Alrite guys, lately I've been focusing on upperbody strength for football and am near the end of my 10 week program for increasing my stregnth durastically… its a killer program, but anyway I've put on some weight, about 6 or 7 LBS, which I think is mostly muscle from working on low reps exercises. Since I've put on some weight in muscle I don't want to get any slower therefore I want to get rid of as much fat as I can that way If I keep my body fat % low I will hopefully not loose any speed.. does anyone have any reccomendations on how many days a week I should do cardio, and any reccomdenations on time frame/ what to do.. i was thinking treadmill 3 days a week.. but what does everyone think?
Body Fat %
-
-
Member
Christian Thibeaudeau is one person you'd want to read up on. He's a massive boy (5'9", 204, 5%BF) and knows his stuff. This article here shows how he lost almost 20% BF while gaining some muscle. It might not be football-related (or sport-specific I should say), but it'll give you an idea to start with.
https://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/256beast.jsp
Also check out John Berardi's stuff as well. Genious, pure genious.
-
Participant
bf % is overrated..
-
Participant
Explain…..
-
Participant
I tend to agree. If you're an athlete, your main concern is performance, and not how you look. after all, this isn't bodybuilding, its track and field. Granted the people who perform at the highest level also tend to have lower body fat percentages, but thats due to the type of training they undergo, and the fact that they watch what they eat. If they followed a diet/exercise plan for the sole purpose of losing body fat, they wouldn't have the energy or ability they need to win. Body fat % is important, but it shouldn't really be a focus when you train. Speed, power, endurance are far more important.
-
Participant
Bodyfat should still be a large concern for sports where strength to weight ratios are key. You will not find many sucessful track and field sprinters over 8%. In the pros you will not find many over 6%. Remember as cf says what looks right flies right. Now Im not sayin bf% testing is the most important thing and should be a focus but if an athlete is 180 pounds and 10% bodyfat through diet and training if he gets that number down he will perform better. Sinple as that. Fat don't fly.
-
Participant
lol, im not lean and cut but i can run.. i still disagree..
What is your height weight and bf%? What are your times?
Anyone "can" run. Fat people run all the time. Heck fat people even complete marathons. My throwers even "can" do sprints.
Do you not think you may be faster if/ they you dropped bodyfat?
Its common knowledge. Fat isn't helping you. Its something that is part of your body that has weight and no purpose in helping your performance like muscle. So if you have 8 pounds of something on your body and you get rid of it you're lighter and your strength to weight ratio improves which allows you to run faster. -
Participant
[quote author="utfootball4" date="1138291887"]
lol, im not lean and cut but i can run.. i still disagree..What is your height weight and bf%? What are your times?
Anyone "can" run. Fat people run all the time. Heck fat people even complete marathons. My throwers even "can" do sprints.
Do you not think you may be faster if/ they you dropped bodyfat?
Its common knowledge. Fat isn't helping you. Its something that is part of your body that has weight and no purpose in helping your performance like muscle. So if you have 8 pounds of something on your body and you get rid of it you're lighter and your strength to weight ratio improves which allows you to run faster.
[/quote]lol, I DO NOT THINK IF I LOST BF IT WOULD HELP ME, BC Most people struggle at under 8% bodyfat unless they're naturally that way so I would consider that a lower limit for most. but anyways i am 5'8 200 8-9%bf an i do not have abs nor cut like u r but i run a 4.38 yd dash and 10.5 100m.. we should race sometimes, i get free plane tickets??
-
Participant
[quote author="QUIKAZHELL" date="1138292375"]
[quote author="utfootball4" date="1138291887"]
lol, im not lean and cut but i can run.. i still disagree..What is your height weight and bf%? What are your times?
Anyone "can" run. Fat people run all the time. Heck fat people even complete marathons. My throwers even "can" do sprints.
Do you not think you may be faster if/ they you dropped bodyfat?
Its common knowledge. Fat isn't helping you. Its something that is part of your body that has weight and no purpose in helping your performance like muscle. So if you have 8 pounds of something on your body and you get rid of it you're lighter and your strength to weight ratio improves which allows you to run faster.
