Critique power clean form
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Participant
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Participant
Please do yourself a huge fav and drop the ol’s until you can find a coach in your area. Stick to the basic strength lifts, squats, bench press, deadlifts and maybe throw in some db jump squats and throws.
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Participant
Please do yourself a huge fav and drop the ol’s until you can find a coach in your area. Stick to the basic strength lifts, squats, bench press, deadlifts and maybe throw in some db jump squats and throws.
Can you point out the errors anyway for my own knowledge.
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Participant
I’m not an expert on the Olympic Lifts but based off of a lot of the feedback I get from my coach I would say you are starting the pull with your arms too early…you want to think of standing up with arms fully extended and when the bar reaches upper thigh then you start to pull with the arms and shrug. A good way to work on this would be to do clean pulls and have the arms stay fully extended. I don’t think you need to steer clear of cleans though. Just keep working at your technique and make sure you aren’t doing them hunched over or catching it with super wide stance.
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Participant
I’m not an expert on the Olympic Lifts but based off of a lot of the feedback I get from my coach I would say you are starting the pull with your arms too early…you want to think of standing up with arms fully extended and when the bar reaches upper thigh then you start to pull with the arms and shrug. A good way to work on this would be to do clean pulls and have the arms stay fully extended. I don’t think you need to steer clear of cleans though. Just keep working at your technique and make sure you aren’t doing them hunched over or catching it with super wide stance.
Really, he shouldn’t steer clear of the cleans?? LOL!!! Shit he’s going get hurt just by trying to rack and unrack 175lbs, I don’t need to go any further. Drop the ol’s and find a good coach in your area to teach you proper tech..
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Member
UTFootball is right. You don’t need to be cleaning with that form. Breaking it down:
-You’re pulling with the arms and upper back rather than letting your hips do the work.
-You’re not racking the barbell on your shoulders, you’re catching it in your hands.
-You’re stepping out and forward with your left foot on the catch.
-You’re lowering the bar incorrectly. Don’t round your back when putting it down.
-Overall, you’re muscling it up rather than powering it up. It’s supposed to be a fast movement.If you can fix all of that, you’ll be doing fine. In the mean time, keep the weight low and use weighted box jumps or something instead.
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Participant
UTFootball is right. You don’t need to be cleaning with that form. Breaking it down:
-You’re pulling with the arms and upper back rather than letting your hips do the work.
-You’re not racking the barbell on your shoulders, you’re catching it in your hands.
-You’re stepping out and forward with your left foot on the catch.
-You’re lowering the bar incorrectly. Don’t round your back when putting it down.
-Overall, you’re muscling it up rather than powering it up. It’s supposed to be a fast movement.If you can fix all of that, you’ll be doing fine. In the mean time, keep the weight low and use weighted box jumps or something instead.
BTW, you are built like a toothpick and would be better off spending more time adding quality muscle and strength while sticking to those basic lifts I mention earlier. By adding 5-10lbs of muscle and getting stronger in the squat/deadlift it will be easier to learn the clean/snatch.
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Participant
His bar path is not that bad.
It looks like you use your arms to lift the bar which is not good. You can teach yourself without a coach IF you devote a ton of time to learning the lifts which would probably take time from the sport you are actually training for. To teach yourself you would want to video yourself almost every session and compare to pros and read tons of info about proper bar paths and body positions.
It is ok to have a little arm bend when it is subconsciously due to using the lats to pull the bar in and keep it closer. You will see as many pros do this as those who do not but it is usually imperceptible unless you watch it in slo-mo. But you look like you are using the arms to pull the bar up which is not what you want.
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Participant
His bar path is not that bad.
It looks like you use your arms to lift the bar which is not good. You can teach yourself without a coach IF you devote a ton of time to learning the lifts which would probably take time from the sport you are actually training for. To teach yourself you would want to video yourself almost every session and compare to pros and read tons of info about proper bar paths and body positions.
It is ok to have a little arm bend when it is subconsciously due to using the lats to pull the bar in and keep it closer. You will see as many pros do this as those who do not but it is usually imperceptible unless you watch it in slo-mo. But you look like you are using the arms to pull the bar up which is not what you want.
