Is there any data or conversions from a 100 meter dash time and what a 110 meter Hurdle time should be?
Hip height and flight time are major factors in the 42’s. A sprinter who has some stumpy legs is never going to be a great hurdler.
And for great hurdlers, 3.5 seconds is probably a little steep. That would put Allen Johnson at 9.4 in 100. Who, by the way, is still running some sick times for being 38.
Little connection beyond the obvious.
For the males, the HS or College height makes a big difference. Contrary to the “Devers Effect” as women’s hurdles have needed to go up for years. They should be at least 36″ if not NCAA IAAF 39″ and HS 36’s
Women can vault, and want to change the Hep to Dec but hurdle race might as well be running over painted lines on the track cause it aint hurdling.
Guys have to raise their C of M right away to set up the first hurdle, unlike in the sprint. Perhaps the greatest detriment to a guy hurdler running them similar to the 100 is analgous to why the women in fact can.
It’s the deceleration that comes from having to ground each step (pre-hurdle) in front of the C of M. This because otherwise the C of M wouldnt elevate enough to clear the barrier.
Start to first hurdle being so different than a flat out 100m because of the need to set up the first hurdle.
Lower heel recoveries to avoid overstriding between hurdles also results in greater frequency.
Arm action needed to counteract trail leg, etc… etc…
In a pure view, both use spikes, blocks, a starter and are run in a straight line. After that, not so close…
I actually think you can be too fast for hurdling….at least too fast and too tall. Guys over 1.90m need to be a little slower to negotiate the hurdles well without really cutting steps too bad. People have done it other ways but if you are either tall and (very) fast you really have to modify mechanics.
If you’re really fast it’s almost an advantage to be shorter (below 6′) because you likely won’t have to cut steps as bad.
I would be more interested in seeing inseam lengths rather than actual height. Wouldn’t the change in vertical displacement be more of a detriment than cutting steps?
Yeah I think inseam length is probably a better indicator…certainly is at 400H. Other than the rare exception (Bershawn) you NEVER see guys with short inseams compete at the world class level in the intermediates. Allen and Tramell don’t really seem to have long inseams. If you’re shorter and faster you can probably move the takeoff point back slightly so that even though the vertical displacement may be slightly greater (than for a hurdler with a greater inseam) the projection angle can be lower.
Oddly, our fastest hurdler (14.29) is taller but actually has shorter legs and a long torso and neck. Also, his flat speed isn’t great but he’s a pretty good technician.
Florian Schwarthoff was 6’7″ if my memory serves me right and ran a 13.05 in the highs with 10.57 speed in the 100m….
the cut steps and running stride length is much different for those of all heights so it’s not a big deal. The taller the athlete the more important tight hurdle runs must be done.
Since the steps are all equal in a race you must work on stepping over and preventing too much backside mechanics.
The shorter the athlete the more strength is required eccentrically to handle the landings off the hurdles even if the lead leg comes down fast…..
I know you’re working with an emerging elite high hurdler of above average height. Can you address any specifics on how you handle the points mentioned above. Specifically, how tight do you place the hurdles? Do you ever use competition spacing in practice? Do you cheat the height of the hurdles? If you had a shorter hurdler how would you handle eccentric strength development?
I find some aspects useful
Look at the arm action of the hurdlers as Steve has a great article listed here:
I like doing curve fly’s so the shorten stride helps keep people from doing long strides during speed work (we missed an entire fall phase).
Also keeping the hurdles near women’s length helps teach the cut step more at full height.
Competition height and distance is usually at the first hurdle but I like to see good step sounds and front side mechanics. The fitter the athlete the more they can do similar distances and heights.
Confidence is huge and athletes in the tall 110s (42) will have more issues than women in their “highs” so we do a lot of starts over 42 unless they are not attacking. I have had them go 36 a few times.
Eccentric strength I have found to be of use from the faster speeds of the good hurdlers so at the elite level I am not sure. I tend to get shorter and “B” level sprinters that need to be worked with typical plyo work.
Let’s refer to the research as your calculations are not making sense to me.
Limitations to maximum running speed on flat curves- by Chang and Kram (see attached)
Track (m) (steps·s-1) time (s)
Straight 2.07±0.12 3.72±0.19 0.159±0.005
Curved radius (m)
6 1.70±0.10* 3.56±0.12 0.190±0.006
4 1.45±0.05* 3.66±0.18 0.198±0.007
3 1.41±0.07* 3.35±0.10 0.226±0.008*
2 1.18±0.08* 3.30±0.18 0.242±0.010*
1 0.80±0.04* 3.56±0.26 0.261±0.022*
6 1.53±0.02* 3.88±0.13 0.203±0.008
4 1.30±0.03* 4.05±0.11 0.221±0.009*
3 1.21±0.03* 3.78±0.06 0.233±0.008*
2 1.01±0.07* 3.74±0.23 0.263±0.008*
1 0.77±0.02* 3.82±0.12 0.290±0.004*
Values are means ± s.e.m. (N=5).
*Statistically signiﬁcant different to the straight path condition
Symmetry was assumed on the straight path.
note stride length changes and 10.5 guys have longer than 2 meters. Colin Jackson was 2.0 meters for his hurdle strides but was 1.6 off the hurdle.
Cody what are your thoughts now?
If I show race research that the curve has shorter strides will you admit that you are wrong and move on? The larger the track radius (outdoor) will be a factor but remember the speed of the athlete in a race will be faster than the research. Also indoor tracks is a factor that you should look at as they did research on 200m tracks.
The outdoor 200m has a quarter of the stride length changes of an indoor 200m and we are talking about an indoor track not outdoor like you keep bringing up. Your math is wrong.
The splits at the 4 x 100 are clear and the strides are shorter statically. Obviously people are not running in a circle but in a oval and the oval radius is far larger. Still the speed into the curve is different than acceleration from the top of the curve.
With stride lengths needing to be near 2m for hurdles yet are likely to be 2.4 meters or so for open sprints running a tight curve makes a lot of sense. We are looking at strides near 210-220 cm. Nobody will going 1.4 unless one is running on a toddler or peewee indoor soccer field.
I think a drum helps as ground contacts are longer with curve runs.
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