What’s the real purpose of it in training? Body weight work, light weight exercises, walking lunges, etc etc
Actual purpose of general strength training?
-
-
-
It isn’t NEEDED. I know lots of programs who don’t do it at all ever…
but it can aid recovery, act as a nice contrast from high intensity days and also help strengthen smaller muscles, joints, tendons etc etc all while doing so at a low intensity which can help avoid injury and help the bigger muscles become stronger.
-
It isn’t NEEDED. I know lots of programs who don’t do it at all ever…
but it can aid recovery, act as a nice contrast from high intensity days and also help strengthen smaller muscles, joints, tendons etc etc all while doing so at a low intensity which can help avoid injury and help the bigger muscles become stronger.
What are you talking about? General Strength Training is involved in every program I know of. Your basic everyday warmup and cooldowns are forms of GS Training. As for specifically setting aside time for GS Training for the sake of GS training is foolish. However, if you want to strength train, but the day is supposed to be a recovery day, a tempo day, or any other non-specific day towards an event then GS training fits. If you want to work on stamina, “work capacity”, power endurance, etc.. then GS training fits. Where it does not fit is as a replacement for specific work hence why it’s called General Strength.
-
Ok. I was talking about body weight circuits and exercises other than specific training…
So i wasn’t considering warm ups and cool downs. Sorry.
-
.
-
General strength training is important for posture I think. I do upper body work primarily for posture when I run/lift/other training. I also do general exercises for conditioning work, and general body composition. So I think it is useful, so long as it doesnt negate the more specific work.
-
[quote author="trackspeedboy" date="1268718851"]What’s the real purpose of it in training? Body weight work, light weight exercises, walking lunges, etc etc
From the amount of questions you ask here, you should know this sort of stuff by now.
I don’t even do anything for warm ups like that. I do some squats then strides to warm up and a jog up and down the runway once as a warm down, because i am incredibly lazy and there’s no coach to tell me what to do.[/quote]lol. Thanks for that post.
When are you jumping ?
-
Would you guys ever use general strength with speed if you don’t want to hit the gym? And lets say you do speed endurance, would it be complimentary to do something like 3x20m walking lunges?
-
Seriously? All these dumb questions, TSB?
Walking lunges are a form of resistance training. Going and doing them in the ‘gym’ with weights is just a means to increase the loading. You don’t need weights to perform resistance training, it is just one of the easiest and more efficient ways.
-
.
-
Seriously? All these dumb questions, TSB?
Walking lunges are a form of resistance training. Going and doing them in the ‘gym’ with weights is just a means to increase the loading. You don’t need weights to perform resistance training, it is just one of the easiest and more efficient ways.
I just got specific, asking how speed endurance would work with body strength strength endurance work.
-
[quote author="Nick Newman" date="1268766349"][quote author="joe" date="1268765705"][quote author="trackspeedboy" date="1268718851"]What’s the real purpose of it in training? Body weight work, light weight exercises, walking lunges, etc etc
From the amount of questions you ask here, you should know this sort of stuff by now.
I don’t even do anything for warm ups like that. I do some squats then strides to warm up and a jog up and down the runway once as a warm down, because i am incredibly lazy and there’s no coach to tell me what to do.[/quote]lol. Thanks for that post.
When are you jumping ?[/quote]
Hey Nick, im going to aim for 17th April. Might be a long shot with my torn pec but its on the mend, might do the 100 as well if the wind is the right way. 8m is very possible. Nah most likely 7.50-60 going from the previous week of training. You competing in England at all this summer?[/quote]
Haha shit ok! 8m you said it here…
Same weekend i’m opening up as well. And yeah i’ll be back in Endland. Trying to defeat the demons…
-
What’s the real purpose of it in training? Body weight work, light weight exercises, walking lunges, etc etc
General Strength work is used to recover from high intensity days. Neuromuscular workouts are very demanding on the CNS and when power athletes such as sprinters, jumpers, and throwers have a very demanding neuro workout they need time to allow their CNS to recover. General strength workouts are used as recovery from the heavy neuro days. General strength can be many things from core work to tempo runs to fartleks and everything inbetween as long as it doesn’t put a strain on the neuromuscular system. Lifting is not a form of GS.