Goodluck with that task at 16years old…
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Participant
Goodluck with that task at 16years old…
I am sorry, but I’ve seen 16 year-olds learn things that require a lot more coordination than power cleans. The age is not a problem, it’s a factor. Getting it correctly at that age could benefit him a lot if he continues to perform it in training later. Getting it correctly at his level of physical development would require a very thought-through process, with appropriate weight and learning sequences.
Eric above mentioned “…and when the bar reaches upper thigh then you start to pull with the arms and shrug”. I don’t think this is the correct firing sequence. I think the arms are just hooks that use the traps as an anchor point during the extension of the legs and the backward lean of the upper body. As soon as that is accomplished, the legs should be relaxed and the effort of the traps and arms should be aimed at lowering the body around the bar, i.e, even though the bar is still going up, the shrug and flexing of the arms should be so explosive that the whole body is “pulled down” using the bar as a base to pull down at. -
Participant
[quote author="utfootball4" date="1265340549"]
Goodluck with that task at 16years old…
I am sorry, but I’ve seen 16 year-olds learn things that require a lot more coordination than power cleans. The age is not a problem, it’s a factor. Getting it correctly at that age could benefit him a lot if he continues to perform it in training later. Getting it correctly at his level of physical development would require a very thought-through process, with appropriate weight and learning sequences.
Eric above mentioned “…and when the bar reaches upper thigh then you start to pull with the arms and shrug”. I don’t think this is the correct firing sequence. I think the arms are just hooks that use the traps as an anchor point during the extension of the legs and the backward lean of the upper body. As soon as that is accomplished, the legs should be relaxed and the effort of the traps and arms should be aimed at lowering the body around the bar, i.e, even though the bar is still going up, the shrug and flexing of the arms should be so explosive that the whole body is “pulled down” using the bar as a base to pull down at.[/quote]Like I said “goodluck”, I have 23yr old athletes who can’t teach themselves how to power clean. Maybe you are coaching book nerds instead of athletes.
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Participant
[quote author="Denis Eradiri (sizerp)" date="1265341586"][quote author="utfootball4" date="1265340549"]
Goodluck with that task at 16years old…
I am sorry, but I’ve seen 16 year-olds learn things that require a lot more coordination than power cleans. The age is not a problem, it’s a factor. Getting it correctly at that age could benefit him a lot if he continues to perform it in training later. Getting it correctly at his level of physical development would require a very thought-through process, with appropriate weight and learning sequences.
Eric above mentioned “…and when the bar reaches upper thigh then you start to pull with the arms and shrug”. I don’t think this is the correct firing sequence. I think the arms are just hooks that use the traps as an anchor point during the extension of the legs and the backward lean of the upper body. As soon as that is accomplished, the legs should be relaxed and the effort of the traps and arms should be aimed at lowering the body around the bar, i.e, even though the bar is still going up, the shrug and flexing of the arms should be so explosive that the whole body is “pulled down” using the bar as a base to pull down at.[/quote]Like I said “goodluck”, I have 23yr old athletes who can’t teach themselves how to power clean. Maybe you are coaching book nerds instead of athletes.[/quote]
Like I said, in my opinion you pretty much have to devote all or most of your sporting time to learning them if you are going to teach yourself. This is of course impractical for most any athlete but an Olympic lifter.
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Participant
[quote author="utfootball4" date="1265341797"][quote author="Denis Eradiri (sizerp)" date="1265341586"][quote author="utfootball4" date="1265340549"]
Goodluck with that task at 16years old…
I am sorry, but I’ve seen 16 year-olds learn things that require a lot more coordination than power cleans. The age is not a problem, it’s a factor. Getting it correctly at that age could benefit him a lot if he continues to perform it in training later. Getting it correctly at his level of physical development would require a very thought-through process, with appropriate weight and learning sequences.
