[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on March 29, 2009 at 1:54 pm #15520

Recently it seems there has been some passionate discussions with “experts” in the field of sprinting (Yessis vs bearpowered @supertraining list). With access to literature both past and present (and some in progress) I feel compelled to enter a new discussion about new sprint training ideas rather than argue about past theories with devoted theoreticists that won’t listen. For that, this site is the best forum. I’d welcome non-board members to join our discussion. An important point is to recognise that literature is the building block to further study and solutions. No one should be shy about putting their ideas forward as we will all grow from the contribution.
Firstly it seems we need to update our sprint modelling. The spring-mass model is a great place to start but the last time I threw a spring on the ground it did not continue to move perpetually in a vertical or preferrably a horizontal direction as close to 100m as possible. More likely the model we need is a bicycle wheel. Throw a bicycle wheel to the ground and it will bounce and might roll forward a little. Spin the bicycle wheel before throwing it to the ground and it will bounce and roll forward considerably and at speed. Take away the rim and the bicycle wheel may not continue to roll effectively. This will depend on whether the spokes are too rigid as some yielding is necessary to allow rotational force to act against the ground. There is an optimum stiffness and yielding for best bicycle wheel modelling performance.
Farley and Gonzalez (1996) showed that there is an optimum stride frequency where stiffness is compromised for force production. At higher stride frequency stiffness increases but force production decreases. At lower stride frequencies stiffness is reduced but force production did not reduce so much. This could suggest that greater stiffness is not required for better sprint performance. In fact, studies have shown that increasing strength (implying capacity for stiffness) does not result in improved sprint performance.
Delecluse et al. (1995) demonstrated that a strength program significantly enhanced strength (p<0.0001) but did not improve 100m performance; 12.45s before training, 12 42s after the training program. However in the same study, plyometric training improved 100-m performance from 12.51s to 12.3s although when taking into account the standard deviation it cannot be considered conclusive. What must be recognised is that the researchers found this improvement occurred within the first 10-m of the race. Which means...
there is still another 90-m of racing that we can devise methods to improve sprinting! In this regard, the Jamaicans are leading the way. Thanks to the 21st century You-tube, information highways etc., we've been able to see and read of some of what they do. One word comes to mind; innovation!
High knees up a slope at high frequency - hip flexor training, resistance training to move the body up the hill, short ground contact time. (Is this regarded as a sprint drill?!)
Rapid PNF stretching (more likely resisting) - conditioning the muscles to resist the stretch and fight back accordingly.
Innovation in the starting blocks - a technique change which must have been deliberately taught to them.
Sprint specific strength training such as the single leg squat - although stated that the weight held in front is for safety, this facilitates hip extensor strengthening and knee rotator strengthening. If you're going to strengthen your muscles then you should strengthen those muscles that rotate you about the knee rather than extend the knee. Watch yourself on video or in the mirror - are you extending the knee or rotating about it when sprinting?

Your thoughts?

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 1, 2009 at 3:22 am #80177

High knees up a slope at high frequency – hip flexor training, resistance training to move the body up the hill, short ground contact time. (Is this regarded as a sprint drill?!)
Rapid PNF stretching (more likely resisting) – conditioning the muscles to resist the stretch and fight back accordingly.

While I by no means think that the leg swing is passive (ala Bearpowered crew) I also don’t think that much time should be devoted to very active hip flexor training. It seems you emphasize swing phase and frequency more than ground contact time…is this correct or am I misinterpreting? I’ve done high velocity PNFs before but never in an approach that used enough athletes or in a systematic manner where I could tell that it was a good stimulus or not. The problem I found was that in sprinting joint angles are very open / large when you touch down in sprinting and the stretch occurs VERY rapidly under very high loads. It’s very difficult to replicate this type of loading outside of plyometrics and sprinting. I’ve done some things in the weight room that attempt to do this but I’m still testing to see how well they work. We do RDLs (single and double leg) where the athlete drops and catches the weight; quasi-isometric back extensions on a GHR machine where the ROM is very small and the turn-arounds are very fast.

Sprint specific strength training such as the single leg squat – although stated that the weight held in front is for safety, this facilitates hip extensor strengthening and knee rotator strengthening.

I like single leg squats and use them relatively frequently but I’ve always felt they are much more quad dominant than most forms of squatting.

If you’re going to strengthen your muscles then you should strengthen those muscles that rotate you about the knee rather than extend the knee. Watch yourself on video or in the mirror – are you extending the knee or rotating about it when sprinting?

I’m not sure what you mean by rotating. Can you explain?

ELITETRACK Founder

[rj24]

rj24 on April 1, 2009 at 4:04 am #80183

I’m at school, so I don’t have all my notes with me, but I’d love to chime in.

As I see it, sprinting can be broken down into five main factors:
1) Stiffness (tendon stiffness + muscular stiffness)
2) Tension Tolerance (of muscles and tendons)
3) Anaerobic Development
4) Ability to Relax
5) Correct firing patterns @ ROM

Of course there are other important factors (ie. explosive concentric strength for early acceleration), but these are the main ones.

Starting at the top, studies have shown (again, sorry, I don’t have my notes on me and so can’t get names until I get home) that groups of faster sprinters exhibit higher levels of joint and tendon stiffness. The stiffer their legs are upon impact, the faster they make it through the absorb-stabilize-reaction cycle and the less time they spend on the ground. Stiff muscles (aka eccentric RFD) are best produced through high speed eccentric loading (sprints, plyos, etc.) whereas stiffer tendons are produced by anaerobic endurance training, longer duration (~20 second) loaded isometrics, and weight training in general. As stiffer tendons allow better transmission of force from the muscles to the bones, it can be said that one can never have too stiff of tendons. Same goes for stiffer muscles, higher RFD is never a bad thing.

Tension tolerance is simply the muscles’ and tendons’ ability to deal with high forces, with the focus on the muscles in particular. Just because the muscles might have a high RFD does not mean that they have a high tension tolerance (ability to produce force). From a material sciences point of view, this would be like comparing aluminum to carbon fiber epoxy. Aluminum is much stronger, but carbon fiber epoxy is much stiffer. Having high strength and stiffness would be the best of all worlds. Basically what I’m saying here is that being fast (stiffness) is not enough, you need to be strong too (tension tolerance). It’s easy enough to do this. Just employ weights.

Anaerobic development is key as well, especially since the 1996 study by Elio Locatelli (The Importance of Anaerobic Glycolysis and Stiffness in the Sprints (60, 100, and 200M)) shows that 72% of the energy used in a 100M dash is delivered via anaerobic glycolysis. This number increases to 74% for the 200M. This study, and others, have shown that the faster an athlete ran over a certain distance, the higher their levels of blood lactate. This would indicate that faster athletes have a more powerful anaerobic glycolytic pathway. Another upside, training for anaerobic endurance has been shown to be the best way to increase tendon stiffness.

The ability to relax is central to any cyclical activity. Relaxing the right (antagonistic) muscle groups at the right time allows their working agonists to produce power unrestricted. This will lead to higher levels of output with less wasted energy. Similarly, the quicker a muscle is able to relax during the right time in the stride cycle, the more time it will be uncontracted for. The longer it remains uncontracted, the more time it has to regenerate ATP and therefore the more efficiently one is able to run. So, relaxation is one key to efficiency and energy production.

