For all who use it, what difference did it make in your sprint events
60m
100,200m,400m
thats all
thanks
(I do not use creatine) but was considering it
Creatine and its effects
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But creatine supplementation resulted in significant improvements, reducing the 100m sprint time from 11.68 to 11.59secs
thats one study i found
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Made me feel heavy as shit. Great for powerlifting though. Great “pump”. Taken along with Arginine AKG and Citulline Mallate it works wonders for strength and aesthetics.
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Nothing for track but little strength gain in the gym.
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So Nick, TSB, Mortac – do you not use creatine? Or do you just not think it has an effect on track event?
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I do use it! ha 🙂
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So what makes you say it doesnt work?
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I like creatine and believe in its benefits. One important caveat, I think the benefits are long-term and not something that can be noticed immediately, like caffeine or a pH buffer. I think the main benefit is in work capacity, and while my personal opinion is that it would benefit a 400m sprinter more so than a shorter sprinter, I have no studies or observations to back it up. There are studies that indicate that sprint performance improves over time when using creatine…
https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/mksg/sms/2001/00000011/00000002/art00005
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I have used it over the years, but am currently not. My feeling is it makes little difference.
That said – I felt it had a huge impact back in school when I first started using it – but think that was more due to the fact that I’d just started weight training, and was making huge improvements regardless of supplements.
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It’s in my protein/ bcaa shake so i can’t really stop using it. I’ve used it for ages. Sometimes i’ve used it in isolation and i’ve just never really felt or noticed anything different and i’m in very good touch with my body. I can usually notice the most tiny change…
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Only difference I’ve SOMEtimes noticed, is a very tiny edge in the gym. The edge could be coincidental anyway though… such as 1 extra rep when benching.
I’ve used diff. types of creatine mono, purple k, kre alkalyne powder, a mixture of a few types of creatine, and results have been… …. lol.
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I dont notice a difference, but the evidence is conclusive, so I take it!
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Short of anabolics, few people would notice anything that is a long-term type supplement. You jwouldn’t notice much if you included protein shakes either, but they have been shown to work longterm. It doesn’t work for everyone, even the studies show that, but the vast majority of well done studies do show a measureable improvement. Very few over the counter supplements have independent studies that show a difference between the supplement and the placebo as clearly as creatine, but I bet the list of OTC supplements taken by the posters in this thread would fill a page.
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Short of anabolics, few people would notice anything that is a long-term type supplement. You jwouldn’t notice much if you included protein shakes either, but they have been shown to work longterm. It doesn’t work for everyone, even the studies show that, but the vast majority of well done studies do show a measureable improvement. Very few over the counter supplements have independent studies that show a difference between the supplement and the placebo as clearly as creatine, but I bet the list of OTC supplements taken by the posters in this thread would fill a page.
You’re right in that creatine works, but its benefit for sprinters is just quite minor. The water retention and tightness usually outweighs gains in strength and such. I use creatine from time to time, but I have simply not found it to be that great of a supplement. Beta alanine seems to have a much greater positive effect for sprinters and athletes in general.
I don’t think it is appropriate to compare protein powder to creatine–which is essentially just acting in place of foods that do the exact same thing (B/S chicken breasts, tuna, egg whites, etc.) at a much cheaper price and is much more convenient. The same could be said about MVM supplements, fish oil, etc.
Things I would supplement with for sprinting before creatine:
-Caffeine
-Yohimbine
-Piracetam
-Beta alanine
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i got the impression yohimbine would be ioc illegal? If its not then that would be nice because i really wanted to try it lol. I use all the other supps there except Piracetam. I’m not really sure what it would do but seems its related to GABA, so does it have anything to do with HGH levels or nootrophic effects?
Regarding creatine, like most people say, i dont really notice much of an effect, although i swear it used to be really good when i used to use it when i was like 16 for some reason.
