[RunnerMan]

RunnerMan on April 4, 2007 at 9:56 am #12933

o ok, fair enuf.

Just as you no doubt r aware, there are many rumours circulating that starting weights at a young age stunts growth and others say thats false. Persoanlly i agree that it does coz it cause the growth plates in your bones to fuse earlier with the repitive high strength demands placed on the body, evidently stunting growth. Thats why you often see loads of sprinters, gymnists and other athletes who started lifting/extreme bodyweight work (thousands and thousands of reps) are always short and stocky – NEVER EVER tall, unless on the rare occasion. There's definitely a pattern to it.

I myself am proof, my dad 6'2, my bro 6'3 and i'm 5'10 , my childhood growth patterns showed i should readch 6'3 as well (i was a conistent grower, never any unusually excessive periods). I had an x-ray on a suspected broken ankle when i was 14 and my bones were shown to have already fused, which the sports doc said was absurb and was due to my strength training (hes good, been on 4 olympic tems as sports doc for nz). I did a few dunbbells but mainly i did 400 push-up reps a day since i was 12.

[star61]

star61 on April 4, 2007 at 10:51 am #63940

o ok, fair enuf.

Just as you no doubt r aware, there are many rumours circulating that starting weights at a young age stunts growth and others say thats false. Persoanlly i agree that it does coz it cause the growth plates in your bones to fuse earlier with the repitive high strength demands placed on the body, evidently stunting growth.

Why do yo believe this to be true, other than rumors and the observations you've made? I haven't looked at any research myself…are you aware of medical studies that document this? I'm interested because I have a 13yo who's shown some interest in hitting the gym this summer.

Thats why you often see loads of sprinters, gymnists and other athletes who started lifting/extreme bodyweight work (thousands and thousands of reps) are always short and stocky – NEVER EVER tall, unless on the rare occasion. There's definitely a pattern to it.

This is a self-fulfilling prophecy and circular reasoning, not really evidence. Even if no gymnasts, spriters, powerlifters etc, ever lifted before the age of 18, gymnasts would still be short and stocky and never tall, sprinters would look like they do now, etc. This is because bodytype is generally dictated by the demands of the particular sport. Seven footers don't make good gymnasts, or sprinters, for that matter.

I myself am proof, my dad 6'2, my bro 6'3 and i'm 5'10 , my childhood growth patterns showed i should readch 6'3 as well (i was a conistent grower, never any unusually excessive periods). I had an x-ray on a suspected broken ankle when i was 14 and my bones were shown to have already fused, which the sports doc said was absurb and was due to my strength training (hes good, been on 4 olympic tems as sports doc for nz). I did a few dunbbells but mainly i did 400 push-up reps a day since i was 12.

Why would pushups cause the growth plates in your leg to fuse? My dad and I are 6'4", my older brother is 6'7", and the brother just younger than him is 5'11". None of them have ever lifted weights in their life, it's just the bell curve in action.

I'm certainly not saying that intense lifting couldn't or doesn't cause early growth plate fusing, but I'd like to see some studies. I'll do some searching tomorrow…if you have any please post some llinks. My son wants to play basketball in high school, so I'd like to know the bottom line on this subject.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 4, 2007 at 10:55 am #63941

There's no evidence whatsoever to my knowledge to suggest that weightlifting of any kind (assuming it is performed safely) will damage the growth plates and stunt growth. This is a myth perpetrated by well-meaning doctors who extend advise beyond their area of expertise. The loads experienced in running and jumping far exceed what any child could weight lift and no one ever tells their child not to run and jump.

