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    800 meter runner? 400 meter runner ?

    Posted In: Endurance

        • Member
          alexkring on June 2, 2004 at 10:02 am #9354

          All through high school I ran the hurdles and trained for the 110 and 300 boys hurdles while also running on the 4×4 team. However, I think I may be a better 800 meter runner as I lack speed. I think that I am only good at the hurdles due to my form, but I am not sure. I would like to train in the summer for one of these events, but which should I train for? The 400 hurdles or the 800? Here are some of my personal bests:

          300 IH: 41.2
          110 HH: 15.1
          400: 53.0

          I am tall and kinda gangly ( 6 ft 4 180 lbs ) and I am wondering which event I would have the most natural ability in so I can train over the summer for that event, and hopefully run it in college. I beleive I could have gotten better times this past year but I was out for half of the year due to a hamstring injury, so these were my times at the district and state meet after not running for 3 weeks due to an injury. I keep debating between the 400 hurldes and the 800, I am not sure if I could be potentially good at the 800 or not.

        • Participant
          CoachKW on June 2, 2004 at 7:16 pm #28706

          The 800 isn't an event to go to because you lack speed unless you have exceptional endurance. Having said that, I am looking at your marks and thinking just opposite in that you appear to have nice speed. My thinking is that you should run the events(s) that you have the most desire to run. If you wish to keep hurdling then do that.

          Edwin Moses couldn't break 51 for the flat 400 in hs and went 47.03 in the 400 hurdles long after he was out of college because he went with his passion.

          I'm not predicting that you'll break a world record, but I am advising you to go for what you want the most and not to feel as though what you ran or didn't run in high school should necessarily dictate what you'll run in college.

          Good luck

        • Member
          alexkring on June 3, 2004 at 1:34 am #28707

          Thank you for the advice, it is much appreciated, but I still have some questions. My goal is to be able to run college track at Penn State University as a walk on, and so I am going to train hard this summer. If I do not have enough time to train this summer in order to make the team, then I will train this summer and all of next year in hope of making the team my sophomore year in college. But my question is this: Do I have the natural ability to be able to run fast enough times in the 400 to be a good 400m hurdler? It is to my understanding that people are born with slow and fast twitch muscle fibers, making some better at sprints and some better at distance. Some people are born naturally fast, I do not think I have that much natural ability. As a freshman I ran a 58 second PR in the 400, which is rather slow, and as a senior I got it down to a 53. I want to know if I am capable of running a sub 50 second 400 with enough training, or if that is beyond my capability. I need to run some good times to be able to run for Penn State, 41.2 in the 300 hurdles is not cutting it. My desire lies within the hurdles, but I love track in general, and I would also enjoy training for the 800. But which event do I have more naturabl ability in? I believe I ran a 5:39 mile as a fresman for soccer after about a month of training. I want to get very good at one event, and I will train extremely hard to get good at that event, I just do not know what to for. If I train for the 400 I would like to be able to run a sub 51 or a sub 50, and if I were to train for the 800 I would like to run it in about 1:55 or better. These are some good times, and I will train as hard as possible to get good at either of these events. I know that if I train in the 400 I will naturally become better at the 400 hurdles, tahts why I am talking about getting good 400 times.

          And if this is of any help, I think my PR in the 200 was a high 23 or a low 24 at practice. I remember running a 24.3 at the peak of my junior year, but I was injured halfway through the season at my senior year, so for my senior year I really did not have much training to get a lot better.

        • Member
          alexkring on June 3, 2004 at 1:55 am #28708

          Maybe I should some of my strength related stats as that plays a part into speed. Well in season here were my stats:

          height: 6 ft 4
          weight: 180-185 lbs
          bench: 225
          squat: usually repped 5 sets of 5 with 225, not sure of my max.
          deadlift: usually repped 335 for 6 reps on my 4th and final set, so im guessing I could max at about 380.
          abs: 126 situps in 2 minutes
          clean and press: usually repped with 125 for 6-8 reps on last set.

