Okay, so I’ve been working out a lot more lately, and I was wondering if it was normal to crave a lot more carbs? I know that you’ll want more food, but I just want carbs…I don’t even want protiens. Lately I practically want to eliminate protiens, but I know you need them. So, I was wondering, is it really that bad to cut out the majority of protiens and eat mainly complex carbs? Will it hurt my training? Or will I be alright?
Carbs and protiens
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KeymasterI have a couple questions before I can answer your question:
1). when you say ‘working out more’ are you referring to weight training, increased milage, etc.
2). what is your event?
In general, regardless of what type of training you do you’d still want to keep some proteins in your diet. They help in recovery from activities that cause tissue damage (which includes distance running and weight training and everything in between).
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
i thought the glycogen recovery period was within the first hour after workout completion, and you should try to get some protein in to begin repairing muscle damage during that window. add in some electrolytes in a couple of cups of gatorade, and eat a regular meal within two hours of workout completion. what do you say, mike?
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Keymaster
Tank-
I’d say your advice is right on. I’d add that in the ‘window’ you referred to, the primary objective should be to get in some carbs because that is the primary thing your muscles are in need of. Doing this will have two major benefits:1. You’ll replenish your muscle glycogen supplies. During the first 60 minutes after exercise, the muscles are like a sponge and the primary thing they are craving is glycogen.
2. Eating carbs during that window will induce an insulin spike which will help in the uptake of other important nutrients into the muscle. This is why it’s good to eat or drink something with a decent amount of carbs and also some proteins because your body will be able to use the proteins more efficiently due to the insulin response. This is also the same reason why you want to take creatine with a carbohydrate because the insulin spike will better assist the uptake of creatine into the muscles.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
The answer to your question, Mike, is when I say working out, I mean training. And no, not with weights. I’ve been trying to lose some of my excess bulk by doing aerobic mostly so I can start really training. I’m coaching, as I’ve said before, but I really want to do track and field in college when I go and I know I have to be better. My events include pole vault, triple jump, long jump, high jump, 100, 200, and I wanted to try for some others like the 400, jav, hurdles etc, etc… I just need to work on the technique, but first, I’m getting my body ready by training and trying to eat what I’m supposed to. So, from what it sounds like, both carbs and proteins are good, but it’s okay and maybe even better to eat more carbs, right? I mean, I need protein, but not a ton. Any other tips?
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Keymaster
Here are a few more suggestions:
*Not all fats are bad. In fact, some fats like those found in avocados, nuts, fish, and certain plant oils (olive, flaxseed, etc.) are very very good for you.
*Not all carbs are good. Limit sugar intake and make sure that the vast majority of carbs you eat are from nutrient dense products that are either high in fiber or complex carbohydrates. When I say nutrient dense, I mean foods that have high vitamin, mineral and antioxidant profiles. Bread and pasta have terrible nutrient density profiles and are pretty much just empty carbohydrate calories.
*Fruits are the exception to the above stated sugar rule because they are so high in nutrients.
*When eating meat try to make it as lean a cut as possible because animal fats are not very good for you, especially those found in red meat.
*Protein intake can be catered to what you want to accomplish with your training. For example, if you are just trying to be active you should eat 0.4-0.6 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. If you are seriously training athlete you should try to eat 0.6-0.9/lb.; if you are trying to put on muscle mass or are doing a lot of high intensity work the ratio should be 0.9-1.5g/lb.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
i find that if i dont maximize the glyocgen window (first 30 minutes post workout) i am dying for carbs later in the day. soon as im done my weights or track work, i grab my recovery drink andget it down as soon as i can. i know they say you have 30-60 minutes to get carbs in, but i have found that the sooner i get them in, the better they absorb.
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Keymaster
Nightmare-
I’ve found the same thing. I’ve also found that a little protein along with the carbs in the first 30 minutes actually satiates me longer than just carbs.I believe I’ve read research indicating that the 0-15 minute time frame post-exercise is not the best due to diverted blood flow to the gastrointestinal system.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
would that depend on hydration levels?
i would agree 100% after training outside in the heat with a reduction in body water levels, espically if no fluid replacement (with electrolytes) was used.
but under gym conditions, i havent had a problem.
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Keymaster
I’m not exactly sure….I’ve never personally noticed a difference (0 vs. 30 min) or had problems either way. I’m just recalling some literature I’ve read. I would imagine it would be highly dependent on a couple factors the most important of which would be (like you said) hydration levels.
ELITETRACK Founder
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ParticipantThe magic window of post recovery drinks is one of those paralysis by analysis subjects. Case study you have an athlete that runs the 400m. He does a 320m run at 95%+ speed and then starts to warm-down. Does one pound the recovery drink right after the run or after the cooling period? I think the cool down should be 20 minutes long and then a drink should be consumed. Then we throw in a icebath! What then? Thoughts.
