8 steps and 7 Steps

How tall is your athlete?

To me the biggest issue with the 7 step approach would be getting into a rythmn that is similar to the steps in between the hurdles in the last three strides going into H1. Then the adjustment isn’t very difficult adjusting to getting his feet down between hurdles. When I look at his 7 step approach it looks like he gets better velocity with that approach, but he is lengthening his stride in the last steps going into H1. In the 8 step it looks like he’s a bit close to the hurdle so his takeoff is compromised. I wonder if as he got stronger he could push out bigger especially in steps 1-3, then tighten it up in the last three steps. I haven’t worked with enough male hurdlers to know how possible that is.

It didn’t seem like one was distinctly faster than the other at this stage, have you timed him to determine which one is faster to the first hurdle?

I was hand timing on first movement out of curiosity.

It looked like the seven step was a lot smoother. It actually makes me wonder why I have never thought to try that. I am always running up on the first hurdle, I start my blocks 6 inches farther back than normal and have to stutter, thanks for bringing this up.

I am in no means trying to start a revolution but it takes a WR Holder like Robles to validate 7 steps working. Not all can do it but how many can? The problem is that many in college down 8 step right so 7 steps is thrown out. Like 300 or 400 hurdles in HS, I think all kids should practice 100m acceleration patterns as well as 110m patterns to give them a skill set of acceleration ability.

His PR is 15.3 HT but 14.4-14.6 is realistic this year. Goals for him is Sub 14 senior year.

Ya I agree, but I would definitely like to try it out. Im fairly fast(10.74 100m) and I always feel like my 60m hurdle race is simply a recovery from a bad first hurdle. Do you think with the 7 step it lets you have an extra 1 or 2 drive contacts instead of me having to pop up right away?

I think 7 steps could work well if the athletes are strong enough and really push out of blocks. I feel that most are too worried about seeing the hurdle and force themselves up too soon. Because of this they’ll end up reaching to takeoff.

The main problem I have with 7 step approaches is that it needs to be included only if they can perform in meets better or the same as an 8 approach. With most HS programs barely running with a shortage of track coaches how many athletes should be doing 7 steps? I would argue that 7 steps is equal to the amount of of left handed vs right handed people. 8 steps for everyone (99%?).

His velocity is better with 7 steps but his is more consistent with 8 steps over 39. Also at hurdle three he is in a better rhythm. The velocity is not much better at 7 yet but practicing 7 gets his first 3-4 steps better and it’s easier to go down and work turnover for 8 with you have the strength for 7.

I see where 7 would have the distinct advantage in the long-term but I would think that 8 steps will remain the norm for 99% of the population. As you have pointed out, the rhythm of the race needs to be established early and ingrained. The 7 step rhythm requires a distinct switch in stride pattern, which would throw most novices. I remember reading an article on Robles and how he had to adjust to the rhythm change.

Still interesting though, what does your athlete feel more comfortable with at the moment?

I am in no means trying to start a revolution but it takes a WR Holder like Robles to validate 7 steps working. Not all can do it but how many can? The problem is that many in college down 8 step right so 7 steps is thrown out. Like 300 or 400 hurdles in HS, I think all kids should practice 100m acceleration patterns as well as 110m patterns to give them a skill set of acceleration ability.

His PR is 15.3 HT but 14.4-14.6 is realistic this year. Goals for him is Sub 14 senior year.

Robles is very interesting to me. His trail leg comes very high and down quickly then steps 2 and 3 look slow like he’s bounding with a very low knee lift the two steps preceding the hurdle. It doesn’t look to me quite like the choppy shuffles like Liu and others. I think he takes off further than most elites too. The Paris Golden League was the first time I saw him in person and I thought wow he’s just jogging and killing everyone, then the time came up at 12.88 and I was stunned.

If you are going to keep speaking to the hurdles at a higher level than us mortals, would ya at least invest in a tripod. That way I have a fighting chance to see (in YouTube) what you are seeing in person.

Do the blocks “ring” “sing” as he departs?

To borrow from an earlier subject of yours, if he employs a “cut step” out of the blocks
(not sure due to vid quality, but think thats what I am seeing) how does that factor into all the concerns around coming up on # 1, trail leg over #1, general H rhythm, and actual speed observed at #3.

Then, (speaking of the 7 or 8) in general how do you feel about neg. shin angle out to 3?

Re: Tripod. You will be most happy with how much better your ability to review his film.

As far as hurdles, I am tugging on Superman’s cape but for what its worth if you are trying to keep him down longer off the line, I watch and speak to shin angle more/before upper body. As you mentioned, it will improve in part from greater strength both out of the blocks and working the ground. My experience viewing HS guys, is that sub 14 and the quality of the first 3 steps are inseparable.

Am still gonna stick with my statement that sub 14 will be coming from CNS / motor improvements away from the sticks. My thinking is similar to the L/S vs S/L concept. You will only gain so much (drop so much time)over the sticks. In tandem with the 7 or 8 discussion, I’d bet that Robles strength & speed were in place prior to settling on 7.

Little CFKA in training is trying to drive a block thru the big screen, gotta go…

The trail side appears to be better in a few ways coming off 7 steps.
I am going through this debate (7 v. 8) with an athlete a couple of years older and about the same height but, I would guess, not as strong. It is the building of strength that has become our focus and with that things are already starting to change, hence the debate (I am looking at this time next year…given the progression over the last 18 months).
Two of the things previous responses have touched on:
a)being too upright, too soon; the athlete I am working with had much changed for the better when he became fully aware of 1H at the 5th stride or later (partly to set up for the remaining flights at 3 stride rhythm) as opposed to head fully up at the first or second stride
b)changing from the touchdown at 1H being an important “control” to the touchdown at 3H in that I am less concerned about really short time to TD at 1H as opposed to being able to accelerate better off 1H, 2H and 3H and attempting to continue this pattern.
In a way (b) plays a big role since compared to years past the athlete I coach is more likely to be even with competitors instead of ahead as in the past at 1H TD (psychological factor) and this may cost a few races over 60mH indoors BUT overall I expect the 110mH times to be reduced (same range you refer to, low 14s, high 13s) as the acceleration skills after TD are already improving “unit times”. 7 steps to 1H will again put him ahead of competitors but by next year he will be that much stronger and other skills, acceleration, will have also improved.
The topic, 8 steps and 7 steps, to me, is long term. Good to very good “now” or truly superior in the future.

I didn’t notice this, but David Oliver has also switched to 7 steps (also using 7 during his injury-shortened 2009 season)

2008 Oly Trials semi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4oPTJ5mgZg
2010 USATF: https://www.universalsports.com/video/assetid=bb23fac2-71e9-4943-a385-ce07cfdc270e.html