Eric above mentioned “…and when the bar reaches upper thigh then you start to pull with the arms and shrug”. I don’t think this is the correct firing sequence. I think the arms are just hooks that use the traps as an anchor point during the extension of the legs and the backward lean of the upper body. As soon as that is accomplished, the legs should be relaxed and the effort of the traps and arms should be aimed at lowering the body around the bar, i.e, even though the bar is still going up, the shrug and flexing of the arms should be so explosive that the whole body is “pulled down” using the bar as a base to pull down at.[/quote]Like I said “goodluck”, I have 23yr old athletes who can’t teach themselves how to power clean. Maybe you are coaching book nerds instead of athletes.[/quote]
Like I said, in my opinion you pretty much have to devote all or most of your sporting time to learning them if you are going to teach yourself. This is of course impractical for most any athlete but an Olympic lifter.[/quote]
LOL, stop trying to argue with me when you agree. That’s my point he’s not a weightlifter, he’s a 16yr old track and field student athlete.
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Participant
[quote author="Roger Nelsen (RJ24)" date="1265281014"]UTFootball is right. You don’t need to be cleaning with that form. Breaking it down:
-You’re pulling with the arms and upper back rather than letting your hips do the work.
-You’re not racking the barbell on your shoulders, you’re catching it in your hands.
-You’re stepping out and forward with your left foot on the catch.
-You’re lowering the bar incorrectly. Don’t round your back when putting it down.
-Overall, you’re muscling it up rather than powering it up. It’s supposed to be a fast movement.If you can fix all of that, you’ll be doing fine. In the mean time, keep the weight low and use weighted box jumps or something instead.
BTW, you are built like a toothpick and would be better off spending more time adding quality muscle and strength while sticking to those basic lifts I mention earlier. By adding 5-10lbs of muscle and getting stronger in the squat/deadlift it will be easier to learn the clean/snatch.[/quote]
Are you sure about this? Im not trying to brag/estat, but i can already get 3-5 reps into 365 on squats and just about doing 405 on deadlift, repping 245 bench. I dont think at this current moment putting greater emphasis on strength/hypertrophy will help a lot…
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Participant
[quote author="utfootball4" date="1265282452"][quote author="Roger Nelsen (RJ24)" date="1265281014"]UTFootball is right. You don’t need to be cleaning with that form. Breaking it down:
-You’re pulling with the arms and upper back rather than letting your hips do the work.
-You’re not racking the barbell on your shoulders, you’re catching it in your hands.
-You’re stepping out and forward with your left foot on the catch.
-You’re lowering the bar incorrectly. Don’t round your back when putting it down.
-Overall, you’re muscling it up rather than powering it up. It’s supposed to be a fast movement.If you can fix all of that, you’ll be doing fine. In the mean time, keep the weight low and use weighted box jumps or something instead.
BTW, you are built like a toothpick and would be better off spending more time adding quality muscle and strength while sticking to those basic lifts I mention earlier. By adding 5-10lbs of muscle and getting stronger in the squat/deadlift it will be easier to learn the clean/snatch.[/quote]
Are you sure about this? Im not trying to brag/estat, but i can already get 3-5 reps into 365 on squats and just about doing 405 on deadlift, repping 245 bench. I dont think at this current moment putting greater emphasis on strength/hypertrophy will help a lot…[/quote]
Give me a F***** break, no way you squat 365 3-5 reps and struggling with 175 on clean..
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Member
Trackspeedboy, you can’t squat 365 for reps, not to any real depth anyways. If you could do that you’d be power snatching 175 like an unloaded bar. Post video of these squats. No offense, but I’d bet money that they’re a mile high.
Brooke, I taught myself the OLY lifts to a decent degree of proficiency and it took almost no time at all. He could very easily learn the lifts himself, but it’ll take a fair amount of effort and discipline on his part.
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Participant
[quote author="trackspeedboy" date="1265361369"][quote author="utfootball4" date="1265282452"][quote author="Roger Nelsen (RJ24)" date="1265281014"]UTFootball is right. You don’t need to be cleaning with that form. Breaking it down:
-You’re pulling with the arms and upper back rather than letting your hips do the work.
-You’re not racking the barbell on your shoulders, you’re catching it in your hands.