          These were my in season stats taht corresponded to my track PRs of my senior year.

        • Participant
          fraek on June 3, 2004 at 6:02 am #28709

          Comparing your 110 HH time to your 400 time i would have to say that you are faster than you give yourself credit. I'm like your twin (6'3" 175), but from what you bench you seem to be much stronger than me(i can barely put up155). My pr's are 15.4-110HH's, 51.5-400, and 400ih- 55.9. The thing about the 400ih is that it is one of the hardest and most technical races. If I were you i probably wouldn't go with the 800m in college, to run a 1:55 like you explained you would need to be able to run under 50 in the 400 and have strong endurance. I would stick with the 110's and add the 400ih. You should utilize your hurdling ability.

          Also i agree with KW, do what ever makes you happy. And if being good at something makes you happy than do it.

        • Member
          alexkring on June 3, 2004 at 7:09 am #28710

          I just do not see myself as becoming a fast 110 meter hurdler due to my lack of speed. I can only run a 24 second 200 which is not fast compared to those who run sub 22. The only other short distance I have been timed in is the 30 meter dash which is a test of your starting speed, which is my biggest weakness; out of the blocks I am pretty bad. I think I probably could have gotten down to a 14.8 had I not gotten injured, but that is still a decent way from where I would need to be.

          But if you are saying that I am a better 110 hurdler than 300 hurdler, should I be training for the 110s? Or should I train for the 400 IH because I am going to need the endurance for that race.

          Here is my workout program for this summer that I just recently started:

          Monday: 6 x 200m w/ 3' rest followed by lifting.
          Tuesday: tempo (i.e- 8 x 150m on grass at 80% with 45' rest) followed by aux light lifting
          Wednesday: 2 x (20m, 30m, 40m); then 2 x 150m followed by lifting.
          Thursday: 15 minutes Fartlek or aerobic capacity circuit followed by aux light lifting
          Friday: 5 x 300m w/ 2' rest followed by lifting.
          Saturday: 30 minute jog
          Sunday: rest

          Is this a good program for me? Or should I be doing something different. This program is ideal for a 400 meter runner and that was what I was looking to improve in order to run a better 400 IH race.

          My PRs as of my junior year were 15.5 in the 110s and 41.4 in the 300s. I know 41.2 second change from junior to senior year is practically nothing in the 300 IH, but like I said, I was injured, and I ran that time after not running for 3 and a half weeks at the state meet while I still had a semi-injured hamstring. I ran the 15.1 time the day before I was injured, which was exactly half-way through the season. Each year I was about the same in skill for both events. Usually I would place the same at the district meet (i.e. I would get third in the 110s and third in the 300s. ) But, I did not really train all that much for the 300s, as I really did not know how to make a good 300 IH workout. The hardest workouts I ever completed were 4 200s or 3 300s with large breaks in between! I mean that is not a very hard workout, but our coach did not know much about training and he really undertrained us. It was only until recently that I realized I should really change my workout routine.

          Because I never really had training for the 400, I think I could improve upon that time the most. Do you think if I focused on the 400IH that I would be better at those than at the 110 HH? I really do not know what event I should focus on, but I definately think I am too slow to be a good 110 hurdler. Maybe I am wrong, what do you think?

        • Participant
          CoachKW on June 3, 2004 at 7:22 pm #28711

          You have very good questions and seem to have a good grasp of developmental issues pertaining to speed and endurance. Again, I feel like you should go for what you know. The training for the 400h and the 800 would be remarkably similar. With that type of training, you could make yourself a viable candidate for the 4 x 4 and the 4 x 8 as well. Before you make plans for PSU, you need to contact Coach Groves to find out what the policy is for walk ons as many Big 10 schools have roster limits for the men. I don't say this to discourage you, but to encourage you to know what you're up against.