ELITETRACK Founder

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on April 4, 2007 at 11:11 am #63942

There's no evidence whatsoever to my knowledge to suggest that weightlifting of any kind (assuming it is performed safely) will damage the growth plates and stunt growth. This is a myth perpetrated by well-meaning doctors who extend advise beyond their area of expertise. The loads experienced in running and jumping far exceed what any child could weight lift and no one ever tells their child not to run and jump.

i feel like we are in the 1980's. lol

[RunnerMan]

RunnerMan on April 4, 2007 at 1:46 pm #63943

on the topic, height makes no difference for sprints, i know a 16 year old who is 2.02m (ova 6'7) and runs da 1 in 10.61 FAT. Not bad i say. And his main sport is basketball. In our country your not allowed (with the consent of the gym staff/personal trainers) in a weights room til you turn 15 because it is a recognised fact that heavy lifting (as UT posted the girl had done) fuses bones early (school also dosen't allow it for these reasons). The same is appliable to at least some parts of australia as well. Our national education system for gaining credit to enter uni has the physical studies, and one of the main assessments is on the fact on weights fusing bones early and stunting growth, my physios are also the physios of the cheifs, and have done all black physio as well, (this is the sport rugby) and they tell me that lifting too early,ie pre 16+ will stunt your growth, and one of my m8's did a project on weights stunting groowth and passed with honours and their findings were sent to an international sports studies board and performed well there to. Just some reasons why i beleive what i believe, because it's true.

people who say it dosen't stunt growth are almost always being defensive of what they personally did in the past, or more often, what they are making kids do now, and its more for self-reassurance then anything. All people from a neutral angle that i've ever met and discussed the topic with are absolutely convinced it stunts growth (and these are health-professionals to)

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on April 4, 2007 at 1:52 pm #63944

on the topic, height makes no difference for sprints, i know a 16 year old who is 2.02m (ova 6'7) and runs da 1 in 10.61 FAT. Not bad i say. And his main sport is basketball. In our country your not allowed in a weights room til you turn 15 because it is a recognised fact that heavy lifting (as UT posted the girl had done) fuses bones early. The same is appliable to at least some parts of australia as well. Our national education system for gaining credit to enter uni has the physical studies, and one of the main assessments is on the fact on weights fusing bones early and stunting growth, my physios are also the physios of the cheifs, and have done all black physio as well, (this is the sport rugby) and they tell me that lifting too early,ie pre 16+ will stunt your growth, and one of my m8's did a project on weights stunting groowth and passed with honours and their findings were sent to an international sports studies board and performed well there to. Just some reasons why i beleive what i believe, because it's true.

people who say it dosen't stunt growth are almost always being defensive of what they personally did in the past, or more often, what they are making kids do now, and its more for self-reassurance then anything. All people from a neutral angle that i've ever met and discussed the topic with are absolutely convinced it stunts growth (and these are health-professionals to)

just curious when did i say she was during heavy lifting?

[star61]

star61 on April 4, 2007 at 8:59 pm #63945

on the topic, height makes no difference for sprints, i know a 16 year old who is 2.02m (ova 6'7) and runs da 1 in 10.61 FAT….

Height does matter. Your 16you is the exception, not the rule. 

Our national education system for gaining credit to enter uni has the physical studies, and one of the main assessments is on the fact on weights fusing bones early and stunting growth, my physios are also the physios of the cheifs, and have done all black physio as well, (this is the sport rugby) and they tell me that lifting too early,ie pre 16+ will stunt your growth, and one of my m8's did a project on weights stunting groowth and passed with honours and their findings were sent to an international sports studies board and performed well there to. Just some reasons why i beleive what i believe, because it's true.

Could you post a link to this study, or any studies, that quantify this?

people who say it dosen't stunt growth are almost always being defensive of what they personally did in the past, or more often, what they are making kids do now, and its more for self-reassurance then anything….

Funny, all the people I know who talk about how this or that stunts your growth are short, always under 6 feet. I rarely hear tall people (>6ft.) complaining about things that stunt their growth.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 4, 2007 at 9:18 pm #63946

people who say it dosen't stunt growth are almost always being defensive of what they personally did in the past, or more often, what they are making kids do now, and its more for self-reassurance then anything. All people from a neutral angle that i've ever met and discussed the topic with are absolutely convinced it stunts growth (and these are health-professionals to)

Now that I think about it you're right…I started lifting at the age of 12 and I'm only 5'8" (~1.7m) tall. It surely must be due to the fact that I was lifting so early and not because both my parents are under 5'7. Weight lifting early also seems to have had similar growth-stunting effects on Shaquille O'Neil (7' / 2.1m), Arnold Schwarzenegger (6'1" / 1.90m), Lou Ferrigno (6'2" / 1.92m) who all started lifting very early on and eneded up being midgets.

