[quote author="dbandre" date="1228529894"]
Simply put a maximal test gives the coach a functional assessment of strengths and weaknesses in execution of a task along with quantitative performance levels. This is why tests of maximal effort should be and are necessary tools in an coaches toolbox. If form doesn’t break down at least partially in a maximal effort of any kind then the athlete is technically proficient and the only they will improve or adapt is through maximal overload.
The problem is that this guy’s form is so bad that he doesnt need a max attempt to see his compensations and dominant muscles. The girl has videos of her going light and she still straightens her legs too early and allows the knees to bow inward during the pull, as well as have a shitty catch.
If you look at Nick’s training log you will find he’s been doing cleans at 85% for 1 rep sets. Do you think maybe there is a reason for doing this light loading? Also, before Mike ever trained Nick he went through 4 years of HS training and 4 years of Collegiate training. Don’t you think Nick might have motor patterns and programs developed for execution that he has learned that are less than optimal.
You keep asking questions but you never seem to answer any.
Now lastly, how is a maximal test supposed to have much of a training effect? It’s not it is freaking test and not a training session. This is the part where it’s apples and oranges. Should Nick have dropped the weight? Yes, but that comes with practice and in a testing session, it’s not about what can your body do and handle. To give Vern Gambetta a plug it’s “Context, Context, Context.” The context here being it’s a video of a test as a opposed to a demonstration of a training session.
No, whats apples to oranges is that I pointed out the hypocrisy in this thread and you have been making excuses for it ever since.
As far as girl goes, I have yet to find more than 3 videos out of about 30 with females doing cleans with better form and the ones do have better form all have significantly lighter loads.
Just because others have crappy form doesnt excuse your own, esp if you (the coach) are going to knock the form of other lifters without clarifying that of your own athletes. This is something you seem unable to grasp.
Most are much worse in terms of muscle activation which is how Carl Valle framed his argument and not around who has “picture perfect” form.
Why not ask Carl what he thinks about the muscle activation going on the guy and girl’s lift vs the lifter I used for comparison? See if he agrees with all the things you think are fine or dont see.
No one is throwing rocks at “form”, we are throwing rocks at overuse of “back extension” to move the bar on its path.
Wow couldve fooled me with the title of this thread and the first few posts.
Granted both of Mike’s athlete’s have a little more back extension going on than I would like, but that’s mainly attributed to starting position which I pointed in my first post as I would like their butts a little lower to ground doing more of a deadlift pull than a good morning type pull. Everything is about starting position, initial line of pull, and loading, everything else unfolds from there based on individual localized strength and power abilities about each joint and how the brain wants the body to deal with the load to complete the lift.
Agreed that the starting position is important, but you will find some lifters with good starts but bad transitions. These lifters has crappy starts and hence crappy pulls and crappy catches. If I were the coach, Id either humble myself before putting others in the ‘training hall of shame’ or at least make sure my athletes had excellent technique.[/quote]
I hate piecing together quotes like this. So I will again answer you as fully as possible. I am asked you the questions. If you don’t know simply say it. You don’t have enough information and neither do I about Nick lifts other than they were for a testing day. Everything else we know nothing or can infer nothing from. So is it good for Mike to video tape his athletes on test day or not? If the answer is no then you are no coach or you don’t want to coach effectively.
Most of these gurus are out there martketing their crap like it doesn’t stink, reducing injury, strain, and increases power, speed, or what not. When I see what Mike does in allowing open confrontation on his own message boards even for his own things like a testing video in his inventory. That we should bow mercifully before the Oly lift king, because it’s not perfect form and taken completely out of context then I am going to jump on you like a junk yard dog for it. You call it hypocrisy, but has Mike deleted the thread? Has he answered either way? NO. I would say that’s being pretty humble.
The density of skull thickness makes me believe you all pumped too much HGH in your lifetime.
Instead of sticking to what was the theme of the Hall of Shame, Clydesdale Sled Pulls, Good Morning Doctor Tire Lifts, Knee Banging & Hanging Cleans, Good Morning Cleaning, Ball Bouncing Curls, Laughing Lateral Steps for Greater Core Stimulation, etc… You go off on a completely different tangent of “oh shit, they are talking trash about form. so let’s get that test video of mike’s up there.” When we start bashing test vids and the “form” in those lifts then go right ahead.
As for what Carl believes, that will be his opinion and certainly will liven the debate.
No one is saying we are perfect, we are asking why in gods name are people doing these? What the hell are they working? Are they in Apple Bobbing or well I can’t say it?