          Some of the answers you seek can only be borne out over time. Someone told you that in order to run 1:55, you need to have sub 50 speed and I do not agree with that at all. I never broke 51, yet ran 1:53, but as that person pointed out, you do need to improve endurance to get to that point. I do agree that your marks have shown that you might be better suited for the intermediates than the highs, but the collegiate years should present a chance to experience big developmental increases since your body will now be reaching full maturity.

          Good luck with whatever you decide

        • Member
          alexkring on June 4, 2004 at 12:50 am #28712

          So does my summer training program look good or should I change some stuff?

        • Member
          400stud on June 5, 2004 at 2:12 am #28713

          I think your summer program looks fine. It's a pretty basic sprinter summer program (proposed by mike I believe?).

          One thing you might could look at is the UW-LX program posted in the "Hypothetical Thought" thread in the Classics forum. It starts off with lots of tempo and strength work early which is just what you might need for the 400h and open 400. Plus, with the great base it provides, you should really be able to open up and tap into some hidden speed you got as well seeing as how fit and ready to go you'll be. Just a thought…

        • Participant
          CoachKW on June 5, 2004 at 3:12 am #28714

          Your summer program looks a bit too event specific to me. It doesn't seem that it would be too awfully different from what you would do during the competition phase of your training. If you are ok with that, then fine, but I like to have long sprinters do some other things during the summer such as improve their general strength and endurance. So towards that end I like to see them biking, lifting, swimming in addition to general endurance and speed maintainance activities.

          I haven't had a chance to look at the program Eric suggested yet, but by the way he described it, that might just be thing. I like variety during the summer so that training during the school year doesn't get so monotonous. But I'm coming at it from a middle distance runners perspective.

          What you do during the summer will be driven by the event you choose to specialize in so the sooner that's decided the better as far as planning goes.

          Hope we've been helpful to you on here.

          :dance:

        • Member
          400stud on June 5, 2004 at 3:52 am #28715

          Well put it this way. I wouldn't recommend something I wouldn't be willing to try myself. At first I was a bit apprehensive about the program seeing as how slow a lot of the runs are, but it's for base and early season work so the work doesn't need to be fast and probably shouldn't be. The following is my program (though I did tweak the final product some more) starting in fall and going through my indoor training peak (READ: not a competition peak…big difference). Something to look at and ponder upon. And remember, it's okay to start off slower at first. It just allows you to run faster later.

          -and a side note…you don't have to hit every time exactly. Like the 350 @ PR pace +:27. That's ridiculously slow. However, you wanna be consistent so if you're going to go faster, make sure it's consistent. Early on you don't wanna be too far ahead of goal paces (+/- :01-:03), but as things get faster, so can you. All workouts in trainers (preferably) and with GOOD FORM.

          Enjoy!

          10/4 – Seagrave Drills
          10/5 – Seagrave Drills
          10/6 – Seagrave Drills
          10/7 – Seagrave Drills
          10/8 – Seagrave Drills

          10/11 – Seagrave Drills
          10/12 – Seagrave Drills
          10/13 – Seagrave Drills
          10/14 – Seagrave Drills
          10/15 – Seagrave Drills

          10/18 – 8 x 200 @ :35 (2:30 rest)
          10/19 – 2 x 500 @ +:15 (15min) / 1600m run
          10/20 – 2 ½ mile run
          10/21 – Plyos I / 2 x 10 Stadiums
          10/22 – 20:00 easy run

          10/25 – 8 x 200 @ :34 (2:15 rest)
          10/26 – Plyos I / 2 x 10 Stadiums
          10/27 – 3 x 1200 @ 5:00 (3min walk)
          10/28 – 3 x ASU Hills (200M) (sprint up – walk down)
          10/29 – 25:00 run

          11/1 – 8 x 200 @ :33 (5-man relay style)
          11/2 – 4 x 500 @ +:22 / 400 (3min)
          11/3 – 15:00 run
          11/4 – 2 x 6 x ASU Hills (40m) (sprint up – walk down) – 5 min b/t sets
          11/5 – 1 x 200 @ :33 (5min rest) / 3 x 800 @ 2:45 (10min rest)