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On paper, creatine should be awesome for 100m sprinters. It would do something like extend your ATP stores from 6.5 to 7.5 seconds. In reality it seems to do little except cause some water retention and anecdotal incidences of cramping and muscle pulls. Of course all “studies” disprove any type of negative effect. If you’re going to take it, I’d go with a very low dose (1-2g/day).
BCAAs were mentioned here. I think BCAAs are very good. They seem to noticeably delay fatigue (over the course of a session or comp) for me and a few of my athletes that have taken it.
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For me so far, BCAA’s, Glutemine and Whey work very well for recovery. Everything i’ve tried doesn’t seem noticable at all.
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i got the impression yohimbine would be ioc illegal? If its not then that would be nice because i really wanted to try it lol. I use all the other supps there except Piracetam. I’m not really sure what it would do but seems its related to GABA, so does it have anything to do with HGH levels or nootrophic effects?
Regarding creatine, like most people say, i dont really notice much of an effect, although i swear it used to be really good when i used to use it when i was like 16 for some reason.
Why would it be illegal? Neither yohimbine nor any directly related chemical structures are banned.
High dose piracetam combined with even mild stimulant dosages (even like a cup of tea or coffee alone) gives me a much stronger/cleaner stimulatory sort of effect. There is some very early literature on some potential mechanisms, but nothing to hang your hat on. It has worked for me and some others I know, but it is by no means a miracle and isn’t going to account for much improvement on its own.
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Caffeine (have it)
-Yohimbine (i gotta check)
-Piracetam (just ordered 500 grams)
-Beta alanine (i have it, havent been taking it)
-Tyrosine (nope) -
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[quote author="star61" date="1271127334"]Short of anabolics, few people would notice anything that is a long-term type supplement. You jwouldn’t notice much if you included protein shakes either, but they have been shown to work longterm. It doesn’t work for everyone, even the studies show that, but the vast majority of well done studies do show a measureable improvement. Very few over the counter supplements have independent studies that show a difference between the supplement and the placebo as clearly as creatine, but I bet the list of OTC supplements taken by the posters in this thread would fill a page.
You’re right in that creatine works, but its benefit for sprinters is just quite minor. The water retention and tightness usually outweighs gains in strength and such. I use creatine from time to time, but I have simply not found it to be that great of a supplement. Beta alanine seems to have a much greater positive effect for sprinters and athletes in general.
I don’t think it is appropriate to compare protein powder to creatine–which is essentially just acting in place of foods that do the exact same thing (B/S chicken breasts, tuna, egg whites, etc.) at a much cheaper price and is much more convenient. The same could be said about MVM supplements, fish oil, etc.
Things I would supplement with for sprinting before creatine:
-Caffeine
-Yohimbine
-Piracetam
-Beta alanine
-Tyrosine[/quote]Anyone else get drowsy from using Piracetam?
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[quote author="star61" date="1271127334"]Short of anabolics, few people would notice anything that is a long-term type supplement. You jwouldn’t notice much if you included protein shakes either, but they have been shown to work longterm. It doesn’t work for everyone, even the studies show that, but the vast majority of well done studies do show a measureable improvement. Very few over the counter supplements have independent studies that show a difference between the supplement and the placebo as clearly as creatine, but I bet the list of OTC supplements taken by the posters in this thread would fill a page.
You’re right in that creatine works, but its benefit for sprinters is just quite minor. The water retention and tightness usually outweighs gains in strength and such. I use creatine from time to time, but I have simply not found it to be that great of a supplement. Beta alanine seems to have a much greater positive effect for sprinters and athletes in general.
I don’t think it is appropriate to compare protein powder to creatine–which is essentially just acting in place of foods that do the exact same thing (B/S chicken breasts, tuna, egg whites, etc.) at a much cheaper price and is much more convenient. The same could be said about MVM supplements, fish oil, etc.
Things I would supplement with for sprinting before creatine:
-Caffeine
-Yohimbine
-Piracetam
-Beta alanine
-Tyrosine[/quote]Did you find you got water retention? I find no difference in weight on or off creatine. Same with muscle tightness.
With tyrosine, I find I get nothing from it at all!