And finally, correct firing patterns and ROM are important to sprinting success. Yes, some athletes have run fast with inefficient form, but they could have been faster and more efficient with a more streamlined form, provided that they had the strength in the right places to use it. What form comes right down to in the end is having strength in the right muscle groups and in the right positions. In a sprint, when we’re trying to go as fast as possible, our body is going to recruit our muscles in the manner and position in which they are the strongest. For some people, their hips fire best when their femurs are externally rotated, sometimes 45 degrees or more. This isn’t efficient for running, but it’s the position in which their body can produce the most force, so it’s what their body automatically turns to. In order to have good form, we have to make sure that our muscles are the strongest in the right positions. For a sprinter, this means we need to be strongest with our legs facing straight ahead, our shoulders held low, and our pelvis neutral or posteriorly rotated. If you make sure you’re strong in the right position, that’s the way your body will recruit your muscles during a sprint. Of course, there’s also the need to practice sprinting at top speed so you become better and knowing how to activate and relax each muscle group. This is done through high velocity, full rest sprinting with no prior fatigue.

As for ROM, it’s self explanatory. If you can’t move through the right ROM easily enough, there will be friction slowing you down and wasting energy. Studies have shown that loaded stretching at the ends of the ROM produce the largest gains in functional strength, so this looks like it’s the way to go. Eccentric-quasi-isometrics are probably the most useful variation, and reactive means in the stretch work as well.

And, that’s about all I’ve got. Sorry about the lack of study names, but I’ll be able to get to them later.

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on April 1, 2009 at 4:13 am #80184

I for one don’t believe there is enough hip flexor development in training. I still do ballastic situps when I train athletes.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 1, 2009 at 4:28 am #80185

I for one don’t believe there is enough hip flexor development in training. I still do ballastic situps when I train athletes.

I don’t think this would qualify as extra work in most people’s books. Most sprint programs are full of anterior core work. Are you doing anything specifically to strengthen the hip flexors outside of core work and regular sprinting?

ELITETRACK Founder

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 1, 2009 at 4:30 am #80186

RJ-
Nice post. Just skimmed over it but will return later for deeper reading. You’re an inno-sport / DB guy right? Would you say that those 5 points are the foundation of that ‘system’ for lack of a better word.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Daniel Andrews]

Daniel Andrews on April 1, 2009 at 5:35 am #80193

[quote author="dbandre" date="1238539420"]I for one don’t believe there is enough hip flexor development in training. I still do ballastic situps when I train athletes.

I don’t think this would qualify as extra work in most people’s books. Most sprint programs are full of anterior core work. Are you doing anything specifically to strengthen the hip flexors outside of core work and regular sprinting?[/quote]

Mike:

I don’t do core work specifically anymore those muscles get stressed enough in circuit training, sprinting, weight room, even in warm ups and cool downs. Situps and leg raises are about the only exercises I do along with mach drills as part of dynamic flex and mobility which are about as close as you can get to isolating hip flexors in my programs but certainly there is enough work in what my athletes have done.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 1, 2009 at 6:16 am #80198

Mike:

I don’t do core work specifically anymore those muscles get stressed enough in circuit training, sprinting, weight room, even in warm ups and cool downs. Situps and leg raises are about the only exercises I do along with mach drills as part of dynamic flex and mobility which are about as close as you can get to isolating hip flexors in my programs but certainly there is enough work in what my athletes have done.

I’d say this is pretty much the norm for most coaches….which is what I’m getting at. You said that most coaches don’t do enough hip-flexor work and that you add in extra. I’m saying that what you’ve described seems to be stuff that much sprint coaches already do (which is a good thing). Where does the extra come in to play? Or do you just not think that other coaches are doing all that stuff?

ELITETRACK Founder

[rj24]

rj24 on April 1, 2009 at 7:54 am #80203

Thanks Mike.
I guess I could be called an Inno-Sport guy, but I’m not boxed in or zealous about it. I don’t apply the system word for word, but I do love the organization of means and nomenclature. The way in which the material is laid out is eye opening, to say the least. And I can say that as a person who’s spent years digging in journals and can practically recite “Supertraining” or “Science and Practice” or any other important S&C texts.

And yes, the system does address all of the things in my above post, though it doesn’t spell them out quite the same way.

DBAndre, I agree with you in full. Hip flexor and abdominal development is a much bigger part in sprint speed than most give it credit for. Unlike some coaches, I don’t think BW drills alone are optimal. Like every other muscle group, the hip flexors and abdominals need resistance in order to see continuous gains.

[rj24]

rj24 on April 1, 2009 at 5:07 pm #80229

Also, since it’s relevant to the discussion, I thought I’d throw up a post I made on the CF forums a few days ago. It’s about the hip flexors.

…As for why hip flexion is so important, that’s a bit tougher to answer.

One line of reasoning is that strong psoas muscles, combined with equally strong abdominals, could facilitate better/more efficient front side mechanics. With strong hip flexors and abs, the trail leg will not trail behind the body as much, and this point leads to two more sub-points.

Sub-point one is that stopping excess backside mechanics will put one in better position to run at top speed. If we look at the greatest sprint performers of this era (Bolt, Powell, Gatlin), the one thing that really stands out is amazing front side mechanics.

And sub-point two is that eliminating the backside mechanics will mean the legs are cycling over a smaller ROM. Since that’s the case, there will be more air time in each stride where the muscles aren’t contracting. During this extended air time, the body will have slightly more time to regenerate ATP and therefore running efficiency will be improved and endurance will rise (ie. you’ll be able to sustain higher speeds for longer periods of time).

The other line of reasoning is that during acceleration a powerful hip flexion will lead to a powerful hip extension of the opposite leg. There’s a thing called the inverse-extension reflex, and it makes it so when one leg is forcefully extended, the other other leg is forcefully flexed and vice versa. In this way, a more powerful hip flexion during either top speed or acceleration would lead to a stronger reflex-potentiated hip extension of the opposite leg.

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 1, 2009 at 8:24 pm #80234

[quote author="Jeremy Richmond" date="1238315073"]
High knees up a slope at high frequency – hip flexor training, resistance training to move the body up the hill, short ground contact time. (Is this regarded as a sprint drill?!)
Rapid PNF stretching (more likely resisting) – conditioning the muscles to resist the stretch and fight back accordingly.

While I by no means think that the leg swing is passive (ala Bearpowered crew) I also don’t think that much time should be devoted to very active hip flexor training. It seems you emphasize swing phase and frequency more than ground contact time…is this correct or am I misinterpreting? I’ve done high velocity PNFs before but never in an approach that used enough athletes or in a systematic manner where I could tell that it was a good stimulus or not. The problem I found was that in sprinting joint angles are very open / large when you touch down in sprinting and the stretch occurs VERY rapidly under very high loads. It’s very difficult to replicate this type of loading outside of plyometrics and sprinting. I’ve done some things in the weight room that attempt to do this but I’m still testing to see how well they work. We do RDLs (single and double leg) where the athlete drops and catches the weight; quasi-isometric back extensions on a GHR machine where the ROM is very small and the turn-arounds are very fast.

[/quote]

Well…no secrets are going to be taken to the grave.

Yes very true. Swing phase and frequency should be the emphasis. Ground contact time is really a good result of the the aforementioned.

I think high velocity PNF’s are just a good warm-up method. They remind the neuromuscular system of the process required in sprinting. Call it a mini dress rehearsal.
The more I think about the jump (or fall) & stick or in this case the RDL catching the more I agree to their efficacy. I like the single RDL catching method. Otherwise I think the drill where you kick the leg out in front and then paw back is an appropriate method but I couldn’t think of a way to overload the stretch reflex part. The single RDL might just satisfy that requirement.
Quasi-isometric back extensions with small ROM? Did you tell Bearpowered about this one or is that why you used the word quasi? I like this. I use a slightly less quasi or less isometric single alternating leg reverse hyperextension. Very rapid with about 7 cycles per second. No resistance on the leg but seeing as the leg weighs 16% of body weight or approximately 12 kg it is just the right amount of force required as you approach high speed. If I had a GHR I would try your method but it is already similar to my Japanese curls (modified Russian curls with a bow) also very rapid/ fast turn-around.

