Dealing with NCAA 8 hour Rule during GPP

    Posted In: What Would You Do?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on August 16, 2006 at 6:23 am #12114

          A timely "what would you do?"

          Athletes: A team of collegiate speed / power athletes (sprinters and / or jumpers).

          Scenario: You are setting up GPP training for your speed / power athletes. Unfortunately you are in the period of time where NCAA restrictions limit your training to 8 hours of supervised practice / week. To make things worse, your university won't let the athletes train using athletic department facilities or equipment (weight room, track, med balls, etc) without a coaches supervision.

          Things to consider:
          *What would you focus on (speed, strength, flexibility, etc)?
          *How would you alter your normal / ideal training scheme?
          *What methods would you use to maximize time efficiency?

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on August 16, 2006 at 6:47 am #55928

          i really would keep my overall plan the same, i would give the captain my warmup and cooldown program and let them warmup and cooldown so once i get to the track they are ready to workout. things to consider i may try and talk to my AD and see can we hire a work study student to supervise the weight room, if hes a good AD he will work with you as much as possible. Also like many coaches they go over the 8hr work limit maybe not much but 10-20min per week.

          Focus: General Fitness, Overall Strength Levels and Develop Acc mech.

          I would have to alter my training some for example I wont be able to give them as much rest as I may want etc.

          The seniors and captains will have a major role and will have to have strong leadership and be ready to work so everyone else can follow.

          mon: 30min weights/80min track
          hill work 10-40m
          low vol med ball throws
          clean and jerk
          back squats

          tue: 45mins
          tempos
          bb circuits

          wed: 30min weights/80min track
          low vol med ball acc
          flat acc work 10-40m
          power snatch
          front squats

          thur:45mins
          tempo
          bb circuits

          fri: 30min weights/80min track
          low vol med ball throws or jumps
          intensive tempo 1600m
          power clean
          back squats
          bench press

          OR

          make friday another hill workout and then make saturday a captain practice workout and have the captains lead a intensive tempo or ext tempo workout.

        • Participant
          flight05 on August 16, 2006 at 6:59 am #55929

          is this a new rule for this year?

          i know what we did last year was keep the sprints with short recovery to maximize time, stairs were done on our own time, the following day, and tempo workouts are fairly quick

          warmup/cooldowns were done on our own with our respective captains.

          i like the setup utfootball has there, we did the same thing basically except we dont have hills so it was stairs…

          we were also able to get some quick jumping in before the speed days but our wieghtroom i think was supervised by Grad assist.

        • Participant
          Kebba Tolbert on August 16, 2006 at 7:26 am #55930

          no comment  :dance:

        • Participant
          Chad Williams on August 16, 2006 at 7:34 am #55931

          I would go with a 4 day week, taking Wednesday Off but encouring they play basketball or some sort of recreational sport.   

          Monday – Hurdle walks, Weights with high volume/ low intensity multi throws + acc + core (2)
          Tuesday –  Intensive Tempo runs + plyo circuit + Barefoot walks + core (1.5)
          Wed – Off (Basketball or some other sport encouraged)
          Thursday – Hurdle walks, Weights with low volume/high intensity multi throws + hills + core (2)
          Friday –  Extensive Tempo runs + very light plyo circuit + Barefoot walks + core (1.5)

          As much as I would like to leave warming up and cooling down to the older athletes, I would rather take more time in the beginning with 4 days with them myself than leave them on their own.  I believe the GPP is vital to establishing proper warm-up, practice and cooling down procedures which set the tone for the rest of the year.  Also, I would hate to leave anything unsupervised during these early stages (weightroom esp) for fear of improper technique development. 

          Furthermore time efficiency is far less important than establishing a solid routine.  Exercises and technique are often repeated in the early stages to reiterate proper form and with the four day week, it leaves some time to play around with when early practices run long.

               
           

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on August 16, 2006 at 10:57 am #55932

          I would go with a 4 day week, taking Wednesday Off but encouring they play basketball or some sort of recreational sport.   

          Monday – Hurdle walks, Weights with high volume/ low intensity multi throws + acc + core (2)
          Tuesday –  Intensive Tempo runs + plyo circuit + Barefoot walks + core (1.5)
          Wed – Off (Basketball or some other sport encouraged)
          Thursday – Hurdle walks, Weights with low volume/high intensity multi throws + hills + core (2)
          Friday –  Extensive Tempo runs + very light plyo circuit + Barefoot walks + core (1.5)

          As much as I would like to leave warming up and cooling down to the older athletes, I would rather take more time in the beginning with 4 days with them myself than leave them on their own.  I believe the GPP is vital to establishing proper warm-up, practice and cooling down procedures which set the tone for the rest of the year.  Also, I would hate to leave anything unsupervised during these early stages (weightroom esp) for fear of improper technique development. 

          Furthermore time efficiency is far less important than establishing a solid routine.  Exercises and technique are often repeated in the early stages to reiterate proper form and with the four day week, it leaves some time to play around with when early practices run long.