[/quote]lol, I DO NOT THINK IF I LOST BF IT WOULD HELP ME, BC Most people struggle at under 8% bodyfat unless they're naturally that way so I would consider that a lower limit for most. but anyways i am 5'8 200 8-9%bf an i do not have abs nor cut like u r but i run a 4.38 yd dash and 10.5 100m.. we should race sometimes, i get free plane tickets??
[/quote]
I said in my last post all I needed to say. It is quite obvious if soemone is carrying excess bodyfat they will perform better in speed/power events where strength to weight ratio reigns supreme. To add to that I work with athletes every day. I am a strength and conditioning coach and a track coach. When athletes bodyfat drop there is usually an increase in there vertical jump, pullup max reps, and sprint times. Since you do not "think" that dropping bodyfat would help your sprint times perhaps give it a try sometime and report back although I agree 8-9% is an acceptable range especially for a football player. But if sprinting was your main focus you may perform better if you got lower. That is all I can see without seeing you in person. Also note this thread is not about just yourself (who may in fact be an exeption to this rule) but a thread about bf% recommendations.
-
Participant
each athlete body is diff some may perfrom better at 6 some may perform better at 12 so u cant say that lowering bf will make an athlete perform better..
-
Participant
I am going to have to agree with Quik on this one. I have personally dropped my body fat percentage for nationals each year when I was competing and all my events improved across the board. I was able to improve my strength while still getting all the proper nutrition my body required. I didn't ever eat less or starve myself to drop my BF%, I just ate smart and cut all the crap out of my diet for a month.
-
Participant
1. Most people vastly underestimate their bodyfat. I see people without veins in their abs and thighs try to tell me they're below 10%, which they probably think because they have some abs. Look up and you can find some pictures of pro's without the nice lighting and many (although you'll always have your Linford's and the like) don't look that much more ripped than somebody who eats very clean and works out daily.
2. Many pro's have some sort of assitance that allows for below normal bodyfat levels that cannot be maintained without help for long periods of time.
-
Member
An excerpt from a Defrancotraining.com/t-nation.com:
Speaking of conditioning, let's talk about bodyfat and athleticism. Does it matter? Some say who cares what their bodyfat percentage is as long as they're performing. Other coaches make it a goal to get their athletes ripped. Where do you stand?
JD: Excess bodyfat doesn???t help anyone! It only serves as an anchor when you try to perform! I don???t want an athlete carrying 300 pounds of shit in a 200-pound bag! Obviously, not all athletes need to try and achieve the same bodyfat levels. For example, an offensive lineman doesn???t need to be as lean as a wide receiver. But, the bottom line is that there's no advantage to carrying around too much excess baggage.
-
KeymasterIn events where the demand for speed and / or movement economy is at a premium leaner is alway better. This includes jumping and sprinting events as well as endurance events. In events where strength is a major factor (such as linemen and the throwing events in track and field) higher body fat percentages are permissible.
ELITETRACK Founder
-
Participant
1. Most people vastly underestimate their bodyfat. I see people without veins in their abs and thighs try to tell me they're below 10%, which they probably think because they have some abs. Look up and you can find some pictures of pro's without the nice lighting and many (although you'll always have your Linford's and the like) don't look that much more ripped than somebody who eats very clean and works out daily.
2. Many pro's have some sort of a[b]s[/b]sitance that allows for below normal bodyfat levels that cannot be maintained without help for long periods of time.
I agree to a certain extent but you cant view striation and vasculararity as the only indicator of very low bf%.
I have had people told me "no way your 4-5%. This is exactly because of what you said. These bodybuilders who look this way who are 3-4% diet and dehydrate themselves to acheive this look. We as athletes may be retaining some water but still may be 4-5%. -
Participant
I still find it very hard to believe for most. I have veins in my abs (not just the sides of them, but through them that you can see) and in my quads, hamstrings (although with my hairy ass legs, you can only see when I shave them), some in my shoulders, but I certainly don't consider myself 4-5% as that is simply a ridiculous idea. Look at even natural bodybuilders. Yes, they do water deplete, but that does not make up that big of a difference in vascularity, striations, and such.