As for protiens, I like the use of casein, and milk-protein isolates after workouts near the evening a few hours before bed. I don’t believe in the catabolism during sleep since bears can hibernate and burn up to 250 pounds of fat without loosing muscle or bone mass over months. NASA wants to learn how this works to help their astronauts but they fail to realize it’s not the lack of movement that preserves the bone mineral content, but the gradual lowering of their metabolism. Their heart rate goes down to 8-10 beats per minute, Lance Armtrong eat your heart out (bad pun).
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Keymaster
That’s how I’d do it also (320m, cooldown, icebath). During the cooldown, the sponge that is the athlete’s muscles is still being squeezed dry of everything it’s got (glycogen) and to ingest prior to the conclusion of the workout would seem premature, especially in non-endurance (i.e- major glycogen depletion and possible need for immediate replenishment) workouts.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
re — post workout protein drinks….
how does one determine one that's best?
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Di Pasquale wrote:
The answer to this insulin conundrum in my view, besides stimulating insulin release at the right times, is the realization that insulin is only part of the anabolic/anti-catabolic puzzle. There are several other factors involved, the presence of which can determine the end result of insulin action??. Being fat adapted also changes some other parameters. For example, ***as far as post training nutrition, the presence of fat combined with protein and limited carbs does not decrease the insulin response or the absorption of amino acids and protein as it does with those who are carb adapted.**** The use of amino acids and fat, with a minimum of carbs post workout, in someone who is fat adapted, besides leading to an increase in insulin (without as much of an adverse effect on fat metabolism – at least for our purposes) and not affecting the absorption of protein and amino acids from the GI tract, it also dramatically increases intramuscular triacylglycerol (IMTG) levels, which is the fat that is first used up with exercise, before blood levels of FFA. Not only are IMTG levels good for providing needed energy while training, but they also increase muscle size.
At the same time there is also some increase in glycogen levels, both hepatic and muscular, first of all through the small amounts of carbs that can be taken post workout (and that are part of my MRP LoCarb, something I recommend for people as a post training meal if they're rushed), and more importantly through the gluconeogenic process in which the body forms only the carbs it needs by making glucose mainly from fats (the glycerol portion) and protein (various amino acids including glutamine).
===============maybe i'm reading it wrong but is he saying that Protein/Amino type drinks are not effective for those who have use fat as their primary fuel?
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Participant
I will have the boldness to say I don't agree with his comments but he makes great points about current feedback and states of pathways.
(1) Mauro is into low amounts of carbohydrates in general…so this will bias his notions of metabolism.
(2) Research and empherical evidence supports the standard formulas such as GO!, Surge, and proglycosin work very well and have similar designs.
(3) I still don't know what his point is, it is a little above my head or he needs to be clear about some things.
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Participant
Thanks KT for the full article, now it make sense to me…
When an athlete doing power events is training, they have two variables that must be in alignment in order to work. First is the Training.
Proper loading and energy system designs will help the body with repair and body composition. This is why I am in favor of low intensity training to support the CNS and structure of the body. Aerobic training helps carve the athlete to the bone to make a mechanical advantage for weight to power ratios…but they also balance the metabolism so that they can use rocket fuel (ATP from carbohydrates) for speed and power, and use fat for support training like hurdle mobility, isolated core training, intra receovery times, and general processes of every day living.
Dietary influences support the training and enhance the effects. An example of this is glycogen synthesis after heavy bouts of SPEED ENDURANCE, adding carbs without the post recovery times will not increase intramuscular stores if done at a random time.
I think Dr. Di P has some great points, but the chicken and egg arguement can be valid as well. I think you can be "fat dependent" by without so strict if you train hard and eat real food. Again, paleolithic man had no cavities, were taller, and with the bone stress theories proposed by Dr. Landry the might have been very strong. They didn't neet the metabolic diet since nature from a macro sense took care of the species.
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Participant
It was said that 20 minutes after the workout or right after the warm down the post workout drink should be consumed. Now if you are weight training after the speed day do you have a recovery drink after the warm down and then after the lifting workout? Or is only one time good enough?
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Participant
fluke,
good question… also how about when taking amino's.. after the sprint session or after the weight session or a little bit after each? -
Member
I am currently using endurox as a post workout recovery drink. Ive read that a 4-1 carb to protein ratio is ideal in recovery drinks(it also says this on the tub). I believe this particular drink has 50g-13g carb-protein. My question is: Would it make my reovcery drink less effective if I upset the 4-1 carb to protein ratio by adding more protein? For example 50g-50g of carb-protein?
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Participant
i heard that a 2-1 ratio was optimal and thats what i use. i dont know all the details but it that ratio is perfect for getting muscle glycogen levels back up and has enough protein but not too much to replace the lost amino acids.
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