Beta Alanine

    Posted In: Nutrition & Supplements

        • Member
          Carson Boddicker on November 17, 2006 at 9:28 am #12398

          As per request on the other forum; let's discuss beta alanine. 

          The question first was something along the lines of Beta being useful in only high rep situations. 

          It certainly does help in high rep training, but not solely.  Beta alanine works well in sports/athletics where there are high or consistantly high production of lactic acid.  At this time, I believe, it is somewhat unclear as to exactly what mechanism the aid comes, but more research has been coming very rapidly. 

          Important to a strenght/power athlete, in a study done on football players supplementing with BA and Creatine, they lost body fat, 1RM Bench and Squat went up.  It has the ability to increase work capacity at certain levels, which is where your going to get improvement. 

        • Participant
          QUIKAZHELL on March 31, 2007 at 10:02 am #59274

          LeT's keep this topic going.

          Who has actually used this?

          Also what does the reasearch show.

          To my understand this supplement has something to do with the buffering of H+ ions.
          Is this what we want during training without actually having to train for it?

          Suppose you were to do 4×250 with 5' rest at 85%. Let's say your goal time was 32.0. You run #1 in 32.2 you feel fine, you run #2 in 32.2 feel ok after but a little tired, #3 in 32.8 now you are starting to feel lactic acid and on a 1-10 scale you are a 5/10. #4 you run a 33.6 and are now bathed in lactic acid 7/10.

          How would this supplement help this type of training?
          Would the "burn" be less at that speed which would allow you to run faster therfore get some type of adaptation or would it allow you to do an extra rep. at that pace? Is there anyway that this would negate the idea of using the supplement? Just throwing ideas around here.

          Also Biotest says Beta Alanine must me time released. Is that a marketing scheme for you to buy their product or is it legit and are the other companies product a waste of money?

        • Participant
          QUIKAZHELL on April 2, 2007 at 7:22 am #59275

          Noone used this?

        • Participant
          star61 on April 2, 2007 at 8:36 am #59276

          As per request on the other forum; let's discuss beta alanine.

          I'm looking for the full text version of this study. Thought I'd throw it out there until then…

          Effects of Beta-Alanine on Exercise Performance in Men and Women Jeffery Stout, PhD, CSCS*D
          Studies have indicated that increasing muscle carnosine through beta-alanine supplementation may delay fatigue and improve exercise performance. Very recent investigations have demonstrated that beta-alanine supplementation increased physical working capacity, training volume, anaerobic threshold and time to exhaustion in men and women. The presentation will review potential performance benefits of beta-alanine supplementation.

          Here's another…

          Effect of creatine and beta-alanine supplementation on performance and endocrine responses in strength/power athletes.
          Hoffman J, Ratamess N, Kang J, Mangine G, Faigenbaum A, Stout J.
          Dept. of Health and Exercise Science, The College of New Jersey, Ewing, NJ 08628, USA. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2006 Aug;16(4):430-46.

          The effects of creatine and creatine plus beta-alanine on strength, power, body composition, and endocrine changes were examined during a 10-wk resistance training program in collegiate football players. Thirty-three male subjects were randomly assigned to either a placebo (P), creatine (C), or creatine plus beta-alanine (CA) group. During each testing session subjects were assessed for strength (maximum bench press and squat), power (Wingate anaerobic power test, 20-jump test), and body composition. Resting blood samples were analyzed for total testosterone, cortisol, growth hormone, IGF-1, and sex hormone binding globulin. Changes in lean body mass and percent body fat were greater (P < 0.05) in CA compared to C or P. Significantly greater strength improvements were seen in CA and C compared to P. Resting testosterone concentrations were elevated in C, however, no other significant endocrine changes were noted. Results of this study demonstrate the efficacy of creatine and creatine plus beta-alanine on strength performance. Creatine plus beta-alanine supplementation appeared to have the greatest effect on lean tissue accruement and body fat composition

        • Participant
          QUIKAZHELL on April 2, 2007 at 8:45 am #59277

          Star Thanks for your post.
          Yes, These are the results I have read.
          What I am questioning is since this supplement buffers H+ ions through some type of mechanism dealing with increased levels of carnosine what happens when you stop taking the supplement? Will your times go to crap?
          Also would this supplement allow you do do an extra rep. in a lactate workout which will lead to more gains or would this just negate the whole point in taking the supplement. If you want to take you body to the point that you feel that lactic acid and then do one extra rep. which will force the adaptation. But when you take this supplement say you get the lactic acid in one rep. later. What is the difference in adaptation?
          Sorry i am find it hard to word what I would like to say.

        • Participant
          star61 on April 2, 2007 at 10:08 am #59278

          Star Thanks for your post.
          Yes, These are the results I have read.
          What I am questioning is since this supplement buffers H+ ions through some type of mechanism dealing with increased levels of carnosine what happens when you stop taking the supplement? Will your times go to crap?
          Also would this supplement allow you do do an extra rep. in a lactate workout which will lead to more gains or would this just negate the whole point in taking the supplement. If you want to take you body to the point that you feel that lactic acid and then do one extra rep. which will force the adaptation. But when you take this supplement say you get the lactic acid in one rep. later. What is the difference in adaptation?
          Sorry i am find it hard to word what I would like to say.

