i was going to start barry ross deadlift program you know the one that allyson felix used and wanted to know do you think this is a good program since it only uses the deadlift?
BARRY ROSS PROGRAM
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KeymasterI think there are better options. I think the interpretation of the concepts which he bases his program on are faulty. I think the program will work but as I said there are certainly better options out there.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
i was going to start barry ross deadlift program you know the one that allyson felix used and wanted to know do you think this is a good program since it only uses the deadlift?
It's good in that it is dead simple. I had one of our girls do it last year and she PR'd massively. She was a near complete newbie though. I think it's good for people who come out for track 2 weeks before the first meet and have never lifted weights before. I should also note that Cerebro did it and negative PRd.
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mortac what did cerebro time go back to?
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lol I negative PR'd by at least .3. I mean, I ran 11.18 -1.5 in rainy conditions a few months early. While doing some almost identical to Barry's program (he argues that my occasional 3 point starts make it a completely different program), I ran like 11.7x or 11.8x, I forget, in another windy conditions and very very hot. Now, I will concede that part was because of the wind (no more than .1) and part was because of ridiculous heat and delayed race start (~1 hour), but I don't see how one could run that much slower, esp. if I supposedly got faster. I also had a tight back pretty routinely. My deadlift went up a shit load… that's a good point I guess (over 50lbs in <2 months and my max was already over 400lbs).
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lol I negative PR'd by at least .3. I mean, I ran 11.18 -1.5 in rainy conditions a few months early. While doing some almost identical to Barry's program (he argues that my occasional 3 point starts make it a completely different program), I ran like 11.7x or 11.8x, I forget, in another windy conditions and very very hot. Now, I will concede that part was because of the wind (no more than .1) and part was because of ridiculous heat and delayed race start (~1 hour), but I don't see how one could run that much slower, esp. if I supposedly got faster. I also had a tight back pretty routinely. My deadlift went up a shizzle load… that's a good point I guess (over 50lbs in <2 months and my max was already over 400lbs).
Yea but I still don't understand your 11.18 -1.5 in the rain….what the hell did you run in the races shortly before and after 11.18?
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I had one of our girls do it last year and she PR'd massively. She was a near complete newbie though. I think it's good for people who come out for track 2 weeks before the first meet and have never lifted weights before. I should also note that Cerebro did it and negative PRd.
It's clear that Ross's program would have limited value to athletes who are already well trained, as with Cerebro's example. I think even in his book (which I lost through a hard drive crash) he notes that when he put Felix through the program it was the first time she'd lifted.
That said, is mortac8 on to something?
Assuming exactly the scenario he cites above, which many of us face as HS athletes come to us straight from basketball or soccer or are untrained when they come out, is there a better way to get quick results with a sprinter/jumpers first course of training than the Ross deadlift program?
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this may be a lil off topic, i know ross didn't invented during plyos between lifts but once i added the depth drop push up between my max effort bp sets my bp sky rocketed. also with ross book he dont give much details on how to setup and progress your vol (sets/reps) which i think is key in the overall program.
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this may be a lil off topic, i know ross didn't invented during plyos between lifts but once i added the depth drop push up between my max effort bp sets my bp sky rocketed. also with ross book he dont give much details on how to setup and progress your vol (sets/reps) which i think is key in the overall program.
I think Ross does address how progress occurs, which again is why it seems his program is good for beginners.
I'm pretty sure he recommends 4-6 sets of 2-3 (sometimes 4) reps, with the weight increasing in most sessions. He seems to argue against periodization, saying that one just needs to back off for a session or two if he/she feels the need. And while complexing lifts with plyos is effective, I sure hope Ross doesn't think he invented it.
Without saying it, it seems that Ross is following a simple linear progression, which is what Rippetoe and Kilgore advocate for beginners in their new book on periodization.
Again, this seems like something that works for beginners – is there something better in the short term?
