I have a question for all you people out there. I have recently read some of Loreon Seagrave and Kevin O’Donnell Speed Dynamics information and they were working on acceleration phase in from the blocks to H1. The goal was to increase the attack velocity at take-off. In doing so they looked at several things. The one thing in which I not sure about was (Add strides (2) to the acceleration pattern). What is the opinion on this idea? How you safely determine the distance for 2 strides? Has anyone use this in their training. Thanks
Add strides (2) to the acceleration pattern?
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KeymasterAre you suggesting changing the approach to the first hurdle so that the athlete takes 10 steps? I would highly recommend against that. The rhythm change from start-to-hurdle 1 to hurdle 1-to-hurdle 2 would be SOO drastic that it would screw up even the most talented athletes. Basically, you’d be going ultra-high turnover and then instantly (after hurdle clearance) adjust to a regular or only slightly altered stride pattern. The other problem is that the high turnover would come at a time in the even when you’re trying to develop momentum and accelerate efficiently and short contact times and high turnover are not the most efficient means of doing that. I could possibly see adding 2 steps on the length of the run-in so that you’re coming in to the first hurdle hotter.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Keymaster
10 to 4 is much more acceptable than 10 to 3. 9 or 10 stepping is probably the “correct” approach for a 4 step hurdler. For a 3 step hurdler the transition would be MUCH too great.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
The point here is not adding two steps within the regular hurdle spacing, but using it as a tool in practice to get greater acceleration to the first hurdle. Yes I have used it and I like it. I would add about 12-12.5 ft for men and 11-11.5 ft for women to the starting distance.
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Participant
While I understand the reasoning and I think when I would apply it (uses), there are at least two things to be aware of:
(a) patterning, mentally it can be tough to change, adjust, change “back” (which, if the athlete continues, will happen) and that change “back” will probably happen right about the time 4 strides becomes too “slow” i.e. at the time changing to 3 stride will be necessary (unless the athlete’s stature simple does not allow for 3 strides)
(b) patterning in a slightly different way; if you stay with the added velocity the extra two strides should bring too long it could create more “problems” to solve down the road, this is a judgment call however; one method HS age athletes use if the extra velocity they now carry gets them to 1H faster than they “want” (going back to using 8 strides after training with 10), is to slow down trying to make that first clearance perfect, so in a way a bit self defeating; I have worked with an athlete who due to circumstance stayed with a non-3 stride pattern too long and it was difficult to get proper mechanics back where they need to be.
Some hurdle coaches far smarter and more experienced than I will only put what amounts to overspeed work in certain places within the series of 10 flights and some will put it anywhere within; not that it should not be done but, personally, I have not read of, heard of, seen many suggesting overspeed to 1H, or found need myself. I would think application is very much a case by case basis. -
Participant
Adding two strides is not something I would do with beginners, or poor hurdlers!
I do it with experienced hurdlers who can handle having more speed than usual, who need some extra challenges… So the two girls I have used this with this year both ran under 15 sec in the 100m hurdles. For the same reason (to experience and learn to handle more speed), I take hurdles away – so they run for instance hurdles 1-2-3-5-6-7 or even 1-2-3-6-7-8 (or some other variations)… -
Keymaster
The point here is not adding two steps within the regular hurdle spacing, but using it as a tool in practice to get greater acceleration to the first hurdle. Yes I have used it and I like it. I would add about 12-12.5 ft for men and 11-11.5 ft for women to the starting distance.
I’ve never done this but I could see it being effective. How do you space the subsequent hurdles?
I’ve spaced the hurdles so the athlete has to 5 step in a fast rhythm which forces their attack velocity between hurdles but I’ve never done it to the first hurdle. Any problems with rhythm when moving back to the normal first hurdle distance?
ELITETRACK Founder
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Member
why not just work the athlete to turn over quicker? how is adding 2 strides going to improve their attack velocity to the first hurdle? if they arent attacking properly in 8 steps what will 2 more steps do. they will just attack on the 10th step the way they did on the 8th.
this scenario could only be occuring at the High School or Youth levels obviously.
they dont have poor attack velocity at take-off because they dont have enough steps, they have poor attack velocity because they are afraid of the hurdle.
if you have an athlete who is “jumping” the first hurdle then they are gonna jump regardless.
here is what i would do.
lower the hurdle, even have them run over banana hurdles to the first hurdle. make sure they “run” over the banana hurdle. once they have mastered running over the 12 inch hurdle move the height up.
im no expert but im sure this would help a kid more than getting him/her to that scary first hurdle in 10 steps rather than 8.
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