          I think with any supplement that 'artificially' improves your strength, or endurance, while taking it, you have to be careful when getting off of it. I do believe that any substance that allows you to train harder, faster or heavier will have long-lasting positive effects, even after you stop taking it, if you are careful. Like with creatine, you will lose a little strength etc. when you stop, but not everything you've gained.

          One thing I do when I cycle off of creatine or any other supplement, is actually try to work out more intensely when I taper off. My volume might have to come down, but I try to keep intensity high. I also try not to taper/drop all supplements at the same time. I might substitute another supplement, like ZMA, just for the placebo effect if nothing else. It seems to help, even if it is just psychology.

        • Member
          winnesota on April 11, 2007 at 12:43 am #59279

          I read that Beta-Alanine + Histidine increased carnosine by 13% and that Beta-Alanine + Creatine increases power output.

        • Member
          Carson Boddicker on April 13, 2007 at 7:29 am #59280

          I apologize for being relatively late to comment, I've been extremely wrapped up as of late.  The two big studies on Beta Alanine are those cited by Star.  Stout, to my knowledge, is currently doing another battery of studies regarding BA. I also believe that Stout's PowerPoint is available for viewing on T-Nation. 

            Anecdotally, I've had success with BA supplementation and I feel it has been extremely helpful in boosting the speed of my  anaerobic threshold as well as letting me run very strong reps on shorter recovery. 

        • Participant
          QUIKAZHELL on April 13, 2007 at 8:43 am #59281

          What about when you discontinue its use?

        • Participant
          star61 on April 20, 2007 at 4:48 am #59282

          …Anecdotally, I've had success with BA supplementation and I feel it has been extremely helpful in boosting the speed of my  anaerobic threshold as well as letting me run very strong reps on shorter recovery. 

          What dosage and how often? Does it have short-term effects like caffeine, or is it something that builds up after several days/weeks of use like creatine?

        • Participant
          klp2332 on April 21, 2007 at 9:02 am #59283

          https://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1196017

          this may help

        • Member
          winnesota on September 29, 2007 at 9:31 am #59284

          I thought I would add to this again.  I recently started writing a research paper on beta-alanine and so far here what ive come across:

          One study states that during 30 second maximal cycling trials, They observed ???significant correlations between the carnosine concentration and the mean power per body mass, especially in the final 2 phases.???
          Also, "A significant correlation was demonstrated between the carnosine concentration and the type IIX fiber composition (r=0.646, p<0.05)"

          so it looks good for speed/power athletes…

          Another study done on 400m runners(4.8g per day) shows that carnosine levels were increased during exercise and time to fatigue was greater.

          and as quik stated before carnosine does help buffer H+ ions. I'm still looking for a hard study on this…

        • Participant
          QUIKAZHELL on September 29, 2007 at 4:08 pm #59285

          sorry i have not posted mine and my camps experience post season BUT this shit is legit. Training felt better, races felt stronger and everyone ran pr's except for myself but I still ran 5 of my best top 8 times of my career over 200 meters. This supp. is a must for everyone. Off-season creatine, GPP nothing, and Beta Alanine SPP alll the way through both the indoor and outdoor season. Thank you to everyone who has provided advice/feedback.

        • Member
          winnesota on September 29, 2007 at 10:15 pm #59286

          quik how many grams do you take a day? Im guessing you take it before you workout?

        • Participant
          mortac8 on September 30, 2007 at 1:19 am #59287

          agree.  it's good stuff.  i take 2g 3x/day

        • Member
          winnesota on September 30, 2007 at 2:56 am #59288

          agree.  it's good stuff.  i take 2g 3x/day

          what brand?  GNC is expensive

        • Participant
          mortac8 on September 30, 2007 at 5:14 am #59289

          what brand?  GNC is expensive

          ha no shit GNC is expensive.  it is one of my goals in life to never shop there.  hell anything there is 2x+ the price of a good website.  contact carl valle.  his company used to sell 1000 500g caps for ~$60.

        • Participant
          senri on October 5, 2007 at 9:21 am #59290

          quik which beta alanine did you buy. The bulk one 1400fast or whatever its called?