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Speedfreak- I find if I take tyrosine with green tea or caffeine tab or any other sort of stim it seems to give me a sort of clearer focus. What dose do you take it at? Before races I have gone pretty hgih with it around 4 grams sometimes more
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You’re right in that creatine works, but its benefit for sprinters is just quite minor. The water retention and tightness usually outweighs gains in strength and such. I use creatine from time to time, but I have simply not found it to be that great of a supplement. Beta alanine seems to have a much greater positive effect for sprinters and athletes in general.
Seems to have…this could easily be attributed to placebo effect. Look at all the supplements out there. Very, very few have ever been shown to have a positive impact in independent studies. Protein, creatine and caffeine certainly have, but I’m not aware of any other supplement that has been shown to positively effect sprint performance in anything other than “a minor way”.
I don’t think it is appropriate to compare protein powder to creatine–which is essentially just acting in place of foods that do the exact same thing (B/S chicken breasts, tuna, egg whites, etc.) at a much cheaper price and is much more convenient. The same could be said about MVM supplements, fish oil, etc.
Things I would supplement with for sprinting before creatine:
-Caffeine
-Yohimbine
-Piracetam
-Beta alanine
-TyrosineIf everyone constructed such a list, there would be literaly dozens of supplements listed. Almost none would have ever beer proven effective during a controlled, unbiased investigation. Protein supplements and creatine have consistently shown to beneficial in improving lean body mass. Others, like caffeine, ECA (illegal), HMB and others seem to have positive short-term benefits. But how someone “feels” or what someone “thinks” shouldn’t be the basis for taking a supplement. If it can’t be shown to work in a well designed study, it probably doesn’t. If it does prove to work in a well designed, independent study, it may work for many people…but not necessarily everyone. But just because it doesn’t seem to work for you doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for others. Creatine has probably been tested 10 times more than all the supplements you’ve listed (with the exeption of caffeine) and generally yields positive results.
As far as protein, I was not saying you must take a shake or powder, just adequte protein, preferably whey, egg or animal protein. But shakes are a great way to add protein without the hassle of cooking five to six meals a day.
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Speedfreak- I find if I take tyrosine with green tea or caffeine tab or any other sort of stim it seems to give me a sort of clearer focus. What dose do you take it at? Before races I have gone pretty hgih with it around 4 grams sometimes more
Ive taken 2-3g, and felt no different. I think the main point, with all supplements, is that you probably wont feel a difference with the vast majority of them. The only supplement I have ever felt had an effect on me is caffeine – you can actually feel the difference within an hour. I take creatine, beta alanine, HMB, glutamine, protein, etc etc., and when I take them, I feel no different. But why would I? You might only get 0.1% improvement from each, if that, which is an amount that you couldnt measure on feel alone. You could measure it on results on the track, but then again, how variable are sprint performances anyway?
To me, if a product is said to work in scientific literature, I will probably take it. Science rarely lies.
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Seems to have…this could easily be attributed to placebo effect. Look at all the supplements out there. Very, very few have ever been shown to have a positive impact in independent studies. Protein, creatine and caffeine certainly have, but I’m not aware of any other supplement that has been shown to positively effect sprint performance in anything other than “a minor way”.
There are plenty of studies backing beta alanine use and anecdotal reports corroborate it as well. Most T&F athletes and athletes in general that I know (save BB/PL/WL) prefer beta alanine.
Again, please stop quoting protein as a supplement–it is really just a form of food. Not comparable to caffeine/creatine/beta alanine/etc.
If everyone constructed such a list, there would be literaly dozens of supplements listed. Almost none would have ever beer proven effective during a controlled, unbiased investigation.
The only substance I quoted that doesn’t have extensive literature on ergogenic benefits is piracetam. Might want to actually do your research before you speak out of your ass again.