-
Participant
Bodybuilders have vascularity due to their training as well that sprinters and jumpers typically won't have. Endurance runners typically have the same effect as bodybuilders with regards to vascularity in legs, but probably even much more so.
-
Participant
Being as lean as you can be can be bad for performance but not carrying excess bodyfat is good for all sports.
As with most things in sport and life it is a balancing act.
I had a head coach tell me I should be under 12% bodyfat as Hammer thrower. As a thrower of 5'9" weighing 215lbs at probably 15% who run faster than the 100, 200 and 400m state champions over 30m. Me spending time doing the conditioning work was a waste of time. However the same body doing 100m needed to lose some bodyfat.
Mike hit the nail on the head.
-
Participant
damn thats high for ur size, who test u?
-
Keymaster
Senri-
What are you doing to lose BF? If you really are at 18% (which is quite high for a trained athlete) it shouldn't be that hard to lose BF.ELITETRACK Founder
-
Participant
i can see muscle definition and all, but its all in the belly. I train normally the body doesnt wanna give itup. IT holds on to it like no tomorrow. Lowest i been while training was 162lbs. Goal is to go down to 154 or something. Thing is i need something cheap that gives me protein, and something good with carbs, all i have going is oatmeal. Tuna i gotta buy again, im not good on the money department. I have low alternatives to foods, i dont have knoweldge of whats good. Cottage cheese i bought but it tastes nothing and i dont know what to make it with to taste good. My body has hard time going down past 160, it doesnt wanna give. I dont know about calorie intake as well as you lose weight sounds to confusing. I simply train and see what comes about my speed. Interesting enough i fool alot of people cause i dont look like i lift weights or run fast, yet do fine in both categories, but being lighter and strong shuold help me abit.
-
Participant
my mom buys frutis and veggies. I eat alot of it, only fruit im intaking at the moment is bananas with my oatmeal in the morning. drink lots of water, my mom makes pasta and speghett i only eat those in the afternoon. At night i might have a protein shake or some oatmeal. Now the thing is i have'nt been doing any tempo work whatsoever. Also when i did tempo work i didnt lose much weight either very little. I try to eat 4-6 times a day. I just want to know basic foods i can eat for those 4-6, i can do the volume of eating myself, i just lack the knowledge for knowing what has the proteins and low fat, or the healthy fats, and the complex carbs what have you.
-
Participant
A couple of options to mix with the cottage cheese
– yogurt
– flax seed (crushed and whole) and peanut butterHave a read of
-
Member
From what I can tell you are lacking protein in your diet. Eat foods like fish, chicken breast, turkey breast, lean cuts of beef–eye of round, london broil, sirlion, and pork tenderloin, egg whites. There are many more, just make it lean protein.
I would suggest that you follow a protocol of your preworkout meals being a protein plus fat, then shift to protein+carb postworkout. If you are going to take only one protein shake a day, I'd say it belongs immediately postworkout with carbohydrate added as well–this can be as simple as a quality whey added to Gatorade. Maltodexterin (an elongated chain of glucose) is the best carb for glycogen resynthesis. It is also important to note that John Berardi has found a 22% increase in glyocogen resynthesis with a protein+CHO beverage as opposed to CHO alone.
As high blood levels of insulin, which is important at times (PWO, as it is very anabolic), prevents lipolysis, the protein+fat meals early in the day will control insulin release and allow your body to be fueled primarily by fat. You may say that you cannot go low carb preworkout, but actually it is much more difficult to elevate glycogen stores outside the 6-hour PWO window where you'd consume your protein+carb meals.
You can get a much deeper understanding of this concept on John Berardi's website and T-Mag where he hands out tons of outstanding ideas. As this is more nutrition related, as opposed to strength and conditioning related, I apologize for my mispost in advance.