-
[quote author="trackspeedboy" date="1268718851"]What’s the real purpose of it in training? Body weight work, light weight exercises, walking lunges, etc etc
General Strength work is used to recover from high intensity days. Neuromuscular workouts are very demanding on the CNS and when power athletes such as sprinters, jumpers, and throwers have a very demanding neuro workout they need time to allow their CNS to recover. General strength workouts are used as recovery from the heavy neuro days. General strength can be many things from core work to tempo runs to fartleks and everything inbetween as long as it doesn’t put a strain on the neuromuscular system. Lifting is not a form of GS.[/quote]
Lifting can be general strength. Say I pick out 7 or 8 exercises in the weight room and do all of them with 15 seconds rest or so for about 10-15 reps keeping the weight light, thats not general strength work? Also I never really considered tempo runs to be general strength work but more along the lines of something that compliments general strength since the intensities can be around the same.
-
General strength training can consist of body weight exercises, med ball routines and weight circuits. I have never considered tempo to be a general strength activity but I guess you could make a case for it. From what I know the purpose of general strength training is to lay a foundation in the early stages of training to allow your body to cope with increasing heavy loads later in a training year. This type of training also helps strengthen smaller muscle groups and ligaments in order to prevent future injury. During the competitive season general strength training should be used to keep an all around level of fitness in athletes and as a way of recovery after taxing workouts.
-
[quote author="Brian Pallini" date="1268804544"][quote author="trackspeedboy" date="1268718851"]What’s the real purpose of it in training? Body weight work, light weight exercises, walking lunges, etc etc
General Strength work is used to recover from high intensity days. Neuromuscular workouts are very demanding on the CNS and when power athletes such as sprinters, jumpers, and throwers have a very demanding neuro workout they need time to allow their CNS to recover. General strength workouts are used as recovery from the heavy neuro days. General strength can be many things from core work to tempo runs to fartleks and everything inbetween as long as it doesn’t put a strain on the neuromuscular system. Lifting is not a form of GS.[/quote]
Lifting can be general strength. Say I pick out 7 or 8 exercises in the weight room and do all of them with 15 seconds rest or so for about 10-15 reps keeping the weight light, thats not general strength work? Also I never really considered tempo runs to be general strength work but more along the lines of something that compliments general strength since the intensities can be around the same.[/quote]
You’re describing circuit training done in the weight room, not lifting. Yes circuit training is GS. Lifting, which includes olympic, core, and auxilary lifts, establishes neuromuscular pathways to help your body remember the activity you performed hence it is not GS and is neural work. Lifting is done with at least 60 sec rest between sets and could still be done with lighter weight at high reps.
-
Would you guys ever use general strength with speed if you don’t want to hit the gym? And lets say you do speed endurance, would it be complimentary to do something like 3x20m walking lunges?
Coaching is part science and part art so why not? Learning from the science will help in constructing a program that hopefully optimizes performance and minimizes risk of injury. To me, your question falls under the art part which means it isn’t a dumb question and you could do it. In fact, if you’re training younger kids, then the “general strength” could become “strength” period and you’d certainly do that after speed.
-
So…
Low intensity resistance training: GS
Low intensity medicine ball work: GS
Low intensity plyos (MJ circuits): GS
Low intensity running: Not GS?If by Low Intensity Running you mean tempo runs, then yes it is GS.
-
Duh! to me then…
I take back what i said. I don’t know a program that doesn’t include some GS stuff.
-
GS training is realy important, but I sometimes wonder where it has it’s place when we call such training as a “recovery” workouts during specific training periods for higher level power athletes in track and field. Let’s say athlete does two intensive workouts in a row, first could be sprints/weights and second one “special endurance”, so for many third session would be workout supposed to promote recovery wich we call GS training. In my opinion, in this case nor low intensity plyos, nor tempo, nor any resistance training would help to recover faster. Of course upper body work could be done. But my point is that in many cases better recovery is rest or doing another non-impact activity like some swimming to let heart pumping and blood flowing. Don’t you think that easy days on the track aren’t always helping to recover faster before another quality workout?