Protein supplements and creatine have consistently shown to beneficial in improving lean body mass. Others, like caffeine, ECA (illegal), HMB and others seem to have positive short-term benefits. But how someone “feels” or what someone “thinks” shouldn’t be the basis for taking a supplement. If it can’t be shown to work in a well designed study, it probably doesn’t. If it does prove to work in a well designed, independent study, it may work for many people…but not necessarily everyone. But just because it doesn’t seem to work for you doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for others. Creatine has probably been tested 10 times more than all the supplements you’ve listed (with the exeption of caffeine) and generally yields positive results.
Dude you read the stupid stuff your fingers type? Go back and read the posts leading up to your incredibly tangent post.
As far as protein, I was not saying you must take a shake or powder, just adequte protein, preferably whey, egg or animal protein. But shakes are a great way to add protein without the hassle of cooking five to six meals a day.
No shit, however, that isn’t supplementation in the way being discussed. You are simply using food in powder form (almost no difference in form from something like powdered milk) to meet dietary needs. Using food to meet essential dietary requirements =/= supplementing for performance.
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Did you find you got water retention? I find no difference in weight on or off creatine. Same with muscle tightness.
With tyrosine, I find I get nothing from it at all!
I definitely get some water retention from creatine. The magical ‘first time’ using creatine I gained a substantial amount of water weight. When I use it now, I do gain some water weight. I do like to use it after very intense sessions to help bring fluid into the muscles and I use it in the GPP to assist with hypertrophy/strength while not being as concerned with tightness issues (little top speed work). I am moving away from ths though.
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Again, please stop quoting protein as a supplement–it is really just a form of food. Not comparable to caffeine/creatine/beta alanine/etc.
A supplement is anything you consume to “supplement” your diet. Can you not get any of the “supplements” you speak of from food? How about caffeine? How about Tyrosine? You are such a total hippocrite.
The only substance I quoted that doesn’t have extensive literature on ergogenic benefits is piracetam. Might want to actually do your research before you speak out of your ass again.
Again, getting personal and vulgar. You are susch a prick. I would love to spend 5 minutes with your scrawny, tiny ass, although I wouldn’t need that much time. But I digress. Please show me independent, unbiased studies on any of these substances, besides caffeiene, that has shown to consistently improve sprint performance more so than creatine. Not company financed studies, independent studies.
No shit, however, that isn’t supplementation in the way being discussed. You are simply using food in powder form (almost no difference in form from something like powdered milk) to meet dietary needs. Using food to meet essential dietary requirements =/= supplementing for performance.
The way its being discussed? So you are once again dictating the parameters of the discussion? I’m using the word supplement the way 99% of the athletic world uses it, and almost everyone includes protein as a supplement. Is waxy maize a supplment? Are carb drinks. Is caffiene? Besides being a hippocrite, you’re a self-important little prick. Please, please let me know if you’re ever in the Dallas area…I would love to get together to, uh, train.
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[quote author="Ash Fletcher" date="1271197860"]Speedfreak- I find if I take tyrosine with green tea or caffeine tab or any other sort of stim it seems to give me a sort of clearer focus. What dose do you take it at? Before races I have gone pretty hgih with it around 4 grams sometimes more
Ive taken 2-3g, and felt no different. I think the main point, with all supplements, is that you probably wont feel a difference with the vast majority of them. The only supplement I have ever felt had an effect on me is caffeine – you can actually feel the difference within an hour. I take creatine, beta alanine, HMB, glutamine, protein, etc etc., and when I take them, I feel no different. But why would I? You might only get 0.1% improvement from each, if that, which is an amount that you couldnt measure on feel alone. You could measure it on results on the track, but then again, how variable are sprint performances anyway?
To me, if a product is said to work in scientific literature, I will probably take it. Science rarely lies.[/quote]
This is me 100%. I’ve taken all the common supplements, and a bunch of others, and the only thing that works for me is caffeine.
Everything else, I dont feel or notice a difference one bit!
Only one exception, and that’s beta alanine. But it doesnt give me any good effects, it’s just the tingling I feel! lol. -
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A supplement is anything you consume to “supplement” your diet. Can you not get any of the “supplements” you speak of from food? How about caffeine? How about Tyrosine? You are such a total hippocrite.