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 1, 2009 at 9:38 pm #80236

I like single leg squats and use them relatively frequently but I’ve always felt they are much more quad dominant than most forms of squatting.

[quote]If you’re going to strengthen your muscles then you should strengthen those muscles that rotate you about the knee rather than extend the knee. Watch yourself on video or in the mirror – are you extending the knee or rotating about it when sprinting?

I’m not sure what you mean by rotating. Can you explain?[/quote]

The rotation about the knee is taken from Jacobs and Van Ingen Schenau (1992) who found that the sprinter in the second step of sprinting delays extension of the knee until forward rotation about the knee has been achieved. In other words, the sprinter needs to rotate into a position whereby they can extend the knee (or else they could go backwards). This seems to be the case in the footage of Carl Lewis during the first few steps of sprinting.

The single leg squat does not satisfy rotation about the knee unless it is modified. It is a quad dominant exercise but one needs to stress the rectus femoris more than the other three muscles. Mero (1992) displays the activity of the rectus femoris during both the block start and first two steps. Jacobs, Bobbert and Van Ingen Schenau (1996) state the importance of the rectus femoris and biceps femoris in rotating the knee/ extending the hip in a sprint push-off in which it differed to a jump push-off.

So how do you modify the single leg squat to facilitate the outcomes above?

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 3, 2009 at 6:28 pm #80350

[quote author="Mike Young" date="1238536387"]
I’ve done high velocity PNFs before but never in an approach that used enough athletes or in a systematic manner where I could tell that it was a good stimulus or not. The problem I found was that in sprinting joint angles are very open / large when you touch down in sprinting and the stretch occurs VERY rapidly under very high loads. It’s very difficult to replicate this type of loading outside of plyometrics and sprinting. I’ve done some things in the weight room that attempt to do this but I’m still testing to see how well they work. We do RDLs (single and double leg) where the athlete drops and catches the weight; quasi-isometric back extensions on a GHR machine where the ROM is very small and the turn-arounds are very fast.

I think high velocity PNF’s are just a good warm-up method. They remind the neuromuscular system of the process required in sprinting. Call it a mini dress rehearsal.
The more I think about the jump (or fall) & stick or in this case the RDL catching the more I agree to their efficacy. I like the single RDL catching method. Otherwise I think the drill where you kick the leg out in front and then paw back is an appropriate method but I couldn’t think of a way to overload the stretch reflex part. The single RDL might just satisfy that requirement.
Quasi-isometric back extensions with small ROM? Did you tell Bearpowered about this one or is that why you used the word quasi? I like this. I use a slightly less quasi or less isometric single alternating leg reverse hyperextension. Very rapid with about 7 cycles per second. No resistance on the leg but seeing as the leg weighs 16% of body weight or approximately 12 kg it is just the right amount of force required as you approach high speed. If I had a GHR I would try your method but it is already similar to my Japanese curls (modified Russian curls with a bow) also very rapid/ fast turn-around.[/quote]

Today I tried the RDL’s both single and double leg with drop and catching of weights. I thought the single leg RDL drop and catch was pretty close to what is required in sprinting (and a more appropriate exercise than mine). I then tried to do it as a throw and catch from a single RDL and felt that was even better. Then I tried a single RDL with a cable machine pulling horizontally including a version of release and catch and felt that was even better. In general I felt the single RDL drop and catch was significantly better than exercises I have seen or tried in the past with the variations I experimented with just cream on the top.

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 4, 2009 at 1:08 pm #80369

I’m at school, so I don’t have all my notes with me, but I’d love to chime in.

As I see it, sprinting can be broken down into five main factors:
1) Stiffness (tendon stiffness + muscular stiffness)
2) Tension Tolerance (of muscles and tendons)
3) Anaerobic Development
4) Ability to Relax
5) Correct firing patterns @ ROM

Stiff muscles (aka eccentric RFD) are best produced through high speed eccentric loading (sprints, plyos, etc.) whereas stiffer tendons are produced by anaerobic endurance training, longer duration (~20 second) loaded isometrics, and weight training in general. As stiffer tendons allow better transmission of force from the muscles to the bones, it can be said that one can never have too stiff of tendons. Same goes for stiffer muscles, higher RFD is never a bad thing.

Tension tolerance is simply the muscles’ and tendons’ ability to deal with high forces, with the focus on the muscles in particular. Just because the muscles might have a high RFD does not mean that they have a high tension tolerance (ability to produce force). From a material sciences point of view, this would be like comparing aluminum to carbon fiber epoxy. Aluminum is much stronger, but carbon fiber epoxy is much stiffer. Having high strength and stiffness would be the best of all worlds. Basically what I’m saying here is that being fast (stiffness) is not enough, you need to be strong too (tension tolerance). It’s easy enough to do this. Just employ weights.

Anaerobic development is key as well, especially since the 1996 study by Elio Locatelli (The Importance of Anaerobic Glycolysis and Stiffness in the Sprints (60, 100, and 200M)) shows that 72% of the energy used in a 100M dash is delivered via anaerobic glycolysis. This number increases to 74% for the 200M. This study, and others, have shown that the faster an athlete ran over a certain distance, the higher their levels of blood lactate. This would indicate that faster athletes have a more powerful anaerobic glycolytic pathway. Another upside, training for anaerobic endurance has been shown to be the best way to increase tendon stiffness.

Tendon stiffness? That’s certainly one area I should know more about as I consider myself a tendon therapist. In fact, with regards to endurance training I have read about it but paid little attention to the details as I agree with it but believe that this area is almost fully developed with little scope for further improvement. Nevetheless any references would be greatly appreciated.

With regards to point 4, I am in full agreement with the ability to relax for sake of ATP sparing and regeneration. The study by Weyand (2000) is often used as a benchmark during debate. Whilst I agree with their conclusions on the basis of what they measured I think the conclusions are limited when put into the context of what occurs in actual sprinting. Yes the time to reposition the legs may be little different between slow and fast runners running at their respective maximums but for the faster sprinter, this time can be used to regenerate ATP or may be taken up invoking a greater stretch reflex in order to generate force on the backswing given that it may be difficult to voluntarily generate substantial force (in the horizontal direction) at high velocities of movement.

I also note in your response a mention of anaerobic glycolysis. I would like to discuss this further perhaps next weekend when the golf (US Masters) should allow for plentiful time to be filled with browsing through literature. The discussion will be about genetics (read skin colour) and anaerobic glycolysis. This gives us a week to brush up on notes.

Personally I think our discussion is far more effective and conclusive than the supertraining one. Perhaps we should copy and paste into their forum.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 4, 2009 at 2:58 pm #80237

The single leg squat does not satisfy rotation about the knee unless it is modified. It is a quad dominant exercise but one needs to stress the rectus femoris more than the other three muscles. Mero (1992) displays the activity of the rectus femoris during both the block start and first two steps. Jacobs, Bobbert and Van Ingen Schenau (1996) state the importance of the rectus femoris and biceps femoris in rotating the knee/ extending the hip in a sprint push-off in which it differed to a jump push-off.

So how do you modify the single leg squat to facilitate the outcomes above?

I don’t and I don’t really see the need to as I have other exercises for that purpose. I only brought it up as questioning your use of the single leg squat. Because of the leverage involved in the lift I’m not sure you can turn it in to a posterior chain dominant exercise and still have it be a single leg squat.