-
GS training is realy important, but I sometimes wonder where it has it’s place when we call such training as a “recovery” workouts during specific training periods for higher level power athletes in track and field. Let’s say athlete does two intensive workouts in a row, first could be sprints/weights and second one “special endurance”, so for many third session would be workout supposed to promote recovery wich we call GS training. In my opinion, in this case nor low intensity plyos, nor tempo, nor any resistance training would help to recover faster. Of course upper body work could be done. But my point is that in many cases better recovery is rest or doing another non-impact activity like some swimming to let heart pumping and blood flowing. Don’t you think that easy days on the track aren’t always helping to recover faster before another quality workout?
I think a main goal is cns recovery, and tempo running I believe (at slower speeds) is the training form of active recovery. Just keep it on the grass and the impact problem is minimized.
But also, how are you going to run reps of speed endurance/special endurance runs, if you don’t have adequate aerobic capacity? How will you be able to go through multiple rounds at a multi day meet if you aren’t properly conditioned?And if you’re coming off a week of very intense/high vol. training, best idea I’d think is to take 2-3 days of active recovery + rest. 1 day pool/massage, 1 day tempo/massage, 1 day rest.
-
I think a main goal is cns recovery, and tempo running I believe (at slower speeds) is the training form of active recovery. Just keep it on the grass and the impact problem is minimized.
I don’t think tempo helps to recover faster from CNS fatique. In my opinion, the main purpose of tempo would be maintain/improve fitness level. If for many tempo is an active recovery, so why in some cases not jogging (if really feeling sore or having heavy leg feeling)at almost walking speed for 15-25min and recovering even faster before next quality session?
But also, how are you going to run reps of speed endurance/special endurance runs, if you don’t have adequate aerobic capacity? How will you be able to go through multiple rounds at a multi day meet if you aren’t properly conditioned?
How much aerobic capacity power athlete needs to start speed endurance/special endurance runs? I agree that first 3-6 weeks would be geared more towards conditioning. How much aerobic capacity an athlete needs to go through multiple rounds at a multi day meet?
-
[quote]I think a main goal is cns recovery, and tempo running I believe (at slower speeds) is the training form of active recovery. Just keep it on the grass and the impact problem is minimized.
I don’t think tempo helps to recover faster from CNS fatique. In my opinion, the main purpose of tempo would be maintain/improve fitness level. If for many tempo is an active recovery, so why in some cases not jogging (if really feeling sore or having heavy leg feeling)at almost walking speed for 15-25min and recovering even faster before next quality session?
But also, how are you going to run reps of speed endurance/special endurance runs, if you don’t have adequate aerobic capacity? How will you be able to go through multiple rounds at a multi day meet if you aren’t properly conditioned?
How much aerobic capacity power athlete needs to start speed endurance/special endurance runs? I agree that first 3-6 weeks would be geared more towards conditioning. How much aerobic capacity an athlete needs to go through multiple rounds at a multi day meet?[/quote]
There are lots of programs that run 6-7x a week. Tempo running, for some people, can be very therapeutic. If the work is done on soft grass, then I don’t think there are necessarily any problems.
-
There are lots of programs that run 6-7x a week. Tempo running, for some people, can be very therapeutic. If the work is done on soft grass, then I don’t think there are necessarily any problems.
Please explain how tempo running even if it’s done on the soft grass can be very therapeutic? Is it b/c of less impact? Should speed not exceed 75% max? If it’s done on the grass barefoot then I see purpose of strenghtening foot muscles and reducing chances of injuries around it, but don’t see any links how it improves recovery after intense training sessions before the next quality session. I do tempo running as well but not for therapeutic reasons or better recovery, but for maintaining/improving my fitness, helping to control body fat level. If my aim would be to recover as quickly as possible so I would choose complete rest, some swimming or jogging at best. I know sprinters don’t like slow running or jogging and maybe there is no much place in sprinters program. But I guess from my experience that if you feel heavy or sore after couple of intense days in a row, plus you get some central fatique not just local muscular so sometimes better option is simply jogging, keeping heart rate low, some blood flowing into muscles and allowing to rest for faster muscle fibres. However, pool could be even better option b/c it’s non weight bearing activity. Many great 800m runners use jogging for regenerative purpose after intense training sessions, as some say almost at walking speed. However, many sprinters think that any slow running will slow them down even if it’s done for a short duration.