At least know how to spell hypocrite and what one is before calling me one.
Protein powder is food. Tyrosine and caffeine cannot be obtained in the amounts discussed outside of supplementation. Try again.
Again, getting personal and vulgar. You are susch a prick. I would love to spend 5 minutes with your scrawny, tiny ass, although I wouldn’t need that much time. But I digress. Please show me independent, unbiased studies on any of these substances, besides caffeiene, that has shown to consistently improve sprint performance more so than creatine. Not company financed studies, independent studies.
Do your own research, lazy ass. And I said overall performance. There isn’t a single study showing any substance to benefit well trained, moderate level (say, athletes that have trained for at least 4 years with PRs <11.0) 100m athletes. I acknowledged creatine works for some and in studies it works, but most people who sprint don't find it to really pan out as well as it does in studies and doesn't seem to be as beneficial as many other supplements. The ones I listed are ones I personally find useful for sprinting, have data to back them up (minus piracetam), and seems to hold true for people I know as well–you're making strawman arguments to advocate for creatine use when that wasn't my point.
Re: supplements–Tyrosine is found to have synergistic stimulatory-related effects when combined with caffeine in the literature, yohimbine itself is a very strong stimulant and is an unusually strong substance in assisting with fat loss (studies using trained and elite athletes prove this over and over), and beta alanine has countless studies showing improvements in muscular endurance and RSA. There is plenty of data on these points. Whether or not any of it improves 100m performance or athletic performance specifically can be debated, but creatine is not the only substance with literature backing it and, clearly, many people have used it to find no benefit or improvement in their times and there are very clear scientific-based reasons for why this could occur.
]The way its being discussed? So you are once again dictating the parameters of the discussion? I'm using the word supplement the way 99% of the athletic world uses it, and almost everyone includes protein as a supplement. Is waxy maize a supplment? Are carb drinks. Is caffiene? Besides being a hippocrite, you're a self-important little prick. Please, please let me know if you're ever in the Dallas area…I would love to get together to, uh, train.
lawl so protein powder is acting as an ergogenic aid… a performance enhancer… yep, believe that, Star.
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ParticipantCreatine works but not “right before races”. Those taking it before a race will be sad because it’s not a performance enhancing supplement but more of a GPP support product. You can use it post competition and in flight and I have seen no weight (water) issues with low dose protocols with micronized products for many but not everyone will respond well. If it helps do 2 more runs per week over 16 weeks that could be the difference between learning a quality in sprinting and not sprinting. Not taking creatine in the fall of a classic program seems to be a waste as the research shows to work in circumstances of repeat bouts of work.
Stimulants before races (legal) are the best options for those looking for not only ergogenic assistance but I would argue they act as safety measures.
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Davan,
As usual you can’t post a study to support your BS opinions. As usual you make sarcastic remarks to hide your stuborn ignorance. Post a study and save the BS.
As far as protein, the only thing I said was that supplementing with protein has shown to improve athletic performance. It does. There are dozens of studies to prove it. Protein and creatinge are two supplements that enjoy almost universal agreement in terms of scientific opinion. But of course all nutrionists, sports scientists and the majority of all athletes should all rethink that because Davan doesn’t like to call protein a supplement and creatine didn’t make him stronger or faster. You are still small and weak.
You are a joke. It will always be this way. Deal with it.
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Creatine works but not “right before races”. Those taking it before a race will be sad because it’s not a performance enhancing supplement but more of a GPP support product. You can use it post competition and in flight and I have seen no weight (water) issues with low dose protocols with micronized products for many but not everyone will respond well. If it helps do 2 more runs per week over 16 weeks that could be the difference between learning a quality in sprinting and not sprinting. Not taking creatine in the fall of a classic program seems to be a waste as the research shows to work in circumstances of repeat bouts of work.
Stimulants before races (legal) are the best options for those looking for not only ergogenic assistance but I would argue they act as safety measures.