          11/8 – 8 x 200 @ :32 (2:15)
          11/9 – 3 x 6 x ASU Hills (40m) (sprint up – walk down) – 5 min b/t sets
          11/10 – 6 x 350 @ +:27 slower than PR pace (1:30 rest)
          11/11 – Plyos I / 2 x 10 stadiums
          11/12 – 3 x 1200 @ 5:00 (3min walk)

          11/15 – 8 x 200 @ :30 (5-man relay style)
          11/16 – 2 x 4 x ASU Hills (40m) (sprint up – walk down) – 5 min b/t sets
          11/17 – 3 x 350 @ :58-:60 (200m walk)
          11/18 – 1 x 200 @ :31 / 3 x 600 @ 1:38 (10min walk) / 1 x 200 @ :33
          11/19 – Plyos II / 2 x 10 Stadiums

          11/22 – 8 x 200 @ :31 (5-man relay style)
          11/23 – 2 x 3 x ASU Hills (200m) (run up — walk down) – 15:00 rest
          11/24 – 4 x 500 @ +:22 / 400 (3:00 walking rest)

          11/29 – 9 x 200 @ :30 (2min)
          11/30 – 1 x 200 @ :33 / 3 x 600 @ +:14 / 400 (15min)
          12/1 – Plyos I / 2 x 10 Stadiums
          12/2 – 20:00 run
          12/3 – 3 x 6 x ASU Hills (40m) (sprint up – walk down) – 5 min b/t sets

          12/6 – 10 x 200 @ :30 (2 min)
          12/7 – 1 x 200 @ :32 / 3 x 350 @ :56-:58 (3min walk) / 1 x 200 @ :33
          12/8 – Plyos II / 2 x 10 Stadiums
          12/9 – 20:00 run
          12/10 – 2 x 3 x ASU Hills (200m) – run up / walk down (15min rest)

          12/13 – 6 x 200 @ :30 (5-man relay style)
          12/14 – 3 x 150 accels / 2 x 600 @ +:14 (15 min) / 1 x 200 @ :30
          12/15 – 1 x 200 @ :30 / 600-400-200-400-600 @ :38 / 200m (5min) / 1 x 200 @ :30
          12/16 – 1 x 200 @ :30 / 2 x 450 @ +:07 & +:11 (15 min) / 3 x 200 @ :29-:28-:27
          12/17 – Plyos II / 3 x 10 Stadiums
          12/18 – 3 x 3 x ASU Hills (200m) (sprint up – walk down) – 5 min b/t sets

          12/20 – 8 x 200 @ :29 (5-man relay style)
          12/21 – 3 x 150 accels / 2 x 600 @ +:13 (15 min) / 1 x 200 @ :30
          12/22 – 3 x 150 accels / 1 x 350 FAST (10min) / 3 x 200 @ :28 (200 walk)
          12/23 – 1 x 200 @ :29 / 3x 300 @ +:05.5 (5 min) / 1 x 200 @ :33
          12/24 – 3 x 150 accels / 2 x 500 @ +:10 (15 min) / 1 x 200 @ :30

          12/27 – 8 x 200 @ :29 (5-man relay style)
          12/28 – 1 x 200 @ :29 / 2 x 600 @ +:12 (15 min) / 1 x 2
          00 @ :29
          12/29 – 6 x 150 @ :20 (walk back) / Plyos I
          12/30 – 1 x 200 @ :29 / 3 x 300 @ +:06 (5 min) / 1 x 200 @ :30
          12/31 – 3 x 150 accels / 3 x 200 @ :30-:29-:28 (3 min)

          1/3 – 8 x 200 @ :28 (5-man relay style)
          1/04 – 1 x 200 @ :29 / 2 x 600 @ +:12 (15min) / 1 x 200 @ :29
          1/5 – 3 x 150 accels / 3 x 300 @ +:05.5 (5min) / 1 x 200 @ :30
          1/6 – 1 x 200 @ :28 / 3 x 200 @ +:04 – +:03 – +:02 (200 walk) / 1 x 200 @ :30
          1/7 – 1 x 200 @ :29 / 2 x 450 @ +:05 (15 min) / 1 x 200 @ :29

