Posted In: Strength & Conditioning
i am wondering could any of you guys explain CF training Philosophy, i have the gpp dvd and it shows:
mon:
pc
bsq
bp
lat pd front
rdl
mil press
seated rows
wed:
pc
incline press
deadlifts
push press
lat pull back
seated rows
fri:
pc
bsq
bp
lat pd front
rdl
mil press
seated rows
just curious would it be safe to use bb circuits on tue/thur, and share any experiences you guys may have it with his strength training methods.
i think the setup isn't bad but it has little variation
well the reason he doesn't have more days of strength training is because of overtaxing the CNS between high intensity strength work and high intensity running. the strength training is a means to an end, it's not the end itself.
i wouldn't recommend much more work than what he prescribes.
I'm talking about the bodybuilding circuits that mike and lsu etc use for recovery. also how would u regulate the vol for a setup like that. why nothing something like this:
mon:
pc
bsq
bp
wed:
ps
fsq
incline
fri:
pc
bsq
bp
just a lil variation
yes i agree i think thats better setup
partly b/c the body building circuits were designed around Mike's LSU training regimes, not CF's.
i understand that mike and lsu use the circuits with there setup but im curious could you use them with cf setup?
You COULD use them with anything, but it doesnt seem to be ideal. I will also say that I think the exercise selection in CF's program is a bit away from what I'd do. Too much sitting down for my liking.
You COULD use them with anything, but it doesnt seem to be ideal. I will also say that I think the exercise selection in CF's program is a bit away from what I'd do. Too much sitting down for my liking.
why the circuits wouldnt be ideal with cf if u drop the aux work on m-w-f, it would be just like the setup that mike and lsu use (ol,sq,press). cf is only doing lat pd and seated row everything else he is standing
this is a older post from Mike, no major difference from cf setup – so why the circuits cant be use esp if u cut back the tempo vol.
Day 1:
-Power Clean: 7-10 x 3
-Back Squat: 6-8 x 5
-Bench Press: 5 x 8-10
-DB Rows: 5 x 8-10
-RDL: 3 x 8
Day 2:
One of the weight room circuits discussed in the above mentioned thread.
Day 3:
-Hang Clean or Snatch: 5-6 x 4
-Overhead Squat: 2 x 8
-Front Squat: 5 x 6
-Incline or Military Press: 5 x 8-10
-Pullups: 5 x 8-10
-Weighted Glute-Ham Raises or Good Mornings: 3 x 10
I agree with you on that it is similar. It is still too much sitting for me. Why not do pullups of different varieties? I like mike's better for that factor. It is essential to learn to load ones own body whenever possible.
I agree with you on that it is similar. It is still too much sitting for me. Why not do pullups of different varieties? I like mike's better for that factor. It is essential to learn to load ones own body whenever possible.
well i was showing mike setup bc ur guys say that the bb circuits cant be done with cf setup, mike and cf setup is very similar.
[quote author="wsgeneral" date="1151808819"]
I agree with you on that it is similar. It is still too much sitting for me. Why not do pullups of different varieties? I like mike's better for that factor. It is essential to learn to load ones own body whenever possible.
well i was showing mike setup bc ur guys say that the bb circuits cant be done with cf setup, mike and cf setup is very similar.
[/quote]
I didnt say cant, I just though they would be a bit superfluous for such large volumes in the weightroom the previous day.
Too much sitting? …
Pull-ups are nice, but rather easy after you can bust out 20+ with perfect form. Weighted pull-ups are extremely hard on the shoulders. Lat-pull down allows for more loading and a much safer position.
In my experience, weighted pulls are no harder on the shoulder than regular pullups or Olympic Lifts provided one does not rush into loading these lifts too fast. If one were to use a neutral grip for pulls, pressure on shoulder and elbow are reduced as well. Also, in CF's template above, he advocates a behind the neck pull. Now I have no evidence of this other than from numerous reputable strength coaches, but that is extremely hard on the shoulder.
[quote author="davan" date="1151814724"]
Too much sitting? …
Pull-ups are nice, but rather easy after you can bust out 20+ with perfect form. Weighted pull-ups are extremely hard on the shoulders. Lat-pull down allows for more loading and a much safer position.
In my experience, weighted pulls are no harder on the shoulder than regular pullups or Olympic Lifts provided one does not rush into loading these lifts too fast. If one were to use a neutral grip for pulls, pressure on shoulder and elbow are reduced as well. Also, in CF's template above, he advocates a behind the neck pull. Now I have no evidence of this other than from numerous reputable strength coaches, but that is extremely hard on the shoulder.