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[quote author="utfootball4" date="1166914503"]
this may be a lil off topic, i know ross didn't invented during plyos between lifts but once i added the depth drop push up between my max effort bp sets my bp sky rocketed. also with ross book he dont give much details on how to setup and progress your vol (sets/reps) which i think is key in the overall program.I think Ross does address how progress occurs, which again is why it seems his program is good for beginners.
I'm pretty sure he recommends 4-6 sets of 2-3 (sometimes 4) reps, with the weight increasing in most sessions. He seems to argue against periodization, saying that one just needs to back off for a session or two if he/she feels the need. And while complexing lifts with plyos is effective, I sure hope Ross doesn't think he invented it.
Without saying it, it seems that Ross is following a simple linear progression, which is what Rippetoe and Kilgore advocate for beginners in their new book on periodization.
Again, this seems like something that works for beginners – is there something better in the short term?
[/quote]yeh i think ross follow a linear progression setup but you could also say people like cf does to with his 3-1-3 max strength setup where he start with 80>85>90>80>90>95>100+
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[quote author="cerebro" date="1166911317"]
lol I negative PR'd by at least .3. I mean, I ran 11.18 -1.5 in rainy conditions a few months early. While doing some almost identical to Barry's program (he argues that my occasional 3 point starts make it a completely different program), I ran like 11.7x or 11.8x, I forget, in another windy conditions and very very hot. Now, I will concede that part was because of the wind (no more than .1) and part was because of ridiculous heat and delayed race start (~1 hour), but I don't see how one could run that much slower, esp. if I supposedly got faster. I also had a tight back pretty routinely. My deadlift went up a shizzle load… that's a good point I guess (over 50lbs in <2 months and my max was already over 400lbs).Yea but I still don't understand your 11.18 -1.5 in the rain….what the hell did you run in the races shortly before and after 11.18?
[/quote]Multiple races in the 11.2x and 11.3x range in worse conditions and many handtimes in the 10.9h-11.1h range. As an example, 2 weeks before my 11.18, I had a week that was:
Mon- Low vol sprinting/starts (<300m) (there was a meet on Friday before)
Tues- Treadmill walk/Premeet
Wed- Meet: 1/2/4×1/4×4 Dual meet PR's at the time in all 4 events (11.0h on very slow track, 22.7h, 43.x in the 4×1, 52.x in the relay)
Thurs- treadmill walk (15mins) and stretching
Fri- 3 rounds of the 100m and a 4x100m. Round 1- 10.8h slowing down last 10m (I won my heat & 2nd place ran 10.93 at states), Round 2- 10.6h, other 2 guys that got the same time ran 10.8x at states, Round 3- 11.3x fat–horrible conditions–winning time was 11.1x and the same guy ran 10.9x fat at the same place 2 weeks later. The next day (sat), I had a very sore and strained hamstring.At states (the week after 11.18) I ran 11.2x fat (forget the exact hundreth) w/ decent tailwind, but very rainy (if you remember) conditions. I don't know what to attribute it to. My training times the week of the 11.18 were awful and I expected to get embarassed and the training times the week before state were almost PR level. I have always been a big meet runner though and there were kids that beat me or I just barely beat in dual meets that I beat by >.3 fat at conference. You have to look at in the context that I ran 1/2/4×1/4×4 every single meet except maybe 1, regardless of conditions, because my team's goal was a conference champ.
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[quote author="mortac8" date="1166910450"]I had one of our girls do it last year and she PR'd massively. She was a near complete newbie though. I think it's good for people who come out for track 2 weeks before the first meet and have never lifted weights before. I should also note that Cerebro did it and negative PRd.
It's clear that Ross's program would have limited value to athletes who are already well trained, as with Cerebro's example. I think even in his book (which I lost through a hard drive crash) he notes that when he put Felix through the program it was the first time she'd lifted.
That said, is mortac8 on to something?