-You’re stepping out and forward with your left foot on the catch.
-You’re lowering the bar incorrectly. Don’t round your back when putting it down.
-Overall, you’re muscling it up rather than powering it up. It’s supposed to be a fast movement.If you can fix all of that, you’ll be doing fine. In the mean time, keep the weight low and use weighted box jumps or something instead.
BTW, you are built like a toothpick and would be better off spending more time adding quality muscle and strength while sticking to those basic lifts I mention earlier. By adding 5-10lbs of muscle and getting stronger in the squat/deadlift it will be easier to learn the clean/snatch.[/quote]
Are you sure about this? Im not trying to brag/estat, but i can already get 3-5 reps into 365 on squats and just about doing 405 on deadlift, repping 245 bench. I dont think at this current moment putting greater emphasis on strength/hypertrophy will help a lot…[/quote]
Give me a F***** break, no way you squat 365 3-5 reps and struggling with 175 on clean..[/quote]
I actually do… I’ve only made this thread to get help for myself, so there wouldn’t be any point in lying.
My depth on squats depends on the day, because I always squat after sprinting, sometimes my spinal erectors are too “tight” so I can’t hit parallel even with 295 or 315 (build up sets) and hurts when going deep on my warm up sets as well.
When my spinal erectors arent as tight and im having a good day, I reach parallel when doing up to 345-365 for at least the first 2 reps, and after that people watching tell me it’s a bit higher than parallel.
Hard to explain, but my weight/depth goes up and down a lot depending on the day. Some days 335 hurts, and another day 355-365 doesn’t feel too bad.
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Member
My depth on squats depends on the day, because I always squat after sprinting, sometimes my spinal erectors are too “tight” so I can’t hit parallel even with 295 or 315 (build up sets) and hurts when going deep on my warm up sets as well.
When my spinal erectors arent as tight and im having a good day, I reach parallel when doing up to 345-365 for at least the first 2 reps, and after that people watching tell me it’s a bit higher than parallel.
Hard to explain, but my weight/depth goes up and down a lot depending on the day. Some days 335 hurts, and another day 355-365 doesn’t feel too bad.
You can make these claims all you want, but fact of the matter is that if you could genuinely squat 365 lbs for reps, 175 lbs would be a warm up weight for cleans. Similarly, you’d be able to pull 405 with ease on the deadlift. You’re not going nearly as deep as you think you are. Post video of your squats.
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Participant
[quote author="trackspeedboy" date="1265362190"]
My depth on squats depends on the day, because I always squat after sprinting, sometimes my spinal erectors are too “tight” so I can’t hit parallel even with 295 or 315 (build up sets) and hurts when going deep on my warm up sets as well.When my spinal erectors arent as tight and im having a good day, I reach parallel when doing up to 345-365 for at least the first 2 reps, and after that people watching tell me it’s a bit higher than parallel.
Hard to explain, but my weight/depth goes up and down a lot depending on the day. Some days 335 hurts, and another day 355-365 doesn’t feel too bad.
You can make these claims all you want, but fact of the matter is that if you could genuinely squat 365 lbs for reps, 175 lbs would be a warm up weight for cleans. Similarly, you’d be able to pull 405 with ease on the deadlift. You’re not going nearly as deep as you think you are. Post video of your squats.[/quote]
I don’t judge my own depth, other people do.
And last year wen I could rep 285 on squats for 5, my clean was 170×1. Just not something I’ve been succesful with. -
Participant
I’ve seen your videos. You are a significant way from hitting parallel on any squat video that is there.
The couple videos from this year were after a 2 day meet (last sunday) and that is not how I normally squat, i’ll get a couple more videos when I squat this sunday again.
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Member
Yeah, I just checked out all the squat videos on your Youtube channel and you’re doing 1/4 squats. And the way in which you’re handling the weight tells me you’re not nearly as strong as you think you are. As everyone has told you already, you are not squatting 365 for reps. I would actually bet you couldn’t hit 315 x 3 to proper depth. Hell, 315 might give you trouble for a single.