        • Member
          richard-703 on October 6, 2007 at 12:17 am #59291

          Influence of  – alanine  supplementation  on skeletal muscle carnosine concentrations and high intensity cycling capacity.      Hill, C. A.; Harris, R. C.; Kim, H. J.; Harris, B. D.; Sale, C.; Boobis, L. H.; Kim, C. K.; Wise, J. A.    School of Sports, Exercise & Health Sciences,  University of Chichester,  Chichester,  UK.    Amino Acids  (2007),  32(2),  225-233.  Publisher: Springer Wien,  CODEN: AACIE6  ISSN: 0939-4451.  Journal  written in English.    CAN 146:337075    AN 2007:118274    CAPLUS 

          Abstract

          Muscle carnosine synthesis is limited by the availability of -alanine.  Thirteen male subjects were supplemented with -alanine (CarnoSyn) for 4 wks, 8 of these for 10 wks.  A biopsy of the vastus lateralis was obtained from 6 of the 8 at 0, 4 and 10 wks.  Subjects undertook a cycle capacity test to det. total work done (TWD) at 110% (CCT110%) of their max. power (Wmax).  Twelve matched subjects received a placebo.  Eleven of these completed the CCT110% at 0 and 4 wks, and 8, 10 wks.  Muscle biopsies were obtained from 5 of the 8 and one addnl. subject.  Muscle carnosine was significantly increased by +58.8% and +80.1% after 4 and 10 wks -alanine supplementation.  Carnosine, initially 1.71 times higher in type IIa fibers, increased equally in both type I and IIa fibers.  No increase was seen in control subjects.  Taurine was unchanged by 10 wks of supplementation. 4 wks -alanine supplementation resulted in a significant increase in TWD (+13.0%); with a further +3.2% increase at 10 wks.  TWD was unchanged at 4 and 10 wks in the control subjects.  The increase in TWD with supplementation followed the increase in muscle carnosine. 

          Effects of 28 days of  beta – alanine  and creatine monohydrate  supplementation  on aerobic power, ventilatory and lactate thresholds, and time to exhaustion.      Zoeller, R. F.; Stout, J. R.; O'Kroy, J. A.; Torok, D. J.; Mielke, M.    Department of Exercise Science and Health Promotion,  Florida Atlantic University,  Davie,  FL,    Amino Acids  (2007),  33(3),  505-510.  Publisher: Springer Wien,  CODEN: AACIE6  ISSN: 0939-4451.  Journal  written in English.    AN 2007:982290    CAPLUS 

          Abstract

          The effect of beta-alanine (-Ala) alone or in combination with creatine monohydrate (Cr) on aerobic exercise performance is unknown.  The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of 4 wk of -Ala and Cr supplementation on indexes of endurance performance.  Fifty-five men (24.5  5.3 yrs) participated in a double-blind, placebo-controlled study and randomly assigned to one of 4 groups; placebo (PL, n = 13), creatine (Cr, n = 12), beta-alanine (-Ala, n = 14), or beta-alanine plus creatine (CrBA, n = 16).  Prior to and following supplementation, participants performed a graded exercise test on a cycle ergometer to det. VO2peak, time to exhaustion (TTE), and power output, VO2, and percent VO2peak assocd. with VT and LT.  No significant group effects were found.  However, within groups, a significant time effect was obsd. for CrBa on 5 of the 8 parameters measured.  These data suggest that CrBA may potentially enhance endurance performance.

          Effects of  – alanine  supplementation  on the onset of neuromuscular fatigue and ventilatory threshold in women.      Stout, J. R.; Cramer, J. T.; Zoeller, R. F.; Torok, D.; Costa, P.; Hoffman, J. R.; Harris, R. C.; O'Kroy, J.    Department of Health and Exercise Science,  University of Oklahoma,  Norman,  OK,  USA.    Amino Acids  (2007),  32(3),  381-386.  Publisher: Springer Wien,  CODEN: AACIE6  ISSN: 0939-4451.  Journal  written in English.    CAN 147:71876    AN 2007:392499    CAPLUS 

          Abstract

          This study examd. the effects of 28 days of -alanine supplementation on the phys. working capacity at fatigue threshold (PWCFT), ventilatory threshold (VT), maximal oxygen consumption (O2-MAX), and time-to-exhaustion (TTE) in women.  Twenty-two women (age  SD 27.4  6.1 yrs) participated and were randomly assigned to either the -alanine (CarnoSyn) or Placebo (PL) group.  Before (pre) and after (post) the supplementation period, participants performed a continuous, incremental cycle ergometry test to exhaustion to det. the PWCFT, VT, O2-MAX, and TTE.  There was a 13.9, 12.6 and 2.5% increase (p < 0.05) in VT, PWCFT, and TTE, resp., for the -alanine group, with no changes in the PL (p > 0.05).  There were no changes for O2-MAX (p > 0.05) in either group.  Results of this study indicate that -alanine supplementation delays the onset of neuromuscular fatigue (PWCFT) and the ventilatory threshold (VT) at submaximal workloads, and increase in TTE during maximal cycle ergometry performance.  However, -alanine supplementation did not affect maximal aerobic power (O2-MAX).  In conclusion, -alanine supplementation appears to improve submaximal cycle ergometry performance and TTE in young women, perhaps as a result of an increased buffering capacity due to elevated muscle carnosine concns. 

        • Member
          richard-703 on October 6, 2007 at 3:15 am #59292

          Most relevant.

          Beta-alanine supplementation augments muscle carnosine content and attenuates fatigue during repeated isokinetic contraction bouts in trained sprinters.Derave W, Ozdemir MS, Harris R, Pottier A, Reyngoudt H, Koppo K, Wise JA, Achten E.
          Department of Movement and Sport Sciences, Ghent University, Ghent, Belgium.