For a non-tested athlete, does this remove a product like “jack3d” before a speed/power event – for example before a combine type workout? Jack3d contains about 4.5grams of creatine per 3 scoops.
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Star:
Post a study showing that steroids make people faster or jump further.
You’ve got to be kidding, right? And again with the strawman crap. You said there were studies…post one. I posted two that took me 3 minutes to find. Post one that supports your opinions.
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I tried beta alanine, but can’t say something positive. I think taking small amounts of creatine during GPP is worth trying like Carl suggests. I see many are focusing on protein intake, especially from animal food. Now my diet is almost 100% plant based and mainly raw, of course I don’t use any soy products. I feel great, no need for extra protein, because I eat planty of this food. All essential amino acids I get from this food, for example avocado has all 8 essential amino acids. Animal based diet is more acidic, while plant based alkalizing. Better for digestion and for recovery. By the way Carl Lewis became a vegan during the last years of his sports career.
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I’m with davan on this one. For me creatine causes water retention and thus muscle tightness very easily. I am sure there is an optimal amount of creatine that, when it enters the muscle cells, would increase their levels of phosphocreatine significantly enough. However, since the rate of transportation of creatine through the cell membrane depends on insulin levels, insulin sensitivity and cell permeability at that specific point in time, it’s kind of impossible for me to know how many grams to ingest in order to get that optimal effect. Since most people that do weight training are not concerned with muscle tightness (I think they seek it actually), they just down a big enough dose (10-20g) and whatever gets in, gets in.
With that being said, creatine has a very useful, yet limited, application for athletes – muscle mass preservation during periods of inactivity:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19130643L-Tyrosine is good for training after less sleep than usual:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12887140 -
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[quote author="davan" date="1271225301"]Star:
Post a study showing that steroids make people faster or jump further.
You’ve got to be kidding, right? And again with the strawman crap. You said there were studies…post one. I posted two that took me 3 minutes to find. Post one that supports your opinions.[/quote]
Beta-alanine:
Derave W, Ozdemir MS, Harris R, Pottier A, Reyngoudt H, Koppo K, Wise JA, Achten E. (August 9 2007). “Beta-alanine supplementation augments muscle carnosine content and attenuates fatigue during repeated isokinetic contraction bouts in trained sprinters”. J Appl Physiol 103: 1736Yohimbine:
Ostojic SM. Yohimbine: the effects on body composition and exercise
performance in soccer players. Res Sports Med. 2006 Oct-Dec;14(4):289-99.Tyrosine:
Magill RA, Waters WF, Bray GA, Volaufova J, Smith SR, Lieberman HR, McNevin N,
Ryan DH. Effects of tyrosine, phentermine, caffeine D-amphetamine, and placebo on
cognitive and motor performance deficits during sleep deprivation. Nutr Neurosci.
2003 Aug;6(4):237-46.Belza A, Toubro S, Astrup A. The effect of caffeine, green tea and tyrosine on
thermogenesis and energy intake. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2009 Jan;63(1):57-64. Epub 2007
Sep 19. PubMed PMID: 17882140.Now post those studies.
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Davan cited these references to support the benefits of the supplements he chooses. NONE of the references cited support any performance enhancement effects, and in fact indicate there are none in a couple.
[quote]Beta-alanine:
Derave W, Ozdemir MS, Harris R, Pottier A, Reyngoudt H, Koppo K, Wise JA, Achten E. (August 9 2007). “Beta-alanine supplementation augments muscle carnosine content and attenuates fatigue during repeated isokinetic contraction bouts in trained sprinters”. J Appl Physiol 103: 1736[/quote]From the study…”the increase in muscle carnosine did not improve isometric endurance or 400-m race time.” This study indicates there is no benefit to sprinters in taking beta-alanine. I actually think beta-alanine has potential, but this study does not support that contention.