Do yourself a favor, lower the weight to 225 lbs and actually squat. Shallow knee bends have no place in a sprinter’s training.
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Member
I know this isn’t strictly related to your clean technique and hopefully it won’t come across the wrong way…
But…from reading your posts a lot of them seem to be about supplements and (imo) dodgy ones at that like epehedrine and testosterone etc…basically stuff that I would never even consider touching as I think its a fine line between them and banned stuff.
You appear to be very strong from your strength stats especially for your weight and again a lot of your posts are about how to get stronger and how strong you need to be etc etc…
It comes across (to me at least) that you are looking for anyway to get faster without actually doing the most important thing i.e the running! Surely at 15/16 or however old you are just keeping up a regular well planned training regime is the most important thing rather than asking about supplementing testosterone or being able to squat 3x your BW!
If it were me I’d just concentrate on your running and see how you progess as you have plenty of years ahead of you to improve.
In blunt terms, your obviously strong enough to sprint very fast so doesn’t that indicate that you need to focus your attention on other factors other than outright strength if you aren’t getting the times you want.
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Trackspeedboy, where are you located? I’ll bet we could find someone to help you with the lifts in your area. I know tons of people, as does Brooke; even people not “officially” listed as coaches who know what they’re doing.
Also, your clean form isn’t too bad. As Brooke said, your pull is okay, as is your bar path. At the end of the lift, pull yourself under the bar, and focus on keeping your feet in line with each other (not the little stagger you have), and jump downward to catch the bar on bent knees. You could learn to clean well in few sessions.
Squat deep every time. If you can’t squat deep, you can’t squat. I don’t care where you carry the bar (high or low), squat deep. If your back is too tight from the sprinting, then use less weight and go through the full range of motion. The weight you use is not as important as the form- getting stronger in an above parallel squat is useless.
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Participant
Squat weights are inherently lies. 93% of all humans do not squat to competition depth so the numbers are virtually meaningless. Almost every guy that I speak to who squats claims to squat 400+ when in reality they cannot competition squat over 250 for a single.
That being said, you can teach yourself power cleans. It can be helpful to video like you are already doing then continually compare to someone with model form from youtube such as this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCUmi2oqlvA -
Participant
[quote author="Mike McKenna" date="1265397419"]…
The weight you use is not as important as the form- getting stronger in an above parallel squat is useless.Would you define “useless”?[/quote]
There are lots of sprinters who squatted above parallel, deeper than most gym folks but still not “deep”. Doesn’t necessarily mean that we should do what they did and not go deeper but it didn’t hurt a lot of pros.
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Participant
Interesting comments on the difficulty of learning the clean. I have, in the past, made comments concerning the difficulty in developing a profecient clean technique to the point that it could actually be useful in a MxS or Power program. I was routinely informed that it was no problem to learn good clean technique. James Smith, of whom I’m no great fan, was basically run off this board, at least in part, for suggesting that most athletes would be better served with a combination of squats/plyos/medballs than to waste their time trying to develop descent form on the clean. Interesting how, rather than providing tips to the OP on improving his clean, many are telling him to go squat. Interesting.
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Participant
He can’t even squat properly. I don’t think his issues are unique to Olympic lifts. Also, I think UT is the only one strong against him using cleans. I have an issue with him using ANY lifts as he is currently doing them. The squats are just scary–and I’m not even talking about depth. He is dive bombing the minimal depth he is reaching and that just seems like a Youtube catastrophe waiting to happen.
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Participant
Interesting comments on the difficulty of learning the clean. I have, in the past, made comments concerning the difficulty in developing a profecient clean technique to the point that it could actually be useful in a MxS or Power program. I was routinely informed that it was no problem to learn good clean technique. James Smith, of whom I’m no great fan, was basically run off this board, at least in part, for suggesting that most athletes would be better served with a combination of squats/plyos/medballs than to waste their time trying to develop descent form on the clean. Interesting how, rather than providing tips to the OP on improving his clean, many are telling him to go squat. Interesting.
