and how should RDL’s be integrated into the workout? In place of regular DL’s or alognside them?
Correct romanian deadlift form?
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Participant
Generally, that looks like about correct form. I like to push the hips through a little more at top of lift. I also find that most people will exhibit at least some flattening or rounding of the lower spine as weight increases. Try and keep that to a minimum.
Most here do not do a lot of deadlifting and would use RDL’s of various types as a lower body assistance lift – and generally after OL’s and Squat variants in the workout. I typically make them the end of the workout – with relatively low total reps and not going heavier than what I can manage with a somewhat lorditic spine position.
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Participant
Also probably a good idea not to do these the day prior to a running session just in case. I used to do them directly after, so long as my hamstrings felt alright.
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Participant
Also probably a good idea not to do these the day prior to a running session just in case. I used to do them directly after, so long as my hamstrings felt alright.
Craig I’ve been doing good mornings, nordics, dragons (similar to rdl but on one straight leg with med ball) and an eccentric resistance on a leg curl machine the day before runnign sessions and had no problems (not all those exercises usually 3 per lifting session). Had a lot of trouble with my hamstrings the past year but the eccentric strengthenign exercises really seem to be helping
ps how come you dont post a log on here anymore?
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Participant
Generally, that looks like about correct form. I like to push the hips through a little more at top of lift. I also find that most people will exhibit at least some flattening or rounding of the lower spine as weight increases. Try and keep that to a minimum.
Most here do not do a lot of deadlifting and would use RDL’s of various types as a lower body assistance lift – and generally after OL’s and Squat variants in the workout. I typically make them the end of the workout – with relatively low total reps and not going heavier than what I can manage with a somewhat lorditic spine position.
ahh ok, yeh i really don’t like deadlifting. i think i round my back too much and it seems to me to be so much harder to deadlift than to squat which shouldnt be the case. I think i work my back too much when i do them and not enough glute or hamstring development, so these seem like a much better exercise
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Participant
Offseason/gpp: regular deadlifts
Early gpp: rdl’s
Early spp: Srdl’s
Mid spp-comp: hypers/pull thrus etcTake note of the loading patterns.
Deadlifts: Very heavy
Rdl: Heavy
Srdl: Mod
Hypers: Light -
Participant
[quote author="Craig Pickering" date="1319923756"]Also probably a good idea not to do these the day prior to a running session just in case. I used to do them directly after, so long as my hamstrings felt alright.
Craig I’ve been doing good mornings, nordics, dragons (similar to rdl but on one straight leg with med ball) and an eccentric resistance on a leg curl machine the day before runnign sessions and had no problems (not all those exercises usually 3 per lifting session). Had a lot of trouble with my hamstrings the past year but the eccentric strengthenign exercises really seem to be helping
ps how come you dont post a log on here anymore?[/quote]
Proves me wring then! I try to avoid any specific hamstring work the day before running, as I find it just gives me a bit of residual soreness the next day.
I dont post a log anymore because I got too many people telling me what I was doing was wrong. It also stressed me out as I felt I had to justify to everyone why I was having bad sessions!
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Participant
Will probably just be specific to certain people, I do have soreness but not enpugh to affect me when running, though at the moment i’m just doign tempo nothing particularly fast
ahh right, that’s a shame because I really enjoyed reading your log and picked up a few sessions off it haha
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Participant
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Participant
I have experimented with training hi int 5-6 days in a row. I’ve had better results so far doing this and I never have that cns smashed feeling. The weekly load is the same but spread across many days as opposed to 3 hi days as normal. I have also been doing pulls, including rdl or gm the day before sprints. No problems except one day where I added ghr and that caused some fatigue, soreness and tightness.
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Participant
I always feel that Bolt/Blake/Tyson are always growing and trying to understand new ideas and methods of training.
Can you explain this? Do you talk to them? I noticed that you added Blake to the discussion now…is this so that in your mind you can justify your cheetah training? Because somewhere those three are watching tapes of Cheetahs and devising top secret animal training?
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Participant
Offseason/gpp: regular deadlifts
Early gpp: rdl’s
Early spp: Srdl’s
Mid spp-comp: hypers/pull thrus etcTake note of the loading patterns.
Deadlifts: Very heavy
Rdl: Heavy
Srdl: Mod
Hypers: LightI never understood this kind of method. So you get strong in a cirtain lift, then you lose that strength in the next phase making it a waste of time. If somethings worth doing, its worth doing all the time.
Clean, squat, bench all year round. Everything else is just a waste of energy.
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Participant
How so – very similar to doing hills in gpp and moving away towards spp and comp..??
[quote author="utfootball4" date="1319935690"]Offseason/gpp: regular deadlifts
Early gpp: rdl’s
Early spp: Srdl’s
Mid spp-comp: hypers/pull thrus etcTake note of the loading patterns.
Deadlifts: Very heavy
Rdl: Heavy
Srdl: Mod
Hypers: LightI never understood this kind of method. So you get strong in a cirtain lift, then you lose that strength in the next phase making it a waste of time. If somethings worth doing, its worth doing all the time.
Clean, squat, bench all year round. Everything else is just a waste of energy.[/quote]
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Participant
Thats more like going from cleans to hang cleans, both similar things. Starting off with heavy deads in say October leading to hypers in the summer. You might as well have not done any deads at all.
Im more talking about the gym specifically where we try to gain power. Ive found keeping it very simple worked best.
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Participant
Thats more like going from cleans to hang cleans, both similar things. Starting off with heavy deads in say October leading to hypers in the summer. You might as well have not done any deads at all.