-
Member
A couple of options to mix with the cottage cheese
– yogurt
– flax seed (crushed and whole) and peanut butterYogurt mixed with cottage cheese may be an "okay" idea in the 6 hours PWO, but in that case I wouldn't include peanut butter. I don't like milk products outside this period because they happen to elevate insulin production/secretion (high insulin index) even though their glycemic index is low, which will prevent lipolysis. I enjoy cottage cheese mixed with cinnamon, or during the hot months I'll throw in a dash of Lawry's Seasoning Salt to account for lost sodium on runs. These ideas still may bore you, but it would be a good idea to get used to the flavor of foods without dressings/sauces as many times they are the most unhealthy part of the meal.
-
Participant
Yogurt mixed with cottage cheese may be an "okay" idea in the 6 hours PWO, but in that case I wouldn't include peanut butter.
Sorry should have clarified, with yougurt is a nice dessert. The peanut butter/flax is a seperate way of having it. Peanut butter, cott cheese and yougurt…not even I would eat that 🙂
Re the JB theory of partioning and insulin levels. There has been a lot of heated and fierce debate regarding that subject. The latest I saw was that he has modified his thinking on it and it appears Joel Marion is pushing it more than JB himself is now.
-
Member
[quote author="wsgeneral" date="1143249464"]
Re the JB theory of partioning and insulin levels. There has been [b]a lot[/b] of heated and fierce debate regarding that subject. The latest I saw was that he has modified his thinking on it and it appears Joel Marion is pushing it more than JB himself is now.
His Precision Nutrition product says otherwise, also just this week JB discussed with me the negatives on the yogurt except the late eve snack mixed with a milk protein to fortify active cultures of the digestive system. [/quote]
-
Participant
hmmm, okay i took dextrose with protein shake PWO, but i do have maltodextrin,i would often take both dextrose an maltodextrin together along with protein shake PWO. I will try cottage cheese and cinammon, i would eat tuna with yogurt cause i cant eat dry tuna, i eat it with skim milk yogurt and it has almost no sugar., i would take this in afternoon. Before workout 2 hours before i would eat pasta or sphegetthi is my mom happened to make them, but i really need help in grilling and ccoking or baking the chicken breasts, so i can make them freely rather then rely on my mother cooking it for me(what temperature, how long,etc etc). I get in plenty of protein, well i aim for 180grams, protein shake i take twice once in breakfast and another at night, i will take three shakes on workout days. Weightroom i would do the dextrose/maltodex with PS on PWO but on track days after workout i just take normal protein shake. I just got off a creatine cycle as well, although it didnt do much. I need to know what salads are good to eat. This way i dont have to eat tuna, oatmeal, or steak all the damn time when i dont know any alternatives.
-
Member
Dextrose/Malto is perhaps an even better combo to facillitate rehydration and refueling.
-
Participant
WSGeneral,
I'm no way near as anti JB as many but I certainly don't buy into his theories as you appear to. For some balance I suggest you look at https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12701&highlight=Berardi
or go to https://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/ and / or https://strengthnews.net/forum/ and ask for comments on his stuff. -
Member
From a different perspective, I also question this almost obsessive practice of consuming ultra-high GI carbs with protein after a workout. I personally feel the negative side of "insulin sensitivity" has been neglected by those that preach this practice. I personally experienced increases in resting glucose level and incresed blood levels of triglycerides after consuming "SURGE" (designed by JB) for several months. JB et al tells me that it's OK to consume these foods after a workout becuase your body is so sensitive to insulin. So why did my blood sugar level increase? Maybe it's nothing. Maybe it''s not. My own research into this still leaves me with important, unanswered questions.
My pre- and post w/o meals are thus now made of real food (meat, veggies, grains). I'm still getting bigger (a goal of mine), and my blood chemistry profile is stable. I personally do not consume artifical products made from maltodextrin and glucose anymore.