Here’s a video of the drop-catch RDLs (this one’s double support):

We do similar drop-catch actions with squatting and single leg RDLs.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 4, 2009 at 3:05 pm #80383

With regards to point 4, I am in full agreement with the ability to relax for sake of ATP sparing and regeneration. The study by Weyand (2000) is often used as a benchmark during debate. Whilst I agree with their conclusions on the basis of what they measured I think the conclusions are limited when put into the context of what occurs in actual sprinting. Yes the time to reposition the legs may be little different between slow and fast runners running at their respective maximums but for the faster sprinter, this time can be used to regenerate ATP or may be taken up invoking a greater stretch reflex in order to generate force on the backswing given that it may be difficult to voluntarily generate substantial force (in the horizontal direction) at high velocities of movement.

Is there any evidence to suggest this happens? The reason I ask is that it makes sense but the time frames of inactivity are SOOO short that ATP regeneration would be very limited. Depending on which muscle groups you’re looking at much of the swing phase is ACTIVE recruitment based on EMG studies.

Personally I think our discussion is far more effective and conclusive than the supertraining one. Perhaps we should copy and paste into their forum.

Nah…just let them come over here if they want there theories put to the test. Those guys couldn’t get away with there banter 8 years ago when Mel was around.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on April 4, 2009 at 4:18 pm #80405

I think high velocity PNF’s are just a good warm-up method. They remind the neuromuscular system of the process required in sprinting. Call it a mini dress rehearsal.

Are their any disadvantages to doing PNF stretches everyday vs. doing normal static stretches?

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on April 4, 2009 at 4:25 pm #80408

I don’t and I don’t really see the need to as I have other exercises for that purpose. I only brought it up as questioning your use of the single leg squat. Because of the leverage involved in the lift I’m not sure you can turn it in to a posterior chain dominant exercise and still have it be a single leg squat.

What if the SL Squat is done similar to the way the girl is doing it in this photo…

Venice Volleyball Update

…on a plyo box (or something similar) and by emphasizing a push off the heel?

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 4, 2009 at 4:29 pm #80409

[quote author="Jeremy Richmond" date="1238597690"]I think high velocity PNF’s are just a good warm-up method. They remind the neuromuscular system of the process required in sprinting. Call it a mini dress rehearsal.

Are their any disadvantages to doing PNF stretches everyday vs. doing normal static stretches?[/quote]I personally wouldn’t do either every day…unless the athlete is so tight that it’s limiting ranges of motion in the sprint stride. Excessively long muscles = weak, slow muscles. PNF as most people think of it (not the way Jeremy and I are discussing) will enhance flexibility and reduce contractile thresholds faster than any other method of stretching that I’m aware of. They can be used in the grand scheme of a training protocol but I don’t think traditional PNF stretching is something you want most sprinters to do on a daily basis.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on April 4, 2009 at 5:15 pm #80413

Excessively long muscles = weak, slow muscles.

You brought up something else I had in my mind. The opposite end of flexibility. If you have an athlete that has “too much” flexibility (excessively long, weak, slow muscles), how can you reverse this? Getting them stronger is too obvious of an answer.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 4, 2009 at 5:48 pm #80415

It’s not necessarily a problem since flexibility is an outcome of neurological (the ability of a muscle to relax) and musculotendonous issues. Is the athlete slow and unexplosive?

ELITETRACK Founder

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 4, 2009 at 5:53 pm #80416

[quote author="Mike Young" date="1238837334"]I don’t and I don’t really see the need to as I have other exercises for that purpose. I only brought it up as questioning your use of the single leg squat. Because of the leverage involved in the lift I’m not sure you can turn it in to a posterior chain dominant exercise and still have it be a single leg squat.

What if the SL Squat is done similar to the way the girl is doing it in this photo…

Venice Volleyball Update

…on a plyo box (or something similar) and by emphasizing a push off the heel?[/quote]I still think it’s quad dominant. Because the trunk angle stays so upright, the hips move straight down, and the knee is forced to move forward, the posterior chain doesn’t get worked as much. Similar to a front squat in fact in this regard. You’ll get some big glute activation at the bottom of the lift and the adductors will fire like crazy to stabilize but the hamstring won’t be taxed nearly as much as back squats.

ELITETRACK Founder

[rj24]

rj24 on April 4, 2009 at 5:58 pm #80417

Tendon stiffness? That’s certainly one area I should know more about as I consider myself a tendon therapist. In fact, with regards to endurance training I have read about it but paid little attention to the details as I agree with it but believe that this area is almost fully developed with little scope for further improvement. Nevetheless any references would be greatly appreciated.

With regards to point 4, I am in full agreement with the ability to relax for sake of ATP sparing and regeneration. The study by Weyand (2000) is often used as a benchmark during debate. Whilst I agree with their conclusions on the basis of what they measured I think the conclusions are limited when put into the context of what occurs in actual sprinting. Yes the time to reposition the legs may be little different between slow and fast runners running at their respective maximums but for the faster sprinter, this time can be used to regenerate ATP or may be taken up invoking a greater stretch reflex in order to generate force on the backswing given that it may be difficult to voluntarily generate substantial force (in the horizontal direction) at high velocities of movement.

I also note in your response a mention of anaerobic glycolysis. I would like to discuss this further perhaps next weekend when the golf (US Masters) should allow for plentiful time to be filled with browsing through literature. The discussion will be about genetics (read skin colour) and anaerobic glycolysis. This gives us a week to brush up on notes.

Personally I think our discussion is far more effective and conclusive than the supertraining one. Perhaps we should copy and paste into their forum.

Jeremy, I’m very interested in hearing about the genetic contribution to anaerobic glycolysis. I’ve never done any study in this particular area, so it’ll all be news to me.

On the topic of relaxation and ATP sparing, it does look like we’re in full agreement. As for how to train it, “Supertraining” lists a number of methods:
1) PNF Methods (we’ve already gotten to this)
2) Sudden unloading after a brief period of high tension
3) Autogenic/Visualisation training

Number 1 and 3 are straight forward enough, but point 2 is where we have more play. Sprinting fits the bill well, as do plyos, but the volume of those we can do is limited. This is where what Inno-Sport calls RFIs (reflexive-firing isometrics) might come in handy. They’re basically footwork drills like line hops, barrier jumps, and other things where the torso stays relatively static but the limbs move. Top speed sprinting is actually a form of RFI. Just a thought.

As for references regarding tendon stiffness, here are a few:
-Leg strength and stiffness as ability factors in 100 m sprint running
-Leg power and hopping stiffness: relationship with sprint running performance
-Relationships between strength qualities and sprinting performance
-Effects of different duration isometric contractions on tendon elasticity in human quadriceps muscles
-Effects of plyometric and weight training on muscle-tendon complex and jump performance
-Also, the book Running: Biomechanics and Exercise Physiology in Practice is a great book for all things running, except for training prescription.

Also, I agree that we’re making much more headway than the guys on the Supertraining List ever will. Then again, Yessis has shown himself dozens of times over to be a fool, so it’s not too surprising. He once said that by training the hip flexors for power endurance one could completely eliminate deceleration in the 400M. Yeah, he actually said that.

Mike, yes, the time it takes the legs to cycle is very short, and therefore the time in which ATP can be regenerated is even shorter, but every little bit helps. .01 extra seconds of relaxation in each stride equals out to nearly half a second over the course of 100M and nearly a full second of extra relaxation in the 200M. Having this much extra time in which the muscles aren’t contracted is huge in terms of energy consumption.

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 4, 2009 at 8:34 pm #80422

Also, I agree that we’re making much more headway than the guys on the Supertraining List ever will. Then again, Yessis has shown himself dozens of times over to be a fool, so it’s not too surprising. He once said that by training the hip flexors for power endurance one could completely eliminate deceleration in the 400M. Yeah, he actually said that.

Will you guys stop doing that! You are really making me want to buy his book just to see what all the fuss is about.