-
[quote]There are lots of programs that run 6-7x a week. Tempo running, for some people, can be very therapeutic. If the work is done on soft grass, then I don’t think there are necessarily any problems.
Please explain how tempo running even if it’s done on the soft grass can be very therapeutic? Is it b/c of less impact? Should speed not exceed 75% max? If it’s done on the grass barefoot then I see purpose of strenghtening foot muscles and reducing chances of injuries around it, but don’t see any links how it improves recovery after intense training sessions before the next quality session. I do tempo running as well but not for therapeutic reasons or better recovery, but for maintaining/improving my fitness, helping to control body fat level. If my aim would be to recover as quickly as possible so I would choose complete rest, some swimming or jogging at best. I know sprinters don’t like slow running or jogging and maybe there is no much place in sprinters program. But I guess from my experience that if you feel heavy or sore after couple of intense days in a row, plus you get some central fatique not just local muscular so sometimes better option is simply jogging, keeping heart rate low, some blood flowing into muscles and allowing to rest for faster muscle fibres. However, pool could be even better option b/c it’s non weight bearing activity. Many great 800m runners use jogging for regenerative purpose after intense training sessions, as some say almost at walking speed. However, many sprinters think that any slow running will slow them down even if it’s done for a short duration.[/quote]
Tempo runs are not at all taxing on the neural system and don’t have anything to do with increasing power, speed, or acceleration. They do however help increase/maintain fitness therefore it is a GS activity, when speaking of recovery, I’m not speaking of recovery from overall fatigue, just helping the neural system recover and since tempo runs aren’t neural they will help the neural system recover while still allowing the athlete to workout.
-
[quote]There are lots of programs that run 6-7x a week. Tempo running, for some people, can be very therapeutic. If the work is done on soft grass, then I don’t think there are necessarily any problems.
Please explain how tempo running even if it’s done on the soft grass can be very therapeutic? Is it b/c of less impact? Should speed not exceed 75% max? If it’s done on the grass barefoot then I see purpose of strenghtening foot muscles and reducing chances of injuries around it, but don’t see any links how it improves recovery after intense training sessions before the next quality session. I do tempo running as well but not for therapeutic reasons or better recovery, but for maintaining/improving my fitness, helping to control body fat level. If my aim would be to recover as quickly as possible so I would choose complete rest, some swimming or jogging at best. I know sprinters don’t like slow running or jogging and maybe there is no much place in sprinters program. But I guess from my experience that if you feel heavy or sore after couple of intense days in a row, plus you get some central fatique not just local muscular so sometimes better option is simply jogging, keeping heart rate low, some blood flowing into muscles and allowing to rest for faster muscle fibres. However, pool could be even better option b/c it’s non weight bearing activity. Many great 800m runners use jogging for regenerative purpose after intense training sessions, as some say almost at walking speed. However, many sprinters think that any slow running will slow them down even if it’s done for a short duration.[/quote]
Sorry, but with just blatant disregard for the obvious and strawman points, I really have nothing to say. Tempo running is essentially glorified jogging–it is not as-if the videos of Ben Johnson running 20 second 100m tempo runs indicate that it is really anything but that. It can improve circulation directly to tissues that are used in sprinting. You even mention that ‘many great 800m runners use jogging for regenerative purpose [sic]’, most who whom call it tempo running (continuous versus extensive. Empirically, it is used by nearly all great programs–far more often than programs that use alternative means. Among the very best sprinters at the moment, it is used almost to the exclusion of other elements, even traditional speed work. -
Sorry, but with just blatant disregard for the obvious and strawman points, I really have nothing to say. Tempo running is essentially glorified jogging–it is not as-if the videos of Ben Johnson running 20 second 100m tempo runs indicate that it is really anything but that. It can improve circulation directly to tissues that are used in sprinting. You even mention that ‘many great 800m runners use jogging for regenerative purpose [sic]’, most who whom call it tempo running (continuous versus extensive. Empirically, it is used by nearly all great programs–far more often than programs that use alternative means. Among the very best sprinters at the moment, it is used almost to the exclusion of other elements, even traditional speed work.