For those that do, I suggest keeping an eye on your resting glucose levels at annual health-checks to see if it's creeping inexorably upwards. Hopefully it's not an issue for anyone, but it never hurts to keep an eye on it IMO.
(Diabetes is not funny, and I sure as hell don't need to become diabetic in order to be convinced of that).
WiZ
-
Member
WSGeneral,
I'm no way near as anti JB as many but I certainly don't buy into his theories as you appear to. For some balance I suggest you look at [url]https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12701&highlight=Berardi[/url]
or go to [url]https://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/[/url] and / or [url]https://strengthnews.net/forum/[/url] and ask for comments on his stuff.Thank you, sir. I'll look into it.
-
Participant
Peanut butter? You want to be ripped and you're eating stuff that is mostly fat (not even good fat @ that)?
I eat PB my self in very small amounts virtually as a cheat snack, but if I really needed to drop bodyfat (I'm very low so it's not an issue), PB and milk would be the first things dropped from my diet. -
Keymaster
Peanut butter? You want to be ripped and you're eating stuff that is mostly fat (not even good fat @ that)?
Peanut butter is actually good fat…at least natural peanut butter. In fact some recent research suggests that eating nuts and nut products may actually help you LOSE body fat.
Senri-
It definitely sounds like you need to up your clean protein intake. Adding fiber may also help.ELITETRACK Founder
-
Participant
okay im eating more chicken, all i need is to find out how to cook and eat it with to not get all the other stuff cause i cant eat pure chicken breast its to dry. Second i take protein shakes twice a day or even three times, i eat yogurt with 3 grams sugar no fat with tuna. everyday i either make a shake consisting of protein/one banana/oatmeal/for flavor sometimes i put vanilla ice cream, but since i got vanilla flavor protein i put that no more. Also another option for breakfast which i do alot in the morning is just skim milk with oatmeal and one banana, at night time i will eat oatmeal with skim milk if im feeling hungry. I do eat greens everyday, my mom complains taht i eat all the legumes and salads, i eat the fruits, i usually buy them and eat them in the afternoon and throughout the day when possible rest of the day.
The problem is i dont know how to alternate my eating habits when i lose weight i cant do the same thing cause then i will platue at the magical number 162.
Today i weighed myself and i weigh 171lbs although i can see my serratus anterior muscles and barely see my two abs, my limbs will get defined but its hard seeing my abs cause of the big belly. My limbs look fine with my legs maybe having some fat not alot. I dont eat candy, cookies, cake, or drink beer. Yet my belly looks like i drink lots of beer. I probably have visceral adipose tissue underneath the stomach muscles. I dont know how to get that checked though. Yet i run very fast for my bodytype, ever since grade 4 was the last time i saw four of my abs. I have dealt with this fo rmany years, this shizzle dont wanna go down man i need super nutritionist. I need a super one from vancouver best of the best to figure this out
-
Participant
for davan
breakfast- oatmeal with skim milk and a banana as well as protein shake
4 hours later around lunch i have tuna with peanut butter, or tuna with yogurt
mid-day another 3 or 4 hours later i have chicken breast with 1/4 cup of rice or just eat the chicken breast with salad and veggies
2 hours later which is around 5:00 around this time i have track practice and take protein shake after track workout
3 more hours past it is around dinner time i have chicken breast again with rice 1/4 cup with more viggies so i eat same thing again, or if no veggies i eat fruits
before bed i eat oatmeal with skim milk or protein shake with skim milk instead of water.
what can i eat cottage cheese with though salad and what can i put on it to not make it dry. I wanna eat something that wont dry in my mouth i hate eating dry food and most sauces have to many sodium,carbs, and fat. Suggestions are welcome please.
-
Participant
Peanut butter and tuna together… just no.
I understand that mike says peanut oils can be beneficial, but you are in need of lowering your bodyfat first and most importantly. To do that, you will need to at least some form of macronutrient splitting (protein + carb meals and protein + fat meals seperate).Your breakfast has probably too many carbs, though it's hard to say without knowing amounts.