               
           

          just curious why bb on wed i could see maybe during summer or with high school girls, but at the college level LETS RUN AND SAVE GAMES FOR ANOTHER TIME.

        • Participant
          Daniel Andrews on August 16, 2006 at 11:36 am #55933

          Because too much focus on running/sprinting makes you stale.  It's GPP, not the competitive season.

        • Participant
          track400 on August 16, 2006 at 5:35 pm #55934

          damimal- this is exactly the topic we spent time on in my level one course.  in an off season that we should develop more systems other than the ones we do during the season.  ex.  playing basketball, soccer all year around, the body needs to work more systems if it wants to see improvement in the other sports.  we talked in length about this in our physiology (and some bio-motor) discussion.  i know this is more for younger athletes, but our instructor still thought it was important that doing other activites that athletes like was important for development.

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on August 16, 2006 at 7:08 pm #55935

          Because too much focus on running/sprinting makes you stale.  It's GPP, not the competitive season.

          i disagree, i would do a 20min run before i let my athletes play basketball.  so let say if one of your best sprinters blow a Achilles tendon?

        • Participant
          pzale8018 on August 16, 2006 at 7:32 pm #55936

          I too am a proponent of a 4 day work week.  Most likely, your athletes didn't do as much off season work as you would have liked and they may not be in the kind of shape you'd like them to be in.  They will probably respond pretty well to having that extra day off.  Use the 4 days to get the work done you need to do.  If they seem able to handle more, have the seniors call practice one day a week and have that be a recovery/tempo day. 

          [quote author="danimal9" date="1155708424"]
          Because too much focus on running/sprinting makes you stale.  It's GPP, not the competitive season.

          i disagree, i would do a 20min run before i let my athletes play basketball.  so let say if one of your best sprinters blow a Achilles tendon?
          [/quote]

          I'm with danimal on this one.  While I would never put too much focus on games, I think a mental break from the track is a useful tool to keeping the kids excited, motivated, and wanting to come back.  Maybe basketball isn't a good choice of activities, due to the high risk of injury, but you have that risk with any activity you do.  Giving the kids a break mentally can go a long way to making it a more successful season by year's end.

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on August 16, 2006 at 10:58 pm #55937

          I too am a proponent of a 4 day work week.  Most likely, your athletes didn't do as much off season work as you would have liked and they may not be in the kind of shape you'd like them to be in.  They will probably respond pretty well to having that extra day off.  Use the 4 days to get the work done you need to do.  If they seem able to handle more, have the seniors call practice one day a week and have that be a recovery/tempo day. 

          [quote author="utfootball4" date="1155735540"]
          [quote author="danimal9" date="1155708424"]
          Because too much focus on running/sprinting makes you stale.  It's GPP, not the competitive season.

          i disagree, i would do a 20min run before i let my athletes play basketball.  so let say if one of your best sprinters blow a Achilles tendon?
          [/quote]

          I'm with danimal on this one.  While I would never put too much focus on games, I think a mental break from the track is a useful tool to keeping the kids excited, motivated, and wanting to come back.  Maybe basketball isn't a good choice of activities, due to the high risk of injury, but you have that risk with any activity you do.  Giving the kids a break mentally can go a long way to making it a more successful season by year's end.
          [/quote]

          im a believer in how vince anderson run things, he give his sprinters a 6 day a week program in the summer and let them know that if they dont report back in shape and ready to go then we will have problems – not good. bc come sept we are rolling! his summer program is as follows:

          mon: 100m sprints 12-13sec

          tue: 6×300 continuous 60sec

          wed: med ball circuit

          thur: 4×200 27 or 6×50 6sec

          fri: Grass Circuit

          sat: Activity hour walk, hoops, swim, bike, aerobics

          COME SEPT LETS ROLL, NO NEED FOR ALL THAT BB CRAP IN THE FALL!

        • Participant
          Chad Williams on August 17, 2006 at 5:14 am #55938

          I would be interested to see how PZale or Danimal would set up your 4 day week opposed to what I have already set up.       

        • Participant
          pzale8018 on August 17, 2006 at 8:29 pm #55939

          Alright…

          for quartermilers in an ends to the middle type program, it might look something like this early on in gpp…

          Monday:  Acceleration work, High intensity weights
          Tuesday:  Intensive tempo (ex:  10x200m males in 32, females in 36)
          Weds:  Off (Captain's practice, Extensive tempo or some other activity)
          Thursday:  Elastic power exercies (plyos, bounding, maybe some accel)
          Friday:  Intensive tempo
          Weekends off

          Please keep in mind that his is a proposed schedule for the beginning parts of gpp.  Once the NCAA clears you to go as often as you'd like, you move to 5 and maybe 6 days a week.  Obviously short sprinters wouldn't do nearly as much intensive tempo, if any at all.