[/quote]
i think cf did behind neck pd when training ben that was years ago, shit i even them in hs but i get ur point
Actually, CF has said he wouldn't do behind the neck pulling if he were to do it today. From talking to a couple high class (one of whom has coached multiple top 10 in the world sprint swimmers) swim coaches, weighted pull-ups are definitely tougher on the shoulders and should be avoided as a purely strength exercise (like one would use lat pulldowns for example). How much weight are you using, wsgeneral? I've done sets (usually 5-10 reps) with 45-65lbs and it was definitely tough on my shoulders. The thing was, it wasn't even max effort. I always left at least 2 reps in me on these and I still felt it in my shoulders (similar to even I was doing full dips with weight) to the point where I didn't feel comfortable increasing the weight further. While it wasn't too difficult on the muscular system, the weight felt exponentially tough on my shoulders (25lbs wasn't bad at all, 45lbs started to feel it, 65lbs it began to be an issue, etc.).
Actually, CF has said he wouldn't do behind the neck pulling if he were to do it today. From talking to a couple high class (one of whom has coached multiple top 10 in the world sprint swimmers) swim coaches, weighted pull-ups are definitely tougher on the shoulders and should be avoided as a purely strength exercise (like one would use lat pulldowns for example). How much weight are you using, wsgeneral? I've done sets (usually 5-10 reps) with 45-65lbs and it was definitely tough on my shoulders. The thing was, it wasn't even max effort. I always left at least 2 reps in me on these and I still felt it in my shoulders (similar to even I was doing full dips with weight) to the point where I didn't feel comfortable increasing the weight further. While it wasn't too difficult on the muscular system, the weight felt exponentially tough on my shoulders (25lbs wasn't bad at all, 45lbs started to feel it, 65lbs it began to be an issue, etc.).
In swimmers and other overhead athletes it makes more sense as their sport places a lot of stress on the rotator cuff, but for track athletes, it shouldnt really be a HUGE concern. When do you train lat pulls or pulls for max strength? I consider pushes and pulls more auxiliary work for track athetes–yes I do go heavy and low at times, but if I am really after difficult pulls, I go single arm. I use about the same range as you for weighted pulls. I've gone as high as 85 for sets of three, and had no discomfort at all as well as 25lb for single arm pulls, but I've been doing pullups for a long time and started with jumpstretch assisted pullups which could have had a prehabilitative effect.
[quote author="davan" date="1151864211"]
Actually, CF has said he wouldn't do behind the neck pulling if he were to do it today. From talking to a couple high class (one of whom has coached multiple top 10 in the world sprint swimmers) swim coaches, weighted pull-ups are definitely tougher on the shoulders and should be avoided as a purely strength exercise (like one would use lat pulldowns for example). How much weight are you using, wsgeneral? I've done sets (usually 5-10 reps) with 45-65lbs and it was definitely tough on my shoulders. The thing was, it wasn't even max effort. I always left at least 2 reps in me on these and I still felt it in my shoulders (similar to even I was doing full dips with weight) to the point where I didn't feel comfortable increasing the weight further. While it wasn't too difficult on the muscular system, the weight felt exponentially tough on my shoulders (25lbs wasn't bad at all, 45lbs started to feel it, 65lbs it began to be an issue, etc.).
In swimmers and other overhead athletes it makes more sense as their sport places a lot of stress on the rotator cuff, but for track athletes, it shouldnt really be a HUGE concern. When do you train lat pulls or pulls for max strength? I consider pushes and pulls more auxiliary work for track athetes–yes I do go heavy and low at times, but if I am really after difficult pulls, I go single arm. I use about the same range as you for weighted pulls. I've gone as high as 85 for sets of three, and had no discomfort at all as well as 25lb for single arm pulls, but I've been doing pullups for a long time and started with jumpstretch assisted pullups which could have had a prehabilitative effect.
[/quote]
too much thinking keep KISS
I don't treat pulls much different than my pushes (including bench press), so yes, I do go heavy and I feel much more comfortable using lat pull down or DB rows and the like. Again, great for you if it's no problem but I don't see the point in risking it, especially when multiple high level coaches have recommended against it and I have observed the problems myself when weighing movements like pull-ups and dips beyond what can be done for 10+ reps.
I agree with UT, keep it simple.
i try not to add weight to bodyweight drills pushup, pullup, dips
too much thinking keep KISS
Whats more simple than a hanging bar? Ya'll are thinking just as much as I am about this. Everyone knows that when working with sports that have a high rotator cuff stress, care should be taken, and that sprinting does not put a large demand on rotator cuff action.
i try not to add weight to bodyweight drills pushup, pullup, dips
Why? Do you change the lever arm to make it more difficult?
[quote author="utfootball4" date="1151872584"]
too much thinking keep KISS
Whats more simple than a hanging bar? Ya'll are thinking just as much as I am about this. Everyone knows that when working with sports that have a high rotator cuff stress, care should be taken, and that sprinting does not put a large demand on rotator cuff action.
[/quote]
i understand that sprinting dont put a large demand on the cuff but if you injure that cuff you will miss training time and miss training time = < performance. i agree with davan and would rather use lat pd front/underhand/standing db rows etc/h pullup circuit from time to time. by the way we are lil off topic – i think. lol