          1/10 – 8 x 200 @ :28 (5-man relay style)
          1/11 – 1 x 200 @ :29 / 2 x 500 @ +:10 (15 min) / 1 x 200 @ :30
          1/12 – 3 x 150 accels / 3 x 300 @ +:09 (5 min) / 3 x 80m Accels (3min)
          1/13 – 1 x 200 @ :28 / 3 x 200 @ +:04 – +:03 – +:02 (200 walk) / 1 x 200 @ :30
          1/14 – 3 x 150 accels / 3 x 200 @ :31-:30-:29 (3min)
          1/15 – NAU Open

          1/17 – 8 x 200 @ :28 (5-man relay style)
          1/18 – 1 x 200 @ :29 / 2 x 500 @ +:10 (15 min) / 1 x 200 @ :30
          1/19 – 1 x 200 @ :28 / 3 x 200 @ +:03 – +:02 – +:01 (200 walk) / 1 x 200 @ :29
          1/20 – 3 x 150 accels / 3 x 300 @ +:09 (5min) / 3 x 80m Accels (3min)
          1/21 – 3 x 200 @ :31-:30-:29
          1/22 – Meet

          1/24 – 8 x 200 @ :29 (5-man relay style)
          1/25 – 1 x 200 @ :29 / 2 x 450 @ +:05 (15 min) / 1 x 200 @ :29
          1/26 – 1 x 200 @ :30 / 6 x 150 @ :21 (walk back)
          1/27 – 3 x 150 accels / 1 x 350 @ +:05 – 15min – 1 x 300 @ +:04 – 10min – 1 x 250 @ +:03 – 10min – 1 x 200 @ +:02 – 10min – 1 x 200 @ +:07
          1/28 – 3 x 200 @ :30-:29-:28 (3min)
          1/29 – Meet

          1/31 – 8 x 200 @ :27.5 (5-man relay style)
          2/1 – 3 x 150 accels / 1 x 350 @ +:05 – 15min – 1 x 300 @ +:04 – 10min – 1 x 250 @ +:03 – 10min – 1 x 200 @ +:02 – 10min – 1 x 200 @ +:07
          2/2 – 1 x 200 @ :30 / 6 x 150 @ :21 (walk back)
          2/3 – 3 x 150 accels / 1 x 200 @ :29 – 3 min – 3 x 300 @ +:09 (5 min) / 1 x 200 @ :30
          2/4 – 3 x 200 @ :30-:29-:28 (3 min)
          2/5 – Mountain T???s Invitational (NAU)

          2/7 – 3 x 150 accels / 5 x 200 @ :26 (5-man relay style)
          2/8 – 3 x 150 accels / 3 x 300 @ +:06 (5min walk) / 1 x 200 @ :29
          2/9 – 8 x 200 @ :30 (200 walk)
          2/10 – 1 x 200 @ :27.5 / 3 x 150 accels / 1 x 200 @ :27 (200 walk) / 1 x 320 FAST (15min) / 3 x 200 @ :27 (5min)
          2/11 – 3 x 200 @ :31-:30-:29 (3min walk)

          2/14 – 6 x 200 @ :27 (5-man relay style)
          2/15 – 3 x 150 accels / 4 x 200 @ :26 (5-man relay style)
          2/16 – Seagrave
          2/17 – 1 x 200 @ :30 / 5 x 150 @ :21 (walk back)
          2/18 – 3 x 150 accels / 3 x 200 @ :30-:29-:28 (200m walk)
          2/19 – Shakeout / Travel Day
          2/20 – USATF Indoor Classic

        • Member
          alexkring on June 5, 2004 at 10:34 am #28716

          thank you very much 🙂

        • Member
          400stud on June 5, 2004 at 8:57 pm #28717

          No problem.

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