Before I discuss anaerobic glycolysis and ATP sparing, I think I should clarify my views on weightlifting and sprinting.

In case it seems that I am not really supportive of weightlifting let me point out the results of the study by Delecluse et al.(1995) mentioned previously in this thread, showing that strength training benefited the first 10-m of acceleration although nowhere near as much as plyometric training. However, subjects who had undertaken the plyometric training were not able to sustain their maximum speed whereas those that had done strength training were.

Which makes me wonder about the basis that Dr. Yessis has in making the statement about hip flexion strength and 400m deceleration. I think that Mann found that thigh flexion diminished as fatigue set in but many things diminish with fatigue. Hip flexion has been found to benefit early acceleration (Deanne et al. 2005). Strength or strength endurance in extension may seem more important for maintaining speed.

[mortac8]

mortac8 on April 4, 2009 at 9:18 pm #80423

[quote author="Jay Turner" date="1238842137"][quote author="Jeremy Richmond" date="1238597690"]I think high velocity PNF’s are just a good warm-up method. They remind the neuromuscular system of the process required in sprinting. Call it a mini dress rehearsal.

Are their any disadvantages to doing PNF stretches everyday vs. doing normal static stretches?[/quote]I personally wouldn’t do either every day…unless the athlete is so tight that it’s limiting ranges of motion in the sprint stride. Excessively long muscles = weak, slow muscles. PNF as most people think of it (not the way Jeremy and I are discussing) will enhance flexibility and reduce contractile thresholds faster than any other method of stretching that I’m aware of. They can be used in the grand scheme of a training protocol but I don’t think traditional PNF stretching is something you want most sprinters to do on a daily basis.[/quote]
Stretching… we static stretch for like 30 minutes every day (not in my control). In addition to that I have girls who stretch almost as long at meets (due to nervousness). And guess what??? They still will complain of tightness. When you just shotgun stretch everything (even if it’s 30min per day for 4 years), you never really organize anything and your same tension patterns remain. I have seen it about 999 times.

For best results, I really think that you have to selectively stretch some muscles and not others depending on the athlete(dynamic, static, whatever). I equate it to eating some of every food in your house each day…stretching everything is not necessary. When you go to a good therapist, does he treat every muscle in your body each session?

Jay, if you have someone that’s too flexible, detox them from stretching so much. It is an addiction for some. I have slow girls who can eat floor on straight-legged hurdler stretches and say they don’t feel a stretch doing that, so they make up some other contortion just so they can get a stretch so they are “stretching” like everyone else. My best athletes have historically had average to below average flexibility. As long as you feel free when running, you pretty much have the flexibility you need.

In regards to neural holding patters (or whatever you want to call it)…bodyworkers will often just sink to the tendonous attachments of muscles in order to facilitate a release of neural tension (affecting GTOs [golgi])…and it works quite well.

In summary, shotgun redundant static stretching sucks. It really does.

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 4, 2009 at 11:02 pm #80427

I’m very interested in hearing about the genetic contribution to anaerobic glycolysis. I’ve never done any study in this particular area, so it’ll all be news to me.

On the topic of relaxation and ATP sparing, it does look like we’re in full agreement. As for how to train it, “Supertraining” lists a number of methods:
1) PNF Methods (we’ve already gotten to this)
2) Sudden unloading after a brief period of high tension
3) Autogenic/Visualisation training

Number 1 and 3 are straight forward enough, but point 2 is where we have more play. Sprinting fits the bill well, as do plyos, but the volume of those we can do is limited. This is where what Inno-Sport calls RFIs (reflexive-firing isometrics) might come in handy. They’re basically footwork drills like line hops, barrier jumps, and other things where the torso stays relatively static but the limbs move. Top speed sprinting is actually a form of RFI. Just a thought.

Mike, yes, the time it takes the legs to cycle is very short, and therefore the time in which ATP can be regenerated is even shorter, but every little bit helps. .01 extra seconds of relaxation in each stride equals out to nearly half a second over the course of 100M and nearly a full second of extra relaxation in the 200M. Having this much extra time in which the muscles aren’t contracted is huge in terms of energy consumption.

Well I guess we can discuss genetics, anaerobic glcolysis and ATP sparing this weekend which will leave me to enjoy watching the golf next weekend.

Rahmani, Locatelli, and Lacour(2004) found that African sprinters were less powerful and less strong than Caucasian sprinters at high speeds in a squat movement. However, both groups had similar sprint times over 100-m.

Caucasian sprinter had post 100-m blood lactate concentrations almost twice as high as African sprinters of similar 100-m times (Hautier, Lacour, Arsac et al. 1993, Locatelli 1999, as cited in Arsac & Locatelli 2002).

This could suggest that African sprinters are less strong/powerful but produce less lactate than Caucasian sprinters. One would expect African sprinters to use more ATP to enable them to operate at a higher level of their maximum (although likely every step in sprinting is a maximum)to match the Caucasian sprinters. They either have greater ATP-PC stores (unlikely)or are sparing their ATP better. Less strength and power could suggest more succinct antagonist control to spare ATP and provide same the propulsion by reducing internal braking.

I favour the latter conclusion but welcome any opinions/discussion on the matter.

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 5, 2009 at 1:17 pm #80458

[quote author="dbandre" date="1238544379"]
Mike:

I don’t do core work specifically anymore those muscles get stressed enough in circuit training, sprinting, weight room, even in warm ups and cool downs. Situps and leg raises are about the only exercises I do along with mach drills as part of dynamic flex and mobility which are about as close as you can get to isolating hip flexors in my programs but certainly there is enough work in what my athletes have done.

I’d say this is pretty much the norm for most coaches….which is what I’m getting at. You said that most coaches don’t do enough hip-flexor work and that you add in extra. I’m saying that what you’ve described seems to be stuff that much sprint coaches already do (which is a good thing). Where does the extra come in to play? Or do you just not think that other coaches are doing all that stuff?[/quote]

Interestingly, Roger Mann et al. (1986) report no activity in the abdominal muscles whilst jogging and running but during sprinting they play a part just before and after take-off. Also they report substantial activity in the iliacus and tensor just after take-off.

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 5, 2009 at 1:29 pm #80459

[quote author="Mike Young" date="1238837334"]I don’t and I don’t really see the need to as I have other exercises for that purpose. I only brought it up as questioning your use of the single leg squat. Because of the leverage involved in the lift I’m not sure you can turn it in to a posterior chain dominant exercise and still have it be a single leg squat.

What if the SL Squat is done similar to the way the girl is doing it in this photo…

Venice Volleyball Update

…on a plyo box (or something similar) and by emphasizing a push off the heel?[/quote]

From EMG data (Mero et al. 1992) the contribution of rectus femoris strength is critical in the blocks and during the first three steps after. From that point I think the rectus plays less of a role compared to the vastus muscles. Further I feel the rectus femoris is largely underdeveloped in sprinting in that regard and therefore we can make a great (and efficient) difference here.

Whilst the Olympic lift can satisfy this to some extent in hip extension, I feel the restricted squat (Fry et al. 2003) provides far more rectus femoris contribution especially when the weight is held out in front. With this position the upper body leans back much like when doing the limbo. If anyone has any exercises they feel target the rectus femoris better in hip extension preferably combined with some knee extension please share with us.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 5, 2009 at 4:48 pm #80479

Mike, yes, the time it takes the legs to cycle is very short, and therefore the time in which ATP can be regenerated is even shorter, but every little bit helps. .01 extra seconds of relaxation in each stride equals out to nearly half a second over the course of 100M and nearly a full second of extra relaxation in the 200M. Having this much extra time in which the muscles aren’t contracted is huge in terms of energy consumption.