Your lunch is minimal. I would change the tuna + peanut butter to just a tuna salad with a variety of greens and other vegetables. Try chicken salad here with yogurt as an alternative.Your biggest problem is your before bed snack. OATMEAL AND MILK? Not a good idea. How about an egg omelet w/ fish oils or some REAL food as opposed to the very high carb/low protein meal you have there? You could even get away with a double serving shake, but you need to alter that meal if you want to lose fat. I am going to guess this is where most of your problems are coming from. You want to get cut, but you're probably taking in over 50g of carbs right before bed.
What to eat with cottage cheese? Just eat it. It's not hard–even if you don't like the flavor. Put it on your tongue and chase it down. Some people like to mix fruit and I have mixed protein powder with it in the past to make a very tastey, but thick substance.
You don't want to eat a dry salad? Well you do always have water to drink with it, but vingar has a variety of body composition benefits and will provide a different flavor.
-
Participant
I agree with davan about the before bed meal. Oatmeal b4 bed is fat-burnning suicide. Its VERY counter-productive.
However, I would like to argue some points made by davan
Its seems you dislike milk and pb ALOT in any "cutting" diet(davan)
Its a proven fact that calcium can aid in the process of fat-loss. Although there are many sources of calcium that don't invovle dairy, dairy has many of its own benefits. Furthermore, "natty"(natural) peanut butter is quite good for you no matter what your goal may be. besides olive oil and fish, its one of the healthiest readily available fats to consume. It also doesnt contain trans fatty acids and processed ingredients such as the likes of Skippy or Jif.I argue this from the view of someone who has had great experiences with the use of these food stuffs. I've lost 20 pounds of fat with these incorporatred into my diet. However, that is not to say that my diet was not already quite balanced.
Therefore, my piece of advise would be to continue consuming pb and milk, however eat them in limited amounts. Good variety kept me sane during my fat-loss stage. Fibre will also do you wonders.
P.S. I was going to suggest eating cc with pb but seeing as how you alrdy dislike cc, I'd disregard that suggestion altogether. Although the concoction may posibly be the most disgusting thing to swallow, the benefits of a slow steady flow of protein to your muscles during your sleep is great. Catabolism sucks.
-
Keymaster
Why do you guys dislike oatmeal at night? I actually think a small portion of whole (not instant) oats can be a good way of staving off catabolism when combined with a whey-cassein mix due to it's effect on slowing the digestion process.
ELITETRACK Founder
-
Participant
Why do you guys dislike oatmeal at night? I actually think a small portion of whole (not instant) oats can be a good way of staving off catabolism when combined with a whey-cassein mix due to it's effect on slowing the digestion process.
this is precisely why i eat the oatmeal at breakfast and at night. So i dont get drowsy and crash, but because it helps me stay awake throughout the day since im digesting the carb process slowly. I thought of taking it at night since my sleep was at a catabolic state of eating for number of hours while im sleeping, which is why i eat the oatmeal. Just as mike says
-
Participant
I get my calcium from dark greens and cottage cheese (I eat 20oz of cc for breakfast, so I am getting a significant amount), so no worry about the milk. In fact, most people I know who dropped milk are glad they did after they feel the effects. Milk on it's own is far too high in sugar content to be productive for people trying to get cut, in my opinion.
Why am I against pb and milk for this guy? He is a trained athlete and cannot get to a respectable bf % and people are recommending him foods that are EXTREMELY counter-productive to those goals. If you have naturally high metabolism and a low bodyfat, you can get away with certain things that are not awfully conducive towards losing fat (aka high carbs before bed). This guy obviously does not and needs to do what he can.
Senri, you are not digesting the carbs all that slow through the day. Protein, yes, but the carbs, no. If peanut butter and oats are going to be the main course of the diet (which is certainly appears to be), then this guy has no hope for fatloss unless he seriously ramps up the volume on the low intensity/tempo sessions.
-
Member
Oats and milk are not bad foods, they just have certain times where they are best consumed, which would be in the post exercise window where the majority of carbohydrate is stored as carbohydrate and not fat.