Im more talking about the gym specifically where we try to gain power. Ive found keeping it very simple worked best.
Starting with deadlifts in the offseason = for most of us June-August. You have to factor in the stress on the track in the later phases – runs in 60-200m range.
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Participant
I do some sort of RDL throughout most of the year and tend to keep the weight fairly high. I find it at least as beneficial as the squat for track given then strain that the hamstrings and glutes go through.
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Participant
[quote author="joe" date="1319947615"]Thats more like going from cleans to hang cleans, both similar things. Starting off with heavy deads in say October leading to hypers in the summer. You might as well have not done any deads at all.
Im more talking about the gym specifically where we try to gain power. Ive found keeping it very simple worked best.
Starting with deadlifts in the offseason = for most of us June-August. You have to factor in the stress on the track in the later phases – runs in 60-200m range.[/quote]
This is exactly the case, track work becomes more intense and this is the main reason why there is less emphasis on weights. I think there is no problem to include heavy weights during late SPP and Comp phase if total volume and frequency is low? However, in my opinion fast/powerful and strong sprinters should be more careful with heavy weights during those periods b/c they create more CNS fatigue generally speaking so better leave those resources for track.
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Participant
Linas, i can see how lifting heavy squats and deadlifts can cause too much CNS fatigue in season where everything is quality work. But everyone knows by now Jonathan Edwards lifted max on cleans, snatch and bench in season. Ben Johnson was still doing heavy 5’s on box squats.
Last year i tried doing cleans 80%x3 and squats 70%x3 and this maintained my maxes when i tested. I was doing a lot of speed work back then which wasnt affected. These weight sessions were very easy for me, considering i did near max cleans and 90%+ for reps on the squats before this.
I think too many athletes build their strength and let it go too easily in fear of burning out. If the best weightlifters in the world can lift max 14x a week and still improve, why are we scared to train harder?
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Participant
Nice program design discussion and I was just asking myself the same question recently. I don’t have answers but coaches need to talk more about sequence of lifts and why. Kind of ties into Carl’s upper body blog.
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Participant
I’m struggling to fit cleans into my lifting sessions at the moment as i’m focusing on strength endurance and a bit of hypertrophy. i’m also doing a lot of hamstrign exercises due to the amount of tears i’ve had in them the past year due to piss weak eccentric strength
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Participant
Linas, i can see how lifting heavy squats and deadlifts can cause too much CNS fatigue in season where everything is quality work. But everyone knows by now Jonathan Edwards lifted max on cleans, snatch and bench in season. Ben Johnson was still doing heavy 5’s on box squats.
Last year i tried doing cleans 80%x3 and squats 70%x3 and this maintained my maxes when i tested. I was doing a lot of speed work back then which wasnt affected. These weight sessions were very easy for me, considering i did near max cleans and 90%+ for reps on the squats before this.
I think too many athletes build their strength and let it go too easily in fear of burning out. If the best weightlifters in the world can lift max 14x a week and still improve, why are we scared to train harder?
Joe, I think most of athletes are not scared to work harder and there are many cases when many get overtrained, injuried and it’s nothing new. I think many motivated athletes would agree to work much harder if they knew that results would be better.
Edward’s example shows that he was able to balance between track work and weights. We need to look at his overal program, total volume on the track and weights. He lifted max cleans, snatch and bench but how frequent these workouts were during season and what was the total volume of his max lifts? Generally, cleans create less CNS fatique compared with heavy deadlifts or heavy squats b/c of lower weight. Snatch and bench even less. But this is just small details and what worked for Edwards doesn’t mean it would work for Joe.
Many bring Ben as an example of how heavy he squated during the season. Charlie told that for Ben it wasn’t very heavy and might be less than 90% of his max even those 600 pounds. Charlie didn’t see the point going heavier but if needed Ben could go heavier. Bench press for Ben was used more for CNS stimulation when needed before important race while saving legs.
If looking at a whole macrocycle then a high level sprinter might seek strength increases by 6-8% during the first part of praparation, than 2-3% during SPP and 1% or 0% during Comp phase. Even if strength levels would go down by 1% during Comp phase I don’t think it’s a disaster for a sprinter.
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Participant
1 or 2% isnt much. But i see a lot worse here. I read through Nicks log and he is at times down 15% and a lot of people train like this. It is easy to keep within 95% of max at all times.
I also find full squats to be easy on the CNS and it hardly tires me out with the little volume.
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Participant
Offseason/gpp: regular deadlifts
Early gpp: rdl’s
Early spp: Srdl’s
Mid spp-comp: hypers/pull thrus etcTake note of the loading patterns.
Deadlifts: Very heavy
Rdl: Heavy
Srdl: Mod
Hypers: LightUSUALLY, I do RDLs at the end of my workouts, in sets of 8 (for example, 2 x 8). You’re suggesting the load should be heavy for that?
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Participant
I have experimented with training hi int 5-6 days in a row. I’ve had better results so far doing this and I never have that cns smashed feeling. The weekly load is the same but spread across many days as opposed to 3 hi days as normal. I have also been doing pulls, including rdl or gm the day before sprints. No problems except one day where I added ghr and that caused some fatigue, soreness and tightness.
This is different. I understand that you have had better results so far, but WHY did you decide to do this?
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Participant
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnBREGM7pE0[/youtube]
and how should RDL’s be integrated into the workout? In place of regular DL’s or alognside them?
I was always taught to do RDLs with an underhanded grip instead of overhand. Anyone else do it this way? Does it matter? If so, what is the difference b/w the two?
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