[quote author="davan" date="1229543249"][quote author="dbandre" date="1229514892"][quote author="davan" date="1229512930"]No, video is important because it isn’t just about foot positions, COM, etc., but also about GCTs and other factors.
Further, Carl focused on ankle stiffness in his post. You continue to just say stiffness and refer to overall leg stiffness, which is an important difference as it relates to what Carl says he is targeting by doing the drill in this fashion.
You then go on to post some nonsense about how this is bad if a person uses this as their sole or main mean of improving acceleration–I hope you weren’t serious when you posted that. I am not aware of anybody that uses the sled as their primary means of improving acceleration.
I’ll ask once again, like in the thread on cleans, to post vid. Your comments need some back-up with video because what you are saying is either unclear or isn’t phrased in a way that has a clear application. Not saying you need to post some 6.3-6.4 60m sprinter or something, just one of your high school athletes doing what you would consider a solid job on how to do this particular drill. It would make what is being discussed much clearer.
I gave author references for joint torsional stiffness for people to refer to. You can make the links there or you can refer to my website were I talk about the subject of angles using all three authors (Farley, Devita, and McCaw) I referenced. You could go further and link it to research of other authors and come to the same conclusion that stiffness is going to be reduced, it has to be, and the issue isn’t volitional extension here it’s flexion since when we are measuring stiffness we essentially discussing flexion at the ankle, knee, and hip at ground contact which correspond directly to leg stiffness and vertical stiffness and since the added mass is causing resistive forces against the line of pull and not gravitational forces normally associated with added loading. It’s kind of like running into a 20mph wind or greater that crosses the body at angle in the saggital plane. [/quote] You are arguing things that weren’t even being debated.
As the sole training purpose we’d see why sled pulling has little transference in motor learning of unloaded accelerations and yes there are coaches who only do sled pulling, hill running or other means as acceleration training.
That is not what we are discussing though. Saying this kind of detracts considering Carl and his athlete (and numerous other people) have explained that this is a drill that makes up a very small portion of their training and is in addition TO sprinting.
I said I would figure out how to post something to Carl’s request. As for your request of video, what good will that do? It doesn’t end the debate, it may only worsen the debate, if you need a video reference just pay attention to Carl’s athlete’s first 7 steps only in the video. Myself posting a video of a 14+s female sprinters pulling a non-weighted 15lb sled is virtually worthless, not to mention I might have 2 video segments at most or none at all in about 120 hours of tape to go through. I put them in sleds to develop the initial impulse and I am not sure it worked better than the slight inclines we used. I highly doubt I have any on my digitized copies as those are all mostly competitions, tests, and assorted exercise sequences and demonstrations I wanted for reference of which sled pulling is not one of them.
I’m not concerned about how fast they’re going–if they’re doing the drill correctly in what you define as the proper way to do it, I am interested in seeing it. I want to see if doing it your way also has no tibial rolling, over striding, and has optimal stiffness at specific shin angles.[/quote]
Everything I discussed is related davan if you believe it or not. [/quote] If you want to waste everyone’s time in this thread taking paragraphs to explain why sled pulls alone with no normal sprinting will not be optimal for improving acceleration, then continue, but it advances nothing that is being discussed. NOTHING.
The transference that will happen will not be seen in shin angles,
Says? The studies you are referencing did not test Carl’s method of sled pulls and certainly didn’t encompass Olympic hurdlers and their first 7/8 steps as their population and focus point, so I’m not sure what or how you can say that.
but in relative positioning of the COM like what is done in a sled pulling drill and this creates a gap in temporal-spatial awareness. So I don’t believe the transference which Carl wants will happen. The references I gave will let your learn to start collecting the dots on why this may not be the best way to achieve what Carl is wanting to achieve.
The majority of things you mentioned were not specific to what was being discussed, which was Carl’s method of pulling the sled. Even if you want to use them as an argument, it would only be against any resisted sprinting rather than against a specific way of going about it. Temporal-spatial awareness is obviously going to be changed in virtually ANY drill–do you think the longer GCTs in the method you are promoting have the same temporal-spatial awareness as normal sprinting?
The total package of training is what matters in the long run and what we have here is a slice of that training, to judge overall benefits the total package has to come into play and this is an unknown.
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I also did not bring this drill being the “end all” you did.
When?
I said looking at the differences between sled pulling and unloaded will give you the reasons why transference the transference is not what you would likely want. This is the cornerstone in the building holding his public debate. The transference is in ability to generate a greater impulse at the start. That’s the overload stimulus here. The effectiveness of sled pulling in transference to the actual skill of acceleration out of the blocks diminishes the more steps you take with the sled.
And we are talking about a sled pull that is short and looking to improve Rican Hurdler’s first hurdle steps.
It’s similar to a falling start in unloaded acceleration drills which doesn’t have much usefulness past 15-20m except if you did them in conjuction with fly’s. I think if a coach did these loaded acceleration drills before any other acceleration work they would see greater transference to the unloaded skill in the seasonal training plan, however I don’t believe they would find them to be of much benefit as season wears on.
Arguing something that wasn’t being argued, again.
This last piece were speed doesn’t matter is flawed, speed does matter and speed is related to stiffness and acceleration capabilities. Doing the drill correctly isn’t about tibial roll per se, but about accelerating the sled as fast as possible.
Crack kills, DB. You justified not posting video of your girls doing drills because your girls are slow and now you’re saying they cannot do the drill at all?
Trying to determine stiffness in sled pulling on each contact would be a monumental task in and of itself and the only references would be shin angles and velocity at each ground contact. So what you’d look for is a larger step distance as I originally stated! If that happens then you are generating a greater initial impulse, greater stiffness, etc…
Stop wasting time and either post video or stop the nonsense.