          Like I said before, mental breaks from the grind are more important than some people think.  You can get a great deal of high quality work done even when giving the kids a little time off.  You'd be surprised at the effects.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on August 18, 2006 at 6:27 am #55940

          Wow….this one's getting good. Right now, I'm going 6 days a week with some days being as short as 50 minutes a day and others lasting up to 2 hours. I have the benefit of having my athletes have to do lots of general work as part of their school / military training….all cadets take a PE classes, PT, etc. I also have the benefit of my athletes coming in with good fitness levels. During summer they are having to do morning PT for the Army. While this stuff is by no means ideal (long distance runs, 12 mile ruck marches, calistenics, etc) it at least ensures that no one is out of shape. If anything they come highly overtrained.

          While we're not doing running workouts every day I actually wouldn't want them to be playing basketball….I gave them all summer (6-8 weeks) to do that type of thing. While the work is very general in nature at this point it's all geared towards where I want them in 3 months.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on August 18, 2006 at 7:03 am #55941

          Wow….this one's getting good. Right now, I'm going 6 days a week with some days being as short as 50 minutes a day and others lasting up to 2 hours. I have the benefit of having my athletes have to do lots of general work as part of their school / military training….all cadets take a PE classes, PT, etc. I also have the benefit of my athletes coming in with good fitness levels. During summer they are having to do morning PT for the Army. While this stuff is by no means ideal (long distance runs, 12 mile ruck marches, calistenics, etc) it at least ensures that no one is out of shape. If anything they come highly overtrained.

          While we're not doing running workouts every day I actually wouldn't want them to be playing basketball….I gave them all summer (6-8 weeks) to do that type of thing. While the work is very general in nature at this point it's all geared towards where I want them in 3 months.

          thanks a lot Mike for reforcing my point, i dont mind them playing games once a week in the summer but come fall lets work.

        • Participant
          flight05 on August 18, 2006 at 7:51 am #55942

          so is there a point of even going thru a gpp when ppl come in that good in shape? do u start sprinting/plyos right away with them?

        • Participant
          mn-highjumper on October 25, 2006 at 9:14 am #55943

          We have this time restraint right now, so here's our WOMEN'S schedule:

          4 day track week (friday's optional but 'strongly recommended)

          Mon-Thursday lifting, 45 minutes to 1 hour
          Monday and Wednesday are tempo days,
          Tuesday and Thursday are short sprint days.

          Jumpers and multi are only doing jumping components on Tuesdays and Thursdays for the next two weeks to focus somewhat more on building speed.

          An example of our typical gpp week :
          Monday, lift at 6:30 am, 10×200 at 38 with 30 seconds between each (this started at 6 and built up to 10)
          Tuesday, lift at 6:30, 2x4x30 incline sprints, 4×20 flat sprints
          Wednesday, lift at 6:30, 2×500 with 15 minutes between; last 100m in 20 seconds
          Thursday, lift at 6:30, I can't remember although I believe it is sleds…
          Friday, optional, no lift, 2x5x100 at 85%

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on October 25, 2006 at 9:49 am #55944

          so is there a point of even going thru a gpp when ppl come in that good in shape? do u start sprinting/plyos right away with them?

          The fitness levels I get them at is nothing related to speed-power development. While I know they've been active over summer I can pretty much guarantee that most of them couldn't do anything speed-power related for almost 2 months. In fact, they've probably done all endurance-type activities. Regardless though, I'd still have my sprinters doing speed-power work right off the bat. Short accelerations, low level plyos, multi-throws, etc. These can be incorporated with little regard to the fitness level as long as the dosage is appropriate within the context of the overall training scheme. For example we might do sprints as short as 5-10m the first cycle. I'd do this whether they were 'in shape' or not.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on October 25, 2006 at 9:31 pm #55945

          We have this time restraint right now, so here's our WOMEN'S schedule:

          4 day track week (friday's optional but 'strongly recommended)

          Mon-Thursday lifting, 45 minutes to 1 hour
          Monday and Wednesday are tempo days,
          Tuesday and Thursday are short sprint days.

          Jumpers and multi are only doing jumping components on Tuesdays and Thursdays for the next two weeks to focus somewhat more on building speed.

          An example of our typical gpp week :
          Monday, lift at 6:30 am, 10×200 at 38 with 30 seconds between each (this started at 6 and built up to 10)
          Tuesday, lift at 6:30, 2x4x30 incline sprints, 4×20 flat sprints
          Wednesday, lift at 6:30, 2×500 with 15 minutes between; last 100m in 20 seconds
          Thursday, lift at 6:30, I can't remember although I believe it is sleds…
          Friday, optional, no lift, 2x5x100 at 85%

          The only problem I really see with that setup is that athletes could potentially go 3 consecutive days without training. I'd much rather see the optional day on Wednesday and then have mandatory practice on Thursday and Friday. Also, seems like a lot of tempo work for jumpers but it could work depending on how the remainder of the year's training is set up.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on October 26, 2006 at 6:14 am #55946

          i agree too much tempo and dont understand why they are doing tempo before speed.

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