-
Keymaster
Oats are definitely not a good post workout food because they take so long to digest and have a high proportion of fiber which does not contribute any energy to your system. Oats should be reserved for time slots when you want a slowly digesting form of sustained energy…..such as early in the morning (to keep you sated before lunch) or before bedtime.
ELITETRACK Founder
-
Member
Perhaps I should clarify. When I say post exercise window, I'm referring to a six hour window following exercise. Provided your liquid PWO meals (in the IMMEDIATE PWO window) are on target, you can use oats to adequately supply the body with carbohydrate. I would use them towards the end of this six hours for the sustained energy release you have spoken of.
-
Member
Does someone know of a really really long list of foods that are ok to eat, and foods you should avoid as an athlete? I mean, obviously you can't eat a ton of food even if it is really good for you, but it really annoys me when people say eat clean foods, like lean proteins, then only give like four examples. I.E. I can't keep alot of lean protein in stock, so most of my protein comes from shakes, which is easy to stock (1 jar lasts me like two months), so what other options do I have? Are there any high protein vegetables or something like that that is cheap? I can't eat eggs, or tuna, (my body rejects them) so I know thats a problem, but what other options do I have? Also what do you eat peanut butter with? From most nutrition articles I've read bread is really bad for you. I also need to lose some weight, I hate trying to run 400s at 190 pounds.
-
Member
"There are no bad foods, just bad times to eat them." I lifted this quote from a nutrition professor, and a recent article I read. While there are some foods you should probably avoid, in the case of natural foods (unprocessed stuff) it is largely true. I would say that protein shakes are better than no protein at all, but it does little to raise the Thermic Effect of Feeding, which is obviously beneficial in the fight against fat mass.
-
Participant
Wisconman:
I would say most people could eat all organic and not worry about how much they eat, assuming they had plenty of fruits/veggies and avoided juices/milks (these are the easiest way to rack up a bunch of calories fast). My first question to you is, how many vegetables are you eating a day any what? If you are serious about trimming down that training alone is not giving you, you need at least 2 dark green salads a day (lots of spinach, carrots, some tomatoes, etc.) with your lunch and with your dinner. You increase the number of vegetables and you automatically increase the amount of calories you will burn via the Thermogenic Effect (see wsgeneral's post). Be honest with yourself when we say "a lot" as well–vegetables like corn don't cut it on their own (can be a great addition though) and you need to be looking at brocolli, spinach, carrots, and other veggies for your source here. -
Member
I will say a few things to davan's post.
In regards to organic food. I would argue that although they have slightly better micronutrients than commercially farmed foods, they still contribute energy regardless of if they are organic or not. If one were to eat a tub of organic peanut butter for breakfast with a loaf of organic whole wheat bread and some fruits and veggies (to satisfy this theory), you will become fat. If you want to become lean you must create an energy deficit. Am I saying that a calorie is a calorie? No, just that you will become fat if you take in more energy than you are spending.Veggies are the best carbs at increasing the Thermic Effect of Feeding, although still mediocre at raising the TEF; protein increases it twice what any other macronutrient does. Point here: Eat lean protein at every meal.
It is certainly important to eat a large quantity of veggies as they aid in many important things. Most notably, they are probably one of the best whole food sources of vitamins and minerals (eat a variety of veggies for a diverse micronutrient profile), but they also are responsible in maintaining the acid/base balance in the body. To preface this, the Western Diet (processed food) produces a chornicly elevated blood acid level–it's small but it's there. This is important because the body operates at a slightly basic pH(around 7.4), and only allows small fluctuations before it takes action to return it to homeostasis. The main homeostatic responses are:
1.) Osteoclastic (bone destroying) activity to use the calcium, a highly basic element, to buffer the acids from feeding. As you may guess, continued breakdown of bones without replenishing them results in weaker bones–in almost all cases this isn't a good thing.