          Carnosine (beta-alanyl-L-histidine) is present in high concentrations in human skeletal muscle. The ingestion of beta-alanine, the rate-limiting precursor of carnosine, has been shown to elevate the muscle carnosine content. We aimed to investigate, using proton magnetic resonance spectroscopy (proton MRS), whether oral supplementation with beta-alanine during 4 weeks would elevate the calf muscle carnosine content and affect exercise performance in 400m sprint-trained competitive athletes. Fifteen male athletes participated in a placebo-controlled, double-blind study and were supplemented orally for 4 weeks with either 4.8g/day beta-alanine or placebo. Muscle carnosine concentration was quantified in soleus and gastrocnemius by proton MRS. Performance was evaluated by isokinetic testing during 5 bouts of 30 maximal voluntary knee extensions, by endurance during isometric contraction at 45% MVC and by the indoor 400m running time. beta-Alanine supplementation significantly increased the carnosine content in both the soleus (+47%) and gastrocnemius (+37%). In placebo, carnosine remained stable in soleus while a small and significant increase of +16% occurred in gastrocnemius. Dynamic knee extension torque during the fourth and fifth bout was significantly improved with beta-alanine but not with placebo. Isometric endurance and 400m race time were not affected by treatment. In conclusion, 1) proton MRS can be used to non-invasively quantify human muscle carnosine content; 2) muscle carnosine is increased by oral &#946;-alanine supplementation in sprint-trained athletes; 3) carnosine loading slightly but significantly attenuated fatigue in repeated bouts of exhaustive dynamic contractions; 4) the increase in muscle carnosine did not improve isometric endurance or 400m race time. Key words: Buffer capacity, ergogenic supplements, nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR), exercise performance, track-and-field.

        • Participant
          sprint400 on October 6, 2007 at 4:20 am #59293

          So in laymans terms is the report showing this stuff has no affect on improving 400 meter performance?

        • Member
          winnesota on October 6, 2007 at 4:52 am #59294

          So in laymans terms is the report showing this stuff has no affect on improving 400 meter performance?

          No, that is not what it's saying.  It is saying that it did not improve a 400-meter time over 4 weeks, which was the duration of the study.  Depending on the time of year, in-season, off-season, etc. we cant tell if an improvement is what they were looking for.  We don't even know if they were training.  Look at the other conclusions: 

          1) proton MRS can be used to non-invasively quantify human muscle carnosine content;
          2) muscle carnosine is increased by oral β-alanine supplementation in sprint-trained athletes;
          3) carnosine loading slightly but significantly attenuated fatigue in repeated bouts of exhaustive dynamic contractions;

          That is a very positive study for beta-alanine.

        • Participant
          QUIKAZHELL on October 6, 2007 at 4:53 am #59295

          We all took 2grams 3x each day of the Biotest product. Supposidly "time released" but whatever. 50$ a month doesnt put a hole in my wallet and I'm not willing to waste my time and a few dollars trying to figure out if the time released formula even matters.

          Tough to draw any conclusions from the above study on 400 performance without reading the entire study. We don't know the training protcoll for the 400 meter race, race conditions (perhaps they had shit weather for 4 weeks?), etc. etc. etc. etc. I'm sure I can find a bunch of studies that show Injecting testosterone doesn't have a positive benefit on athletic performance as well.

        • Member
          richard-703 on October 6, 2007 at 7:09 am #59296

          I read the full-text version. Both groups improved 400m times. The BA group didn't improve significantly more than the non-BA group.  They did have significantly greater improvement in a repeated leg extension test.

          From all I've read it seems good, but might be most useful for the increased training it allows.

        • Participant
          sprint400 on October 7, 2007 at 4:48 am #59297

          So I gather from what the experts are saying is we still don't really know the answer.

            Very tough to get through what is fact and propaganda.

        • Participant
          QUIKAZHELL on October 7, 2007 at 6:52 am #59298

          So I gather from what the experts are saying is we still don't really know the answer.

            Very tough to get through what is fact and propaganda.

          Why not Try it for yourself?

        • Participant
          sprint400 on October 7, 2007 at 7:08 pm #59299

          Good Idea but I'm not a competitive 400 runner so I'm not sure if the results would be of any real value.But yes it is something to think about.

        • Participant
          QUIKAZHELL on October 8, 2007 at 12:48 am #59300

          Good Idea but I'm not a competitive 400 runner so I'm not sure if the results would be of any real value.But yes it is something to think about.

          What do you run/do?
          I feel it has helped me tremeondously for the 200 and even the 100. I would recomend it for team sports with an endurance component such as soccer, wrestling, ands lax as well.

        • Participant
          mortac8 on October 8, 2007 at 1:01 am #59301

          Yea it definitely helps and with ever falling prices there's no reason not to give it a shot esp. if you are a 200m+ guy.

        • Participant
          coachformerlyknownas on October 8, 2007 at 1:37 am #59302

          Good Idea but I'm not a competitive 400 runner so I'm not sure if the results would be of any real value.But yes it is something to think about.

          With your bunch and training protocols!  I take it CJ isn't coming out again?