I’m not against tempo runs, but it doesn’t always help to recover if these are done too hard and intensity/volume is too high. For Ben running 20sec 100’s with low volume would count as an active recovery, but for HS athlete who does tempo at speed even if it’s 75% max doesn’t always help to recover and it usually counts as another workout but not active rest. However, you didn’t answer why tempo can be very therapeutic. If all programs and very best sprinters use tempo it doesn’t explain that it’s very therapeutic. Is tempo always glorified jogging? I see many use 75% of max speed as a tempo speed, so is it really jogging? For a 22sec 200m sprinter that tempo would be just under 30sec, so it’s much faster than Ben’s 40sec speed.
-
Tempo runs are not at all taxing on the neural system and don’t have anything to do with increasing power, speed, or acceleration. They do however help increase/maintain fitness therefore it is a GS activity, when speaking of recovery, I’m not speaking of recovery from overall fatigue, just helping the neural system recover and since tempo runs aren’t neural they will help the neural system recover while still allowing the athlete to workout.
Thanks Brian. I totally agree that they are not taxing on the neural system if not done too fast and with too high volumes. But still don’t think that it helps to recover or has therapeutic value. Maintain/increase fitness for sure.
-
[quote]Tempo runs are not at all taxing on the neural system and don’t have anything to do with increasing power, speed, or acceleration. They do however help increase/maintain fitness therefore it is a GS activity, when speaking of recovery, I’m not speaking of recovery from overall fatigue, just helping the neural system recover and since tempo runs aren’t neural they will help the neural system recover while still allowing the athlete to workout.
Thanks Brian. I totally agree that they are not taxing on the neural system if not done too fast and with too high volumes. But still don’t think that it helps to recover or has therapeutic value. Maintain/increase fitness for sure.[/quote]
GS and Tempo are definite aids in recovery. Anytime you are moving blood into the system you are aiding the healing/recovery process. Think contrast baths. We typically will end our GS days with some contrast baths in the training room.
GS has theraputic value because you are working the smaller muscle groups and getting in valuable work that will prevent injury. I would argue that keep the body in balance aids the athlete in their ability to perform. Therapy is about returning to the body to homeostasis, the I would classify GS circuits as therapeutic.
Pool workouts are actually the best modalities for recovery and GS due to the water, one can compare it to a low intensity massage. CFKA can speak more to this, if he has gotten any sleep lately.
-
GS and Tempo are definite aids in recovery. Anytime you are moving blood into the system you are aiding the healing/recovery process. Think contrast baths. We typically will end our GS days with some contrast baths in the training room.
GS has theraputic value because you are working the smaller muscle groups and getting in valuable work that will prevent injury. I would argue that keep the body in balance aids the athlete in their ability to perform. Therapy is about returning to the body to homeostasis, the I would classify GS circuits as therapeutic.
Pool workouts are actually the best modalities for recovery and GS due to the water, one can compare it to a low intensity massage. CFKA can speak more to this, if he has gotten any sleep lately.
Great answer. As you said GS circuits can be classified as therapeutic, still can’t see tempo as a great therapeutic value, except that it moves blood into the system. However, moving blood into the system could be done not just by tempo but in the pool as well for example. Tempo doesn’t move any extra smaller muscle groups wich aren’t moved at faster speeds. Plus if an athlete expects from tempo to speed recovery, he should feel even better after workout than before it. If not than it won’t speed recovery, could be even worse delaying recovery process before another quality session.
-
I like to think of things along the lines of a race car.
Core Lifts, Olympic Lifts, or Static Lifts = working on building bigger engine
General Strength = working on alignment
-
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.