Yohimbine:
Ostojic SM. Yohimbine: the effects on body composition and exercise
performance in soccer players. Res Sports Med. 2006 Oct-Dec;14(4):289-99.From the study…”There were no changes in exercise performance indicators (bench and leg press, vertical jump, dribble and power test results, shuttle run) within or between. trials (p > 0.05). No subject reported any side effects from yohimbine. The results of the current study indicate that supplementation with yohimbine combined with resistance training does not significantly alter the body mass, muscle mass, or performance indicators in professional soccer players.”
Tyrosine:
Magill RA, Waters WF, Bray GA, Volaufova J, Smith SR, Lieberman HR, McNevin N,
Ryan DH. Effects of tyrosine, phentermine, caffeine D-amphetamine, and placebo on
cognitive and motor performance deficits during sleep deprivation. Nutr Neurosci.
2003 Aug;6(4):237-46.Doesn’t address any athletic performance measures, period. Has absolutely nothing to do with sprint performance. This study does nothing to back up your claim that Tyrosine is a performance enhancer.
Belza A, Toubro S, Astrup A. The effect of caffeine, green tea and tyrosine on
thermogenesis and energy intake. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2009 Jan;63(1):57-64. Epub 2007
Sep 19. PubMed PMID: 17882140.From the study…”The thermogenic responses to GTE and tyrosine were not significantly different from placebo.”[/b][/i][/i] No differences from placebo, meaning no effect…and this was simply about metabolism…doesn’t even begin to address athletic enhancement of any kind, much less sprint performance.
Davan, your already limited credibility suffers greatly with a post like this. You blast me for not reading the studies I post (which I DO and which DO address the issue being discussed and DO show statistically relevent enhancement in not only athletic performance in general, but sprint performance specifically, and then you post this drivel. Not one study you cite supports any athletic enhancement benefits at all from any of these substances, and two actually indicate that there are NO benefits derived from the substances studied. Did YOU read the studies YOU posted in support of YOUR opinions, or did you just not undestand them?
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This study indicates there is no benefit to sprinters in taking beta-alanine. I actually think beta-alanine has potential, but this study does not support that contention.
I specifically said that this is to be used for RSA, which will assist in training and allow for a higher training load/better quality of training load. CF actually discussed this specific issue on his forum. Good try.
Yohimbine:
Ostojic SM. Yohimbine: the effects on body composition and exercise
performance in soccer players. Res Sports Med. 2006 Oct-Dec;14(4):289-99.From the study…”There were no changes in exercise performance indicators (bench and leg press, vertical jump, dribble and power test results, shuttle run) within or between. trials (p > 0.05). No subject reported any side effects from yohimbine. The results of the current study indicate that supplementation with yohimbine combined with resistance training does not significantly alter the body mass, muscle mass, or performance indicators in professional soccer players.”[/quote]
It enhanced fat loss, which is why I advocate its use, not for the other factors–nice strawman though. I did not comment on it as an anabolic and it was used in a short-term project without a large enough sample size to see whether or not the strength:weight improvements would carry over to other events.
Tyrosine:
Magill RA, Waters WF, Bray GA, Volaufova J, Smith SR, Lieberman HR, McNevin N,
Ryan DH. Effects of tyrosine, phentermine, caffeine D-amphetamine, and placebo on
cognitive and motor performance deficits during sleep deprivation. Nutr Neurosci.
2003 Aug;6(4):237-46. Doesn’t address any athletic performance measures, period. Has absolutely nothing to do with sprint performance. This study does nothing to back up your claim that Tyrosine is a performance enhancer.I said it is to be used as a stimulant for stimulant-like effects, the evidence for which is well founded. Not a miracle substance by any means and it must be combined with caffeine IME for optimal effects.
Davan, your already limited credibility suffers greatly with a post like this. You blast me for not reading the studies I post (which I DO and which DO address the issue being discussed and DO show statistically relevent enhancement in not only athletic performance in general, but sprint performance specifically, and then you post this drivel. Not one study you cite supports any athletic enhancement benefits at all from any of these substances, and two actually indicate that there are NO benefits derived from the substances studied. Did YOU read the studies YOU posted in support of YOUR opinions, or did you just not undestand them?