2.) Catabolism of muscle for its glutamine. Because glutamine is also very basic, your body will essentially "eat" muscle tissue to release the glutamine into the blood stream as a buffer. Loss of muscle, eh? Makes veggies seem a bit more appealing to a hard training athlete. Obviously with loss of muscle tissue, your performance can drop–again not a good thing.
Other studies have seen insulin resistance, lower insulin growth factor-1 levels, and I believe hampered growth hormone secretion–perhaps someone may know. So for those of you guys who are wanting peak performance and don't like veggies, reconsider. -
Participant
You already know my beef with peanut butter, so let's not go there.
I will say a few things to davan's post.
In regards to organic food. I would argue that although they have slightly better micronutrients than commercially farmed foods, they still contribute energy regardless of if they are organic or not. If one were to eat a tub of organic peanut butter for breakfast with a loaf of organic whole wheat bread and some fruits and veggies (to satisfy this theory), you will become fat. If you want to become lean you must create an energy deficit. Am I saying that a calorie is a calorie? No, just that you will become fat if you take in more energy than you are spending.Veggies are the best carbs at increasing the Thermic Effect of Feeding, although still mediocre at raising the TEF; protein increases it twice what any other macronutrient does. Point here: Eat lean protein at every meal.
It is certainly important to eat a large quantity of veggies as they aid in many important things. Most notably, they are probably one of the best whole food sources of vitamins and minerals (eat a variety of veggies for a diverse micronutrient profile), but they also are responsible in maintaining the acid/base balance in the body. To preface this, the Western Diet (processed food) produces a chornicly elevated blood acid level–it's small but it's there. This is important because the body operates at a slightly basic pH(around 7.4), and only allows small fluctuations before it takes action to return it to homeostasis. The main homeostatic responses are:
1.) Osteoclastic (bone destroying) activity to use the calcium, a highly basic element, to buffer the acids from feeding. As you may guess, continued breakdown of bones without replenishing them results in weaker bones–in almost all cases this isn't a good thing.
2.) Catabolism of muscle for its glutamine. Because glutamine is also very basic, your body will essentially "eat" muscle tissue to release the glutamine into the blood stream as a buffer. Loss of muscle, eh? Makes veggies seem a bit more appealing to a hard training athlete. Obviously with loss of muscle tissue, your performance can drop–again not a good thing.
Other studies have seen insulin resistance, lower insulin growth factor-1 levels, and I believe hampered growth hormone secretion–perhaps someone may know. So for those of you guys who are wanting peak performance and don't like veggies, reconsider. -
Member
I realize you dislike peanut butter, and I tend to stay away from it for the most part (although my reason is that I have a tiny allegy, not because it has fat). My purpose with that example was to make the point that if you over eat you will get fat. I could replace the peanut butter (which was eaten in excess) in the example with any food and you'd still get fat provided it is over eaten.
-
Participant
what is a good weight anyway for someone that is 172.5cm (5'8.5) like me?
And wsgeneral recommend any sauces, or do i have to chug tasteless stuff with water. So far for salads i use the red wine vinegar, hmmmmm vinegar. always eating with cottage cheese for most part.
-
Member
I am not really a fan of using "sauces" (BBQ, Dressing, Mayo, other high calorie trash) although I do use a lot of vinegar (pretty much every kind), and many types of spices. By using certain spice combinations, you can cater to any ethnic taste without adding rediculous quanitites of fats and oils. Not to exclude oils, I use olive oil and flax oils with vinegars as salad dressings at times of the day when I am consuming protein+fat meals.
-
Participant
-
Keymaster
Hey, i was just wondering how accurate calipers are for determining percent body fat. My PE teacher (NSCA member, certified personal trainer, degree in exercise science) measured me at around 3 percent. I am very lean, but that seems a bit ridiculous to me.
In the hands of an experienced practitioner calipers can be a very reliable (although not always accurate) means of assessing body fat percentage. That is the actual reading may not reflect your actual body fat percentage but monitoring it's change from one reading to the next can provide useful information.
ELITETRACK Founder
Viewing 73 reply threads
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.