically in the weight room. That’s part of my WiiMote experiments. Maybe its time for a human performance definition of power-endurance which fits the term which is how long someone can perform at a specific rate of work.
What’s the rate of work that we’re assessing dropoff by? 100%?
I am sorry to disagree, but what i said is true. Even decline pushups offer greater mechanical advantage for moving a load. The shoulder angles are the same, but the moment arms are different and so is system of balance.
You’re right that the moment arms are different but wrong saying that the load would be greater for decline pushups. Visualize the position you’d have to do pushups in to compare it to an incline press….that’s nearly a hand stand pushup? How many people can do those? much less for speed?
If it were not true then I could lift a person on back over 100 lbs doing a single pushup since this would put me at 315 for a flat bench but I did 3 of them with a 165lb person on my back yesterday at a super bowl party and there is no way I can bench 380×3 much less 315×3. If I could I would drop the 25-30lbs of excessive fat since fatherhood started and no training for almost 2 years to speak of and become a professional powerlifter.
This is an invalid comparison for 2 reasons. First, a pushup is more equivalent to a decline bench press….you know, the lift all the teenage meatheads at the local gym love because they can actually lift a decent amount of weight….way more than they can on a flat bench. Second, in a flat ground pushup, you’re earlier comments about moment arm are true….there’s less load on the shoulder joint because so much is taken on by the feet. This wouldn’t be the case in the incline press:decline pushup example.[/quote]
I know its how you setup your work as you listed earlier or nick did and caused the “Power Endurance” thread split from Nick’s training logs which essentially finished my epiphany. I think you have to take the whole training session into account. A thrower whose throwing or lifting too much (number throws/lifts) in practice would see a drop in work-rate while the amount of work went up if they did too much. This would also likely result in a reduction in performance capabilities if done for any chronic period of time in training sessions. Lots of different things to explain this, but one would be fitness-fatigue and the other would be an adaptation towards endurance of lifting or throwing at the muscular level which relates back to fitness-fatigue in terms of changes in mRNA resulting from repeated training bouts.
It’s hard to saddle someone on my back and try this even elevating my feet 12 inches off the ground. This is also why I prefer a lot of general strength type activities. I still think general strength type activities are better for power-endurance related activities when the duration of time is likely going to exceed 10s or even beyond 5 or 6 repetitions unless you are into something that requires lifting.