        • Participant
          sprint400 on October 8, 2007 at 3:03 am #59303

          No. Sorry to say I think she's settled into a life without track.We certainly could use her.

          Actually with our warm weather I've tried to implement a little more speed into our program this fall. Accell work on Mon leading into some fly 20-25-and 30m runs. and on thurs we have been using some more longer accell work leading into a bit of speed endurance. things like 3x2x60 -70-or 80m rest =2min btwn reps and 6-7 btwn sets.using weekly progressions.

            Of course this weeks forcast looks to be a bit colder so our days of speed development may be numbered.

           
          Whats your take on this topic.?I find it interesting but I really don't have enough science background to form any kind of opinion. There always seems to be some new supplement that promises great things but one never really knows. At least I don't

        • Member
          Carson Boddicker on October 8, 2007 at 5:33 am #59304

          [quote author="wsgeneral" date="1176429575"]…Anecdotally, I've had success with BA supplementation and I feel it has been extremely helpful in boosting the speed of my  anaerobic threshold as well as letting me run very strong reps on shorter recovery. 

          What dosage and how often? Does it have short-term effects like caffeine, or is it something that builds up after several days/weeks of use like creatine?
          [/quote]

          In the first six weeks I used 1.6g 4x per day, then reduced it to down to 1g 3x per day.  It is not really a short term supplement.  My understanding is that the greatest benefits come from chronic supplementation as it increases muscle carnosine levels which subsequently offers a buffering effect of sorts. 

          -CB

        • Member
          Carson Boddicker on October 8, 2007 at 5:37 am #59305

          sorry i have not posted mine and my camps experience post season BUT this [i]shizzle[/i] is legit. Training felt better, races felt stronger and everyone ran pr's except for myself but I still ran 5 of my best top 8 times of my career over 200 meters. This supp. is a must for everyone. Off-season creatine, GPP nothing, and Beta Alanine SPP alll the way through both the indoor and outdoor season. Thank you to everyone who has provided advice/feedback.

          You may actually consider the benefits of beta alanine+creatine supplementation.  As I mentioned earlier in one of Stout's study, he found that a BA+Creatine group lost more bodyfat and gained more strength then the placebo group.  It was apparent in another study, that BA+creatine didn't impact endurance performance, however. 

          -CB

        • Participant
          coachformerlyknownas on October 8, 2007 at 5:38 am #59306

          …Actually with our warm weather I've tried to implement a little more speed into our program this fall. Accell work on Mon leading into some fly 20-25-and 30m runs. and on thurs we have been using some more longer accell work leading into a bit of speed endurance. things like 3x2x60 -70-or 80m rest =2min btwn reps and 6-7 btwn sets.using weekly progressions.

            Of course this weeks forcast looks to be a bit colder so our days of speed development may be numbered.

          Interesting.  I changed our club program plan from long-short to short-long in mid-September when these kids couldn't do any SpecEnd work without pumping it early.  As you said, the weather has been fabulous so…a lot of 3-4x3x75m sessions!
           

          Whats your take on this topic.?I find it interesting but I really don't have enough science background to form any kind of opinion. There always seems to be some new supplement that promises great things but one never really knows. At least I don't

          We had an athlete last winter that was using this (he had researched it himself) and showed some (at that time) out-of-the-ordinary progress in 300m races.  I didn't think of it at the time (his workouts were often at different times) but later put it together after talking to him and reviewing the things he did.

        • Member
          Carson Boddicker on October 8, 2007 at 5:44 am #59307

          Good Idea but I'm not a competitive 400 runner so I'm not sure if the results would be of any real value.But yes it is something to think about.

          If you are more than a recreational exerciser, I think it would be wise to find Beta Alanine in your supplement program at some point.  It has merit outside of it's ergogenic properties.  Even if you train solely for aesthetic purposes, intelligent use of BA can result in a greater work capacity which will allow you to perform more work per unit time, which will allow you to lose more fat and gain more muscle.  Futher, it's effects on strength levels can also be beneficial for a person training to be "all show and no go," as it will allow you to place a greater stress on your muscles in subsequent hypertrophy emphasis phases. 

          -CB

        • Participant
          QUIKAZHELL on October 8, 2007 at 9:19 am #59308

          [quote author="QUIKAZHELL" date="1191062358"]
          sorry i have not posted mine and my camps experience post season BUT this [i]shizzle[/i] is legit. Training felt better, races felt stronger and everyone ran pr's except for myself but I still ran 5 of my best top 8 times of my career over 200 meters. This supp. is a must for everyone. Off-season creatine, GPP nothing, and Beta Alanine SPP alll the way through both the indoor and outdoor season. Thank you to everyone who has provided advice/feedback.

          Yes. I have read the same thing. Personally I do not like creatine when training (for track). I feel heavy even with 5g. Off-season however and during my powerlifting "season" I use creatine at 5-10g and discontinue use of the BA. When trasck starts I plan to not take BA for the first 6 weeks and then take it the rest of the year.