As I said it makes sense in theory and I understand perfectly what you’re saying but I’d like to see some evidence, even indirect, that this is happening. There are plenty of seemingly logical explanations which are actually refuted by research findings.

I tend to think relaxation is more important for what I call the WD40 effect….the wheels turn easier because there’s less agonist-antagonist interference and the agonist muscles are allowed to perform toward the objective without fighting overly cautious stabilizing / injury reducing antagonist resistance.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 5, 2009 at 4:56 pm #80480

For best results, I really think that you have to selectively stretch some muscles and not others depending on the athlete(dynamic, static, whatever). I equate it to eating some of every food in your house each day…stretching everything is not necessary. When you go to a good therapist, does he treat every muscle in your body each session?

I agree to some extent but the problem is that if you let this happen in team settings (with no structure), inevitably what seems to happen is that everyone does the same shite anyhow. And they don’t even do it well. They just follow whatever the person next to them is doing and don’t even pay any mind when they’re doing it to proper performance of the stretch. In a shotgun approach you can kind of control that. This is why I try to include a limited, generalized plan for stretching (otherwise it often won’t be done at all) that should be good for the bulk of people (hits lumbars, hip extensors and deep hip flexors) and then allow for choice stretching at the end with explicit instructions to stretch what you find tight.

RE: the stretching and nervousness connection…I hate it. I squash that as soon as I see it. Most of the times if athletes are aware of it then they know enough to limit it.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 5, 2009 at 4:59 pm #80481

Jeremy-
Can you clarify on the following:
1) What is a restricted squat?
2) Do you like single leg squats or not? I was initially under the impression that you did and your last post seems to make me think otherwise.

I personally don’t think RF needs much special attention. In my opinion it seems to be overworked compared to the posterior chain in most programs.

ELITETRACK Founder

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 5, 2009 at 6:10 pm #80491

Jeremy-
Can you clarify on the following:
1) What is a restricted squat?
2) Do you like single leg squats or not? I was initially under the impression that you did and your last post seems to make me think otherwise.

I personally don’t think RF needs much special attention. In my opinion it seems to be overworked compared to the posterior chain in most programs.

The restricted squat is one where the knee is restricted from moving beyond the toes. Nothing new really just has a name. Perhaps it encourages a bit more rotation about the knee.
In terms of single leg squats I like it only if it is restricted and even then I prefer the body position to replicate that of the second pull phase of an OL clean. Also it has to be mainly concentric (i.e. off a box) or else it will be too quad and glute (medius) dominant. I feel this trains the muscles in the co-ordinated fashion that replicates that of the sprint block start plus first three steps. The RF generally gets a lot of work in knee extension but during the early part of the race it must do more hip extension. It is based on strengthening in the specific patterns required in the actual event (Newton & Kraemer 1994, Schmidtbleicher 1992, Young 1993). The advantage of doing this specific type of resistance training as opposed to just sprinting is that we can promote adaptation in strength because we can increase the load.
Otherwise I like the (double leg) squat though I feel it facilitates stiffness endurance mainly in the later part of the race but also helps out a little in the initial acceleration phase with one-quarter the effect that plyometrics can.

In regards to posterior chain, if it being neglected by coaches they may be interested to know that the biceps femoris may actually play an equal if not greater role than the RF or Vastus muscles in the blocks and first few steps of sprinting (according to EMG in Mero et al. 1992 and studies by Jacobs, Van Ingen Schenau and Bobbert). For the posterior chain I favour the Russian hamstring curl (albeit quasi-isometric) with a good morning. If that is not clear enough, it is a good morning from a very bent knee position.

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on April 6, 2009 at 2:05 pm #80562

It’s not necessarily a problem since flexibility is an outcome of neurological (the ability of a muscle to relax) and musculotendonous issues. Is the athlete slow and unexplosive?

Yes. Very slow and unexplosive. Thoughts? Suggestions?

[James Smith]

James Smith on April 6, 2009 at 3:01 pm #80581

[quote author="Mike Young" date="1238842774"]Excessively long muscles = weak, slow muscles.

You brought up something else I had in my mind. The opposite end of flexibility. If you have an athlete that has “too much” flexibility (excessively long, weak, slow muscles), how can you reverse this? Getting them stronger is too obvious of an answer.[/quote]

The higher intensity regime of plyometric exercises (not limited to jumps) are one means of increasing muscle tone; which in my view, and of course in addition to a reduction in the ‘stretching’ load, will serve to ‘tighten’ the musculo-tendous structures. Properly regulated EMS may do the same.

Problematically, if it was an excessive volume of flexibility/stretching work that lead to the hyper-flexibility then it’s possible that ligaments were actually lengthened and I’m uncertain as to whether or not that situation can be reversed.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 6, 2009 at 3:38 pm #80590

Ligaments are generally regarded as being plastic in nature…once stretched beyond the yield point there’s not much that can be done to reverse the process short of surgery.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 6, 2009 at 3:45 pm #80592

In terms of single leg squats I like it only if it is restricted and even then I prefer the body position to replicate that of the second pull phase of an OL clean.

How do you do this? I’ve never seen anyone capable of limiting forward movement of the knee in the single leg squat.

Also it has to be mainly concentric (i.e. off a box) or else it will be too quad and glute (medius) dominant. I feel this trains the muscles in the co-ordinated fashion that replicates that of the sprint block start plus first three steps. The RF generally gets a lot of work in knee extension but during the early part of the race it must do more hip extension.

Do you mean hip flexion or are you referring to a lombard’s paradox situation?

Otherwise I like the (double leg) squat though I feel it facilitates stiffness endurance mainly in the later part of the race but also helps out a little in the initial acceleration phase with one-quarter the effect that plyometrics can.

Where does the ‘one-quarter’ effectiveness come from?

ELITETRACK Founder

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 7, 2009 at 5:19 am #80629

[quote author="Jeremy Richmond" date="1238935241"]
In terms of single leg squats I like it only if it is restricted and even then I prefer the body position to replicate that of the second pull phase of an OL clean.

How do you do this? I’ve never seen anyone capable of limiting forward movement of the knee in the single leg squat.

Also it has to be mainly concentric (i.e. off a box) or else it will be too quad and glute (medius) dominant. I feel this trains the muscles in the co-ordinated fashion that replicates that of the sprint block start plus first three steps. The RF generally gets a lot of work in knee extension but during the early part of the race it must do more hip extension.

Do you mean hip flexion or are you referring to a lombard’s paradox situation?

Otherwise I like the (double leg) squat though I feel it facilitates stiffness endurance mainly in the later part of the race but also helps out a little in the initial acceleration phase with one-quarter the effect that plyometrics can.

Where does the ‘one-quarter’ effectiveness come from?[/quote]

In the basic form, the restricted single leg concentric box squat with a leaning backward (2nd pull OL position) cannot be carried out to a balanced position and one must fall back on to the box where there should be ample padding. Being a scientist that never looks to prove the null hypothesis I found this to be the only exercise that gave substantial results in the early acceleration phase. If one needs to restrict that knee from moving beyond the toes one could employ another box that stands in front of the knee.
As one gets more advanced, the restricted single leg squat (etc. etc. etc) can be executed to a more balanced position by moving up on to the toes a little but the thigh-shin-foot angle must be preserved. You can call it Lombard’s paradox (hip extension)that I’m trying to facilitate but the previously mentioned sports scientists never referred to it as that probably for fear of intimidating the readership with big words.

The one-quarter effectiveness is taken from the study by Delecluse et al. (1995) who measured every inch of movement with a velocimeter. They also used a very large number of subjects which likely would have given the study a lot of power. Delecluse quoted a significance of p<0.05 between plyometrics and strength training in that regard. I actually underquoted the results which show the ratio to be more one-sixth.