It was James decision to leave, I am on the same page with James. If I have 6-8 weeks with an athlete I will not waste time teaching ol’s when I can reap benefits from squats, plyo’s, throws, speed work and, weighted jumps. I have had success with my athletes with/out ol’s!
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Participant
Yeah, I just checked out all the squat videos on your Youtube channel and you’re doing 1/4 squats. And the way in which you’re handling the weight tells me you’re not nearly as strong as you think you are. As everyone has told you already, you are not squatting 365 for reps. I would actually bet you couldn’t hit 315 x 3 to proper depth. Hell, 315 might give you trouble for a single.
Do yourself a favor, lower the weight to 225 lbs and actually squat. Shallow knee bends have no place in a sprinter’s training.
I dont think so… perhaps you didnt understand what I meant by my spinal erectors being tight, it makes a huge difference to me. Don’t judge by my videos, all the squat ones were not on my good days.
But yes I will get the weight to 315-335 range and make sure I’m strictly reaching parallel. -
Participant
To be blunt your technique is absolute shite on the cleans. It would take you a long time to learn to do them properly for them to actually translate into the track. Drop the cleans, there are so many easier things you can do. It’s not the be all and end all. Or are you just another gym guy that likes high numbers in every lift? 90% of your vids are gym stuff, not much track. Them quarter and half squats wont be doing much for you either.
How about clean pulls?
And I just don’t really film sprint workouts… no reason to if someone is watching my form right there. -
Participant
He can’t even squat properly. I don’t think his issues are unique to Olympic lifts. Also, I think UT is the only one strong against him using cleans. I have an issue with him using ANY lifts as he is currently doing them. The squats are just scary–and I’m not even talking about depth. He is dive bombing the minimal depth he is reaching and that just seems like a Youtube catastrophe waiting to happen.
dive bombing minimal depth?
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yea i would say do the high clean pull. you will get that in quarter of the time. same effect, catching is useless unless you jerk.
If he must, I would stick with clean pulls to the waist. High pulls = elbows bend power ends..
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Participant
yea i would say do the high clean pull. you will get that in quarter of the time. same effect, catching is useless unless you jerk.
Good point but some would disagree about catching being useless. Catching allows you to gauge progress (you can do pulls with a broomstick perpendicular to gauge progress as well).
Most importantly and what I have heard some prominent coaches point out – receiving the clean allows you to learn to absorb high loads and also allows you to train the rapid switch between concentric and eccentric similar to sprinting.
Doing a high pull without having learned the lift correctly first could really fubar ones technique and INCREASE the chances that they will utilize the arms to lift upward which is incorrect.
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Member
I dont think so… perhaps you didnt understand what I meant by my spinal erectors being tight, it makes a [b]huge[/b] difference to me. Don’t judge by my videos, all the squat ones were not on my good days.
But yes I will get the weight to 315-335 range and make sure I’m strictly reaching parallel.Honestly, it really doesn’t matter what you think. You have trouble cleaning 175 lbs. Regardless of what you’ve got going on in your head, you’re not that strong. The most I’ve ever squatted in a set is 365 x 5 (it was submaximal, but still). I’ve power cleaned 300 lbs, and that was on my first time trying the lift. If your squat numbers are that high, your clean numbers should be too.
And tight spinal erectors wouldn’t actually do much to hamper squat depth. Maintaining an arch in the lower back requires shortened spinal erectors.
The sooner you’re able to set your ego aside, the better off you’ll be.
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Participant
I’m with Evan (davan). Start doing the lifts right. That is a hard thing to do. I was chasing numbers till I realized that was fruitless. Dropped all my weights by 10% and have gotten stronger. I’m ok saying I only (full squat) 300 lbs. To Mort’s point, most guys say they can do 400 and can’t even do a single with 2 plates.
Your squats are not even squats – but they are a little better than I expected based on others’ comments. And if you could actually squat 365, you could power curl 175 for reps, 175 cleans would be a joke.
Just start doing full squats. Whatever weight it takes where you can hit your ass to your heels. Sit there for a second and then go back up.
Oh – and I say keep cleaning. Look at others’ vids and teach yourself.
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