          You may actually consider the benefits of beta alanine+creatine supplementation.  As I mentioned earlier in one of Stout's study, he found that a BA+Creatine group lost more bodyfat and gained more strength then the placebo group.  It was apparent in another study, that BA+creatine didn't impact endurance performance, however. 

          -CB
          [/quote]

        • Member
          winnesota on October 8, 2007 at 9:46 am #59309

          I would recomend it for team sports with an endurance component such as soccer, wrestling, ands lax as well.

          Why do you say that?  I cant recall any studies that state that beta-alanine supports endurance function.  In fact, the results of most studies points toward the conclusion that it is of no help to endurance training.

        • Member
          Carson Boddicker on October 11, 2007 at 11:03 am #59310

          [quote]I would recomend it for team sports with an endurance component such as soccer, wrestling, ands lax as well.

          Why do you say that?  I cant recall any studies that state that beta-alanine supports endurance function.  In fact, the results of most studies points toward the conclusion that it is of no help to endurance training.
          [/quote]

          There are indeed studies showing benefits for the endurance crowd.  I think a big benefit for the long duration field sports, and some longer duration combat sports is going to be the buffering effect of carnosine.  Add creatine to BA and you've got a cocktail that has been proven to enhance anaerobic peformance all the better (Harris et al, 2003); I'd venture a guess and say that it'd be just as effective at improving repetitive anaerobic bouts in short sequence. 
           

          Stout, et al.  2005.  Effects of Beta-Alanine and Creatine Monohydrate Supplementation on PWCFT, Lactate Threshold, and Ventilatory Threshold.

          –Finds a 9% increase in Lactate Threshold in the BA group, and an 8.3% increase in the BA+CrM group. 
          –Finds a 10% change in Ventilatory Threshold in BA group, and a 17% change in BA+CrM group. 

          Harris, et al.  2006.  Effects of 14 days of Beta-Alanine Supplementation on Isometric Endurance of the Knee Extensors.
          –11.4% increase in endurance.

          -CB 

        • Member
          winnesota on October 11, 2007 at 9:47 pm #59311

          There are indeed studies showing benefits for the endurance crowd.  I think a big benefit for the long duration field sports, and some longer duration combat sports is going to be the buffering effect of carnosine.  Add creatine to BA and you've got a cocktail that has been proven to enhance anaerobic peformance all the better (Harris et al, 2003); I'd venture a guess and say that it'd be just as effective at improving repetitive anaerobic bouts in short sequence. 
           

          Stout, et al.  2005.  Effects of Beta-Alanine and Creatine Monohydrate Supplementation on PWCFT, Lactate Threshold, and Ventilatory Threshold.

          –Finds a 9% increase in Lactate Threshold in the BA group, and an 8.3% increase in the BA+CrM group. 
          –Finds a 10% change in Ventilatory Threshold in BA group, and a 17% change in BA+CrM group. 

          Harris, et al.  2006.  Effects of 14 days of Beta-Alanine Supplementation on Isometric Endurance of the Knee Extensors.
          –11.4% increase in endurance.

          -CB 

          Even though that study was about isometric endurance(lasted 2 minutes) in untrained males, good points, but I still havent seen any studies on endurance running or prolonged exercises. It might help endurance runners to a point, but power athletes much more so. Also, beta-alanine does not improve VO2 max.  And it is found mostly in type11x muscle fibers.

        • Member
          Carson Boddicker on October 13, 2007 at 11:01 am #59312

          Even though that study was about isometric endurance(lasted 2 minutes) in untrained males, good points, but I still havent seen any studies on endurance running or prolonged exercises. It might help endurance runners to a point, but power athletes much more so. Also, beta-alanine does not improve VO2 max.  And it is found mostly in type11x muscle fibers.

          The Harris study was isometric in nature, the Stout study was done on cycling performance.  Another result of the Stout study that I forgot to highlight was a ~28% increase (give or take a few percent, I'm not looking at the results) in PWCFT–Physical Work Capacity at Fatigue Threshold.  That's the difference of a marathoner finishing or dying out at 21-22 miles.  If you get that additional 28% every intensity run you do–threshold, intervals, reps, true speed–that training effect will carry over and improve your performance in your endurance event.   

          I'd be careful in arguing its not effective in endurance athletes because it doesn't raise VO2max, as Lactate Threshold and Ventilatory Threshold are also two huge components of success in endurance athletics.  If you're capable of going harder without hitting your LT, your VT, or fatigue threshold, you're going to run faster and/or longer, undoubtedly.  I can also tell you that BA supplementation myself and my clients has been quite effective at improving performance on the roads, trails, and track.

          Yes, carnosine is found in greater concentrations in type IIx fibers, but it is not solely in those fibers.  Check out the results the Roger Harris study.  After 28 days of supplementing with 3-6g of BA, they found a 64% increase in intramuscular carnosine–significant increases were seen in both type I and type II fibers.  If you are capable of achieving an increase in carnosine in type I fibers, you'll also see improvements in endurance performance. 