From my own calculations, the plyometric programs that have a net horizontalness (more horizontal based exercises than vertical) have produced the greatest improvements.

[sizerp]

sizerp on April 7, 2009 at 5:59 am #80631

The higher intensity regime of plyometric exercises (not limited to jumps) are one means of increasing muscle tone …

What is the current opinion on muscle tone? Is it an issue coaches take under consideration? How much is desired, and how much is going to be detrimental to performance in the sprints on one hand, and the jumps on another?

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 7, 2009 at 12:38 pm #80668

In the basic form, the restricted single leg concentric box squat with a leaning backward (2nd pull OL position) cannot be carried out to a balanced position and one must fall back on to the box where there should be ample padding. Being a scientist that never looks to prove the null hypothesis I found this to be the only exercise that gave substantial results in the early acceleration phase.If one needs to restrict that knee from moving beyond the toes one could employ another box that stands in front of the knee.
As one gets more advanced, the restricted single leg squat (etc. etc. etc) can be executed to a more balanced position by moving up on to the toes a little but the thigh-shin-foot angle must be preserved.

It sounds like it’s somewhere between an old-school bodybuilding sissy squat using a specialized sissy squat machine and a leg extension. I’m leary any time natural movement (especially joint translation and rotation) is restricted.

You can call it Lombard’s paradox (hip extension)that I’m trying to facilitate but the previously mentioned sports scientists never referred to it as that probably for fear of intimidating the readership with big words.

They talked about rectus femoris as a hip extensor? I can’t say I’ve ever heard of it working that way. I’ve heard of biceps femoris acting as knee extensor and hip extensor but nothint with RF.

The one-quarter effectiveness is taken from the study by Delecluse et al. (1995) who measured every inch of movement with a velocimeter. They also used a very large number of subjects which likely would have given the study a lot of power. Delecluse quoted a significance of p<0.05 between plyometrics and strength training in that regard. I actually underquoted the results which show the ratio to be more one-sixth.

Do you have an abstract for the study? I'm not familiar with it. Are you saying that they found plyometrics to be 6x more effective than strength work at improving speed?

From my own calculations, the plyometric programs that have a net horizontalness (more horizontal based exercises than vertical) have produced the greatest improvements.

In most North American coaching circles the emphasis is on vertical plyos.

ELITETRACK Founder

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 10, 2009 at 10:25 am #81004

Do you have an abstract for the study? I’m not familiar with it. Are you saying that they found plyometrics to be 6x more effective than strength work at improving speed?

[quote]From my own calculations, the plyometric programs that have a net horizontalness (more horizontal based exercises than vertical) have produced the greatest improvements.

In most North American coaching circles the emphasis is on vertical plyos.[/quote]

https://www.ms-se.com/pt/re/msse/abstract.00005768-199508000-00015.htm;jsessionid=JpBHlyJtzgbR5741TX2w42tfkvpLJ89Y2r8ltTkBKBv3JvFbpzZn!-707522149!181195629!8091!-1

Hopefully I’m not contravening any copyright laws by posting the abstract below – in essence this serves as a great advertisement for the journal Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise

Influence of high-resistance and high-velocity training on sprint performance.

Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise. 27(8):1203-1209, August 1995.
DELECLUSE, CHRISTOPHE; COPPENOLLE, HERMAN VAN; WILLEMS, EUSTACHE; LEEMPUTTE, MARK VAN; DIELS, RUDI; GORIS, MARINA
Abstract:
The purpose of this study is to analyze the effect of high-resistance (HR) and high-velocity (HV) training on the different phases of 100-m sprint performance. Two training groups (HR and HV) were compared with two control groups (RUN and PAS). The HR (N = 22) and HV group (N = 21) trained 3 d.wk-1 for 9 wk: two strength training sessions (HR or HV) and one running session. There was a run control group (RUN, N = 12) that also participated in the running sessions (1 d.wk-1) and a passive control group (PAS, N = 11). Running speed over a 100-m sprint was recorded every 2 m. By means of a principal component analysis on all speed variables, three phases were distinguished: initial acceleration (0-10 m), building-up running speed to a maximum (10-36 m), and maintaining maximum speed in the second part of the run (36-100 m). HV training resulted in improved initial acceleration (P < 0.05 compared with RUN, PAS, and HR), a higher maximum speed (P < 0.05 compared with PAS), and a decreased speed endurance (P < 0.05 compared to RUN and PAS). The HV group improved significantly in total 100 m time (P < 0.05 compared with the RUN and PAS groups). The HR program resulted in an improved initial acceleration phase (P < 0.05 compared with PAS).

(C)1995The American College of Sports Medicine

High-resistance plus sprint training might have been better than just sprint training!
Plyometrics was more effective than high-resistance during the initial acceleration phase (0-10m). High-resistance and sprint training protocols were better at sustaining maximum speed. Not posted in the abstract is the 100-m pre and post training program times:
High resistance 12.45 to 12.42s, High velocity (plyometrics) 12.51 to 12.30s, Sprint training 12.29 to 12.37s. Bear in mind that any training on this population would have produced greater effects than with highly trained sprint athletes.

With regards to any of these training modalities in isolation or in combination, I'll use the analogy that the greatest cook and make good bread with any quality of ingredients but given the highest quality ingredients, the greatest cook can make an even greater bread.
Happy Easter.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 12, 2009 at 4:43 pm #81247

The study seems a little problematic. I’d have to check out the study but I don’t believe principal component analysis would be valid as there aren’t enough data points. I know because I have made this mistake before.

Also, the results show that sprint training actually made people SLOWER? Do the authors explain that? Finally, do the HR and HV groups do sprint training also? If not the results are largely as I would expect due to the fact that the HR work is further removed on the F-V continuum than what is required in sprinting than HV is.

ELITETRACK Founder

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 12, 2009 at 6:09 pm #81258

The study seems a little problematic. I’d have to check out the study but I don’t believe principal component analysis would be valid as there aren’t enough data points. I know because I have made this mistake before.

Also, the results show that sprint training actually made people SLOWER? Do the authors explain that? Finally, do the HR and HV groups do sprint training also? If not the results are largely as I would expect due to the fact that the HR work is further removed on the F-V continuum than what is required in sprinting than HV is.

When one takes into account the standard deviation (approx. 0.5s) for all groups, statistically it is quite likely that the results are in fact the same. The HV group is a little different but still within statistical limits. Both the HR and HV groups did sprint training as well. In terms of acceleration over the first 10m Rimmer and Seivert (2000) also concluded that plyometrics benefited in this area.

Do you have access to the study (otherwise I’ll be happy to post you a copy)?

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 13, 2009 at 9:57 pm #81395

Here’s a video of the drop-catch RDLs (this one’s double support):
[youtube]h5NpsWp8Zj4[/youtube]

We do similar drop-catch actions with squatting and single leg RDLs.

I missed this previously. Drop-catch actions in squatting? This definitely increases the specificity. Must have a strong core though.

It seems that there is widespread anecdotal support for heavy lifting in an exercise such as the squat to benefit sprinting which cannot be denied. I estimated using the Newtonian model that Ben Johnson produced 131kg of force (resultant not horizontal) during the first step. That is substantial strength from one leg. More importantly he produced this force in about 180ms (estimated) which makes it substantial rate of force development. Do your maths and it’s not hard to figure out that equates to a lot of squatting power. Likely the ability to squat to the equivalent of Ben’s force generation in that time frame is not feasible which necessitates greater squatting requirements to improve the force-time curve and necessitates the addition of plyometrics or Olympic lifts or ballistic throws to help improve RFD (rate of force development).

The drop-catch in squatting would also apply.