Please go back and read what my posts were. My argument was not that creatine doesn’t work in studies, but that it doesn’t pan out for sprinters and most T&F athletes, which this site focuses around. The studies show that the substances do exactly what I said they do and why they can enhance performance. Note as well I did not say that there were studies on trained 100m sprinters, for which there are none on creatine as well.
And yes, I read the studies and understand them just fine. That is in fact why I cited BA for enhancing RSA or repeated sprint ability (going to be important for training), yohimbine for fatloss and stimulatory effects, and tyrosoine for stimulatory effects. Good try, yet again.
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Participant
The problems with all of these studies are immense:
1. Sample Sizes – To do right, it is really necessary to have a minimum group of 25-50 in both study and control groups.
2. Study Design – To do right – both groups need nearly identical training protocols.
3. Both groups need to have comparable (and competitive) performance numbers.It is difficult to get such a group – you’d almost have to have it be off-season collegiate athletes.
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Participant
Please go back and read what my posts were. My argument was not that creatine doesn’t work in studies, but that it doesn’t pan out for sprinters and most T&F athletes, which this site focuses around. The studies show that the substances do exactly what I said they do and why they can enhance performance. Note as well I did not say that there were studies on trained 100m sprinters, for which there are none on creatine as well.
Again, you redefine the argument when you can’t prove your point. You need to go back and read the entire thread and listen to some of your own advice. You always fall back on “this is a sprint forum”, unless it doesn’t help your pathetic arguments. The original post was about sprint performance. NONE of the studies you posted on the substances you advocate confirm any benefit to a sprinter, because if it doesn’t result in them sprinting faster, it is of no direct use. As far as creatine, there are studies that show that short sprint performance IS enhanced by creatine supplementation. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that if you improve your perforance in the first 30-40m you will most likely improve your performance over 100m. The substances you advocate evidently don’t have a single study indicating that they improve sprint performance at any distance. And how do you know that creatine hasn’t panned out for most sprinters and T&F athletes? Do you have data on these statistics, or are you expecting us to just take that as a fact because that’s your opinion?
And yes, I read the studies and understand them just fine. That is in fact why I cited BA for enhancing RSA or repeated sprint ability (going to be important for training), yohimbine for fatloss and stimulatory effects, and tyrosoine for stimulatory effects. Good try, yet again.
Do they make you perform better in a sprint? NO. That IS the topic of this thread. Has creatine been shown in many studies to improve sprint performance more so than your substances. YES, definitively. Again, you are so stubborn and intellectually dishonest that nothing you post has anything positive to add to the discussion at hand. As usual, you will strawman a thread to death rather than to admit you might be mistaken. I can post dozens of studies, many well run, double-blind with placebo, studies that indicate that creatine improves many performance measures, including sprints and vertical jump, with minimal to no side effects. You can’t post one that demonstrates these kind of results on ANY of your supplements. As usual. Don’t believe the science, just trust Daven’s opinion. Again, you are a joke.
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Participant
You guys have too much time on your hands.
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Participant
So are you taking creatine also during the competition season?
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Participant
Just to repeat indigobreath:
Do any of you people only use creatine in GPP-SPP and stop for the Competition phase or do you take creatine throughout?Based on Carl comments, you shouldn’t take it inseason…
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Member
I can understand Carls statement in relation to not been beneficial on competition day, but what about the surrounding training/recovery?
With the increase in intensity in the training surrounding competition i would of though that Creatine may be of some use.
Also i thought that it maybe of some use on race day to 400m runners to help reduce lactic acid accumulation? -
Participant
I’ve been advised to take creatine during winter/off season as it basially helkps you go harder for longer on both the track and in the gym, is this true?
How bad is the water retention?
It’s really cheap so just give it a try. I get nothing from it and i used to take 20g a day. I have no endurance at all and i would notice if anything went up, eg. i do 4 sprints a session and total about 6-9 reps in the gym (2-3 over 80%) for an exercise.
Maybe theres a placebo effect for some.
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