          -CB 

        • Member
          winnesota on October 13, 2007 at 10:05 pm #59313

          [quote author="Winnesota" date="1192119468"]
          Even though that study was about isometric endurance(lasted 2 minutes) in untrained males, good points, but I still havent seen any studies on endurance running or prolonged exercises. It might help endurance runners to a point, but power athletes much more so. Also, beta-alanine does not improve VO2 max.  And it is found mostly in type11x muscle fibers.

          The Harris study was isometric in nature, the Stout study was done on cycling performance.  Another result of the Stout study that I forgot to highlight was a ~28% increase (give or take a few percent, I'm not looking at the results) in PWCFT–Physical Work Capacity at Fatigue Threshold.  That's the difference of a marathoner finishing or dying out at 21-22 miles.  If you get that additional 28% every intensity run you do–threshold, intervals, reps, true speed–that training effect will carry over and improve your performance in your endurance event.   

          I'd be careful in arguing its not effective in endurance athletes because it doesn't raise VO2max, as Lactate Threshold and Ventilatory Threshold are also two huge components of success in endurance athletics.  If you're capable of going harder without hitting your LT, your VT, or fatigue threshold, you're going to run faster and/or longer, undoubtedly.  I can also tell you that BA supplementation myself and my clients has been quite effective at improving performance on the roads, trails, and track.

            Yes, carnosine is found in greater concentrations in type IIx fibers, but it is not solely in those fibers.  Check out the results the Roger Harris study.  After 28 days of supplementing with 3-6g of BA, they found a 64% increase in intramuscular carnosine–significant increases were seen in both type I and type II fibers.  If you are capable of achieving an increase in carnosine in type I fibers, you'll also see improvements in endurance performance. 

          -CB 
          [/quote]

          I'm still looking for studies that actually test endurance(go for more than 2 minutes).  Yes, it raised PWCFT 28%, but that was in untrained males.  Since they trained untrained males, we can argue that 28% is a number we cant completely contribute to beta-alanine.  Im not saying its not effective in endurance athletes.  In fact, I do think it can work for them, however, my point is that it is MUCH more effective in power athletes.  Yes, carnosine is found in type1 and 11 fibers, but like I said, mostly type11x. 

        • Participant
          jtitan on December 5, 2007 at 2:46 am #59314

          Here is a good read on a compound called Orotic Acid that can boost beta alanine amonst other things:

          https://bodybuilding.com/fun/jrod10.htm

        • Participant
          dirtyolprorunner on July 21, 2008 at 3:14 pm #71055

          I am interested in the thoughts of whether to cycle it (ie. take a break from using it), or, do you have to keep consistantly using it, for it to reach it’s maximum benefit?

        • Participant
          hscoach on November 2, 2008 at 2:04 am #73901

          how about we bring this thread back to life? any new information about BA?

        • Member
          aubz on February 10, 2009 at 1:26 am #77784

          I have just started taking beta-alanine. I am still in the first week. I am a 400m (400m hurdler) runner. I will let you guys know how it goes.

        • Participant
          Chad Williams on February 10, 2009 at 1:43 am #77785

          I have a couple of athletes taking it and the difference is visible in practice. Less fatigue, stronger finishes. They can feel it. I have talked to one of the ex. phys. guys here on campus and he sees no reason to cycle.

        • Member
          Aaron Springer on February 10, 2009 at 6:13 am #77792

          I’ve been toying with the idea of taking some when I get into the competitive phase.

          I’m 18, a 400/800 runner for my high school.
          I have read a good bit and it seems like it would be beneficial.

          Any reason not to? (Tapering/Peaking issues specifically)

        • Participant
          Josh Hurlebaus on February 10, 2009 at 7:32 am #77794

          I take it an absolutely love it. Chad hit the nail on the head. I feel like I can finish workouts much stronger now.

        • Participant
          QUIKAZHELL on February 10, 2009 at 2:18 pm #77812

          What dosage has everyone been using?
          Last year I kicked mine up to 3 grams 3x day (also impt. to note it is time released).

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on February 10, 2009 at 3:05 pm #77814

          I’ve had good success with it with a number of athletes. We’ve used around 6-10 grams a day depending on athlete.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Member
          aubz on February 10, 2009 at 3:13 pm #77815

          I’m currently taking 6 grams a day. It says to cut the dose in half after 4 weeks. should i do this or continue with 6 grams a day after 4 weeks

        • Participant
          Josh Hurlebaus on February 10, 2009 at 3:14 pm #77816

          Ive been using 6g a day with good results. I plan on upping it to 9g a day for the last few weeks of indoor however.

        • Participant
          sizerp on February 10, 2009 at 3:30 pm #77819

          I’ve had good success with it with a number of athletes. We’ve used around 6-10 grams a day depending on athlete.

          Does it cause any increase in muscle stiffness as creatine does?

        • Participant
          Josh Hurlebaus on February 10, 2009 at 3:40 pm #77822

          What do you mean by stiffness? Lack of flexibility?

        • Participant
          sizerp on February 10, 2009 at 5:36 pm #77829

          Muscle hardness if you will. The feeling that your muscles are tight and it is impossible to relax them. Naturally happens as a result of a lot of strength training – muscle tone. Massage therapists try to take it away the day before a competition. Creatine causes it, magnesium and muscle relaxants help fight it.