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 13, 2009 at 10:58 pm #81396

[quote author="Mike Young" date="1238847545"]It’s not necessarily a problem since flexibility is an outcome of neurological (the ability of a muscle to relax) and musculotendonous issues. Is the athlete slow and unexplosive?

Yes. Very slow and unexplosive. Thoughts? Suggestions?[/quote]

If we need to increase the attractiveness of our sport to the public (without abandonment of flowers or promoting wearing of tights) we need to address this population’s inability to move quickly. If we can influence many team sports participants to physical participation or visual appreciation of our sport the result will be positive ramifications for sponsorship and funding. However at present it seems that we only have endless strength routines (or extensive tempo) to offer this population that probably lacks the time or is hesistant to risk injury or is fearful of contamination with the physiological requirements of their sport for which the above mentioned training methods will influence. Therefore we need more succinct methods for which the person you refer to can be a subject.

Is this slow and unexplosiveness limited to the sprint start – blocks or first few steps?
How does this person react to a low depth jump?
Can they cycle their arms quickly such as when boxing?

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on April 14, 2009 at 6:31 pm #81483

[quote author="Jay Turner" date="1239006976"][quote author="Mike Young" date="1238847545"]It’s not necessarily a problem since flexibility is an outcome of neurological (the ability of a muscle to relax) and musculotendonous issues. Is the athlete slow and unexplosive?

Yes. Very slow and unexplosive. Thoughts? Suggestions?[/quote]

If we need to increase the attractiveness of our sport to the public (without abandonment of flowers or promoting wearing of tights) we need to address this population’s inability to move quickly. If we can influence many team sports participants to physical participation or visual appreciation of our sport the result will be positive ramifications for sponsorship and funding. However at present it seems that we only have endless strength routines (or extensive tempo) to offer this population that probably lacks the time or is hesistant to risk injury or is fearful of contamination with the physiological requirements of their sport for which the above mentioned training methods will influence. Therefore we need more succinct methods for which the person you refer to can be a subject.

Is this slow and unexplosiveness limited to the sprint start – blocks or first few steps?
How does this person react to a low depth jump?
Can they cycle their arms quickly such as when boxing?[/quote]

Is this slow and unexplosiveness limited to the sprint start – blocks or first few steps? No it is not limited to those things. It’s pretty much everything.

How does this person react to a low depth jump? Not sure what you mean by this. Please explain further.

Can they cycle their arms quickly such as when boxing? I actually tested them on this not too long ago, and the answer is no.

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on April 14, 2009 at 6:43 pm #81484

[quote author="Jay Turner" date="1238842564"][quote author="Mike Young" date="1238837334"]I don’t and I don’t really see the need to as I have other exercises for that purpose. I only brought it up as questioning your use of the single leg squat. Because of the leverage involved in the lift I’m not sure you can turn it in to a posterior chain dominant exercise and still have it be a single leg squat.

What if the SL Squat is done similar to the way the girl is doing it in this photo…

Venice Volleyball Update

…on a plyo box (or something similar) and by emphasizing a push off the heel?[/quote]I still think it’s quad dominant. Because the trunk angle stays so upright, the hips move straight down, and the knee is forced to move forward, the posterior chain doesn’t get worked as much. Similar to a front squat in fact in this regard. You’ll get some big glute activation at the bottom of the lift and the adductors will fire like crazy to stabilize but the hamstring won’t be taxed nearly as much as back squats.[/quote]

Ok, well lets talk about squats. What about deep squats? Would this also be considered a quad dominant exercise? Also, for those who can’t deep squat, what are the progressions one can use to develop the ability to do so?

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 14, 2009 at 8:14 pm #81485

Is this slow and unexplosiveness limited to the sprint start – blocks or first few steps? No it is not limited to those things. It’s pretty much everything.

How does this person react to a low depth jump? Not sure what you mean by this. Please explain further.

Can they cycle their arms quickly such as when boxing? I actually tested them on this not too long ago, and the answer is no.

Firstly I’m by no means an expert but will offer my best advice.
What are these person’s current standards? (i.e. 20m time is a good start)
What would this person be happy with?
How long have they been trying to run faster?

At this stage I’m presuming that it is a neurological insufficiency. Moving quickly requires fast electrical output from the brain whilst minimising simultaneous antagonist activation. However the task of sprinting is very complex. The only way to overcome this is to improve their skill at activating (and deactivating antagonist) muscles for which one should start by simplifying the sprinting task. How fast can they cycle their legs in a drill like a high knee drill although you may want to reduce the variables by just suggesting as fast a frequency of movement as possible regardless of leg height. If they can at achieve at least 5 steps per second then increase the range of motion otherwise persist until frequency improves for which many repetitions (not to fatigue)is required. If they achieve a reasonable rate of leg turnover with decent range of motion add distance as a variable.

In terms of depth jump, its another word for drop jump. Low height at first to determine if the ‘subject’ has the ability to pre-activate prior to contact with the ground or is waiting to touch the ground and then reacting.

That’s my 2 cents worth. Your thoughts?

[getit]

getit on April 15, 2009 at 12:15 am #81489

Ok, well lets talk about squats. What about deep squats? Would this also be considered a quad dominant exercise? Also, for those who can’t deep squat, what are the progressions one can use to develop the ability to do so?

One limiting factor that prevents athletes from deep squatting is ankle flexibility. If you ask them to deep squat without any weight youll probably notice some athletes come up on their toes which will put a lot of pressure on the patella.

[Josh Hurlebaus]

Josh Hurlebaus on April 15, 2009 at 12:43 am #81490

I’ve always thought that heels being raised during a squat was more of a sign of inflexibility throughout the entire posterior, not just limited to the ankle.

[getit]

getit on April 15, 2009 at 1:50 am #81491

I’ve always thought that heels being raised during a squat was more of a sign of inflexibility throughout the entire posterior, not just limited to the ankle.

This could very well be true. I have no evidence to back up my claim. Another thing ive noticed is these same people cannot stay upright at the bottom position. They tend to bend over from the waist. I don’t know if that would be attributed to poor posterior chain flexibility, poor core strength, or both.

[RussZHC]

RussZHC on April 15, 2009 at 3:14 am #81499

Re: deep squats
I would add poor initial instruction or longer bouts of training without corrections (both mostly at the doorstep of a coach) as well as doing weights you are not capable of doing with proper/reasonable form (down often to the athlete) to the list of items.

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 15, 2009 at 4:29 am #81504

Ok, well lets talk about squats. What about deep squats? Would this also be considered a quad dominant exercise? Also, for those who can’t deep squat, what are the progressions one can use to develop the ability to do so?

I’ve always found that a deep squat (executed with a wider stance more common in powerlifting) activated adductors as well as glutes. In this regard I’ve never found an exercise that is better at recruiting adductors and the adductor is very important for sprinting according to numerous researchers such as Wiemann & Tidow 1995. I also see nothing worng with doing this squat with a block of wood just under the heels.

[rj24]

rj24 on April 15, 2009 at 5:57 am #81508

Jeremy, why would you propose doing squats with blocks underneath the heels? All you’d be doing would be increasing quadriceps involvement and stress on the knees.

[JeremyRichmond]

JeremyRichmond on April 15, 2009 at 8:44 am #81516

Jeremy, why would you propose doing squats with blocks underneath the heels? All you’d be doing would be increasing quadriceps involvement and stress on the knees.

Actually I’m not proposing two legged squats especially deep ones for sprinting. They are not as explosive or recruitment pattern specific as I like them to be. I’m only proposing how to do a deep squat in the easiest way which could incidentally develop glutes for increased muscle mass and shape and adductors for increased muscle mass (or maintenance of strength and muscle mass in both).