Assuming exactly the scenario he cites above, which many of us face as HS athletes come to us straight from basketball or soccer or are untrained when they come out, is there a better way to get quick results with a sprinter/jumpers first course of training than the Ross deadlift program?
[/quote]Ross is a little shady when he mentions him "training" Felix and his most recent girl. Both ran 23.x in the 200m as FRESHMAN before doing his training. Both had multiple hamstring injuries (big coincidence), but Barry claims all 3 times in Allison's case it was because she was at fault for not drinking enough water and he never addressed the other girl. The running done by Felix was also not what Barry prescribes, although he likes to say that the coach who did control her running "wishes she did ross's stuff." Finally, Allison's big PR came at altitude. Still amazing, but look at all the times leading up to it.
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If you look on his website, you'll notice in the hall of fame a few deadlift 500 lbs or close, to me, that is advanced strength. Deadlifting 3x your bodyweight is also advanced. I've discussed the program with a few other people, and though barry recommends against it, wonder how the protocol will work for other lifts like squats and such. I'm still nursing a pulled hamstring, and hope to try something like that after christmas.
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If you look on his website, you'll notice in the hall of fame a few deadlift 500 lbs or close, to me, that is advanced strength. Deadlifting 3x your bodyweight is also advanced. I've discussed the program with a few other people, and though barry recommends against it, wonder how the protocol will work for other lifts like squats and such. I'm still nursing a pulled hamstring, and hope to try something like that after christmas.
i dont think you can call someone advance just bc they dl 500lb, shit there squat could be 340.
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Can't deny that fact eh…
Well, at the very least, what do you guys think about the strength portion of this program? Cerebro, you added about 50 lbs to yor deadlift right? I added about the same to my deadlift in about 3 weeks. Note, I really lack in the strength department, having squatted 350 lbs below parallel at most. I have power cleaned about 275 lbs. I NEED STRENGTH. So what applies for other does not apply for me.
I've spoken with a few people who used this protocol for their squat, and the said it worked better for their vertical jump than a deadlift. One person at charliefrancis.com claimed it added 200 lbs to his squat in a year. I think Barry Ross's routine may have some questionmarks (as does every program), but also a lot good points. -
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Can't deny that fact eh…
Well, at the very least, what do you guys think about the strength portion of this program? Cerebro, you added about 50 lbs to yor deadlift right? I added about the same to my deadlift in about 3 weeks. Note, I really lack in the strength department, having squatted 350 lbs below parallel at most. I have power cleaned about 275 lbs. I NEED STRENGTH. So what applies for other does not apply for me.
I've spoken with a few people who used this protocol for their squat, and the said it worked better for their vertical jump than a deadlift. One person at charliefrancis.com claimed it added 200 lbs to his squat in a year. I think Barry Ross's routine may have some questionmarks (as does every program), but also a lot good points.nice pc for a 350lb squat. of course you will get huge gains at first but they usually level off as you get into the program longer.
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Participant
Can't deny that fact eh…
Well, at the very least, what do you guys think about the strength portion of this program? Cerebro, you added about 50 lbs to yor deadlift right? I added about the same to my deadlift in about 3 weeks. Note, I really lack in the strength department, having squatted 350 lbs below parallel at most. I have power cleaned about 275 lbs. I NEED STRENGTH. So what applies for other does not apply for me.
I've spoken with a few people who used this protocol for their squat, and the said it worked better for their vertical jump than a deadlift. One person at charliefrancis.com claimed it added 200 lbs to his squat in a year. I think Barry Ross's routine may have some questionmarks (as does every program), but also a lot good points.I hadn't been doing deadlift regularly or very heavy either though, so who knows. The last time I had tried to boost deadlift I did a very similar program (before I ever knew who Barry Ross was) and added about 100lbs, but I was an extreme beginner then. I think the program is decent for boosting your deadlift, if you are just starting out, or if you have very very little time to train. I think his program neglects some very important things though, like low intensity work and a more general strength approach.
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