        • Participant
          QUIKAZHELL on February 11, 2009 at 2:13 am #77836

          [quote author="Mike Young" date="1234258583"]I’ve had good success with it with a number of athletes. We’ve used around 6-10 grams a day depending on athlete.

          Does it cause any increase in muscle stiffness as creatine does?[/quote]
          not at all.

        • Participant
          Nick Newman on February 11, 2009 at 2:56 am #77840

          My roomy in Belfast (a pretty good 400m runner with a best of 46.30 something) used it a lot during the time i was there…I also use it with good results i’d say.

        • Member
          Aaron Springer on April 8, 2009 at 12:47 pm #80805

          Muscle hardness if you will. The feeling that your muscles are tight and it is impossible to relax them. Naturally happens as a result of a lot of strength training – muscle tone. Massage therapists try to take it away the day before a competition. Creatine causes it, magnesium and muscle relaxants help fight it.

          Is this really common?

          I’ve only been taking 1g 3 times a day to start and I’ve been feeling a little stiff especially in the mornings and such.

          Also, I’m 153 lbs, about how much should I be taking? I was thinking about 4.5-6 during the bulk on competition.
          I plan on upping the dose for State in may 2 weeks before by about 1-1.5 grams.

        • Participant
          sizerp on April 8, 2009 at 1:44 pm #80814

          Is this really common?

          I’ve only been taking 1g 3 times a day to start and I’ve been feeling a little stiff especially in the mornings and such.

          Also, I’m 153 lbs, about how much should I be taking? I was thinking about 4.5-6 during the bulk on competition.
          I plan on upping the dose for State in may 2 weeks before by about 1-1.5 grams.

          Well, my coach tells me to take a maximum of 2g per day, and I’m 200lbs. I can’t give you evidence that it is common, but I know that among track athletes where I’m from, it is a common practice to take less that half of what bodybuilders take, and stop it 2-3 days before competitions.

          EDIT: I assume you were talking about creatine, since I was. If you were only referring to beta-alanine, I currently have no information about it causing muscle stiffness. Also, I can only look at studies for dosing information, and it seems 4-6g per day is most commonly used.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on April 9, 2009 at 12:34 am #80840

          Creatine dosage should probably be body mass dependent but most people don’t have the means to be precise to a half gram. In the few athletes that I have take it I like to split up the dosage as well in to 2-3 servings.

          I’ve found beta alanine response to be somewhat dose dependent in athletes. Anyone else notice the same?

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          Craig Pickering on April 9, 2009 at 2:23 am #80851

          I have been using Beta Alanine for 4 weeks now, and I already feel quite a large benefit. The thing I find with supplements tho is that you never know if it the supplement or something else that is causing the improvements.

          I have heard that only certain people respond to Beta Alanine. Apparently, if it makes your face itch, its not working on you. It does make my face itch alot, but it has got better recently, so perhaps my body has got used to taking it up?

        • Participant
          Josh Hurlebaus on April 9, 2009 at 2:41 am #80854

          Its just an amino acid, I can’t imagine there is a significant population whose body can’t use beta-alanine. It make me tingle when i take it. In fact thats how I remember that I took my morning dose 🙂

        • Participant
          sizerp on April 9, 2009 at 9:19 am #80870

          I tried 2-3 g of Citrulline Malate the last 2 training sessions, and it felt like it instantaneously provided the effect beta-alanine is supposed to give after a long-term use. I’m very impressed, can’t wait to try it this weekend when I have to run a longer distance (200m).

        • Participant
          DazzaBT on August 8, 2009 at 12:21 am #87288

          ” date=”1191095364″]agree.  it's good stuff.  i take 2g 3x/day

          What does that equate to in terms of measurements such as teaspoons or tablespoons? I’m afraid I have no scales, so have no-way of measuring out 1gram. Is it around a teaspoon full?

        • Participant
          Josh Hurlebaus on August 8, 2009 at 3:15 am #87292

          Grams is a measurement of weight whereas teaspoons measure volume. What does it say on the ingredient /serving size label?

        • Participant
          DazzaBT on August 8, 2009 at 3:23 am #87294

          I am aware of that, which is why I stated that I have no scales with which to measure the weight. What I’m asking is for an equivalent i.e. if you weigh out 1 gram of powder, what does it equate to in size? A teaspoon, tablespoon etc.

          Thanks

        • Participant
          Josh Hurlebaus on August 8, 2009 at 4:03 am #87296

          It depends on the density of the powder. 1 g of powdered sugar will take up much more volume than 1g of iron filings.

          My creatine bottle says one heaping teaspoon is 5g so maybe give that a go? They can’t be that different in density

        • Participant
          davan on August 8, 2009 at 4:54 am #87300

          I think Josh is right because I have generic beta alanine and creatine powders and each have scoops that end up being about the same size per gram.

          If you aren’t sure, just take more :). As Mort has said before, everyone is deficient in beta alanine.

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