😉

On a more serious note, I'd LOVE to see any research-based evidence suggesting that weight training has any affect on height development. If you've got some research-based evidence I will reconsider my stance but until that point I have never seen anything to suggest otherwise.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 4, 2007 at 9:23 pm #63947

Two more points:
You can add the Burgener kids to the list of above-average height individuals who lifted early on. In fact, they lifted very early and very heavy (at the national / international level in Olympic weightlifting) and have all grown to be as tall as their dad.

Also, I wanted to make something clear…there's plenty of reasons I can think of to not start a pre-teen adolescents on a weight lifting program but stunted growth is not one of them.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 4, 2007 at 9:48 pm #63948

Here's some evidence to refute the myths:

A statement from the Mayo Clinic.

Metcalf JA, Roberts SO. (1993). Strength training and the immature athlete: an overview.
Pediatr Nurs.;19(4):325-32.

The developing musculoskeletal structures of the immature athlete are uniquely
susceptible to injury, particularly at the physes. These growth plates are
present in arm and leg bones, and some may not close until the late teen years.
Early literature suggested that weight training might be inappropriate for these
athletes. However, recent evidence suggests that, properly done,
strength/resistance training may not only be safe, it may also help reduce the
risk of injury for the young athletes. Nurses are often called upon to advise
coaches of formal and community athletic programs, and need to know the
underlying physiology of developing bone and muscle as well as the current
recommendations related to training.

Malina RM. (2006). Weight training in youth-growth, maturation, and safety: an evidence-based
review. Clin J Sport Med.;16(6):478-87.

OBJECTIVE: To review the effects of resistance training programs on pre- and
early-pubertal youth in the context of response, potential influence on growth
and maturation, and occurrence of injury. DESIGN: Evidence-based review.
METHODS: Twenty-two reports dealing with experimental resistance training
protocols, excluding isometric programs, in pre- and early-pubertal youth, were
reviewed in the context of subject characteristics, training protocol,
responses, and occurrence of injury. RESULTS: Experimental programs most often
used isotonic machines and free weights, 2- and 3-day protocols, and 8- and
12-week durations, with significant improvements in muscular strength during
childhood and early adolescence. Strength gains were lost during detraining.
Experimental resistance training programs did not influence growth in height and
weight of pre- and early-adolescent youth, and changes in estimates of body
composition were variable and quite small. Only 10 studies systematically
monitored injuries, and only three injuries were reported. Estimated injury
rates were 0.176, 0.053, and 0.055 per 100 participant-hours in the respective
programs. CONCLUSION: Experimental training protocols with weights and
resistance machines and with supervision and low instructor/participant ratios
are relatively safe and do not negatively impact growth and maturation of pre-
and early-pubertal youth.

Rians CB, Weltman A, Cahill BR, Janney CA, Tippett SR, Katch FI. (1987). Strength training for prepubescent males: is it safe? Am J Sports Med. 1987 Sep-Oct;15(5):483-9.

This study examined the safety of one type of strength training for prepubescent
males. Eighteen males (average age, 8.3 +/- 1.2 years) participated in a 45
min/session, three session/week, 14 week supervised strength training program
with an attendance rate of 91.5%. Concentric work was done almost exclusively.
KinCom analysis showed significant strength gain in this group (P less than
0.05), while an age, sex, and activity matched control group did not gain
strength. Safety was evaluated by injury surveillance, blood pressure and heart
rate monitoring, scintigraphy, and creatine phosphokinase measurement. Effects
on growth and development, flexibility, and motor performance were also
investigated, as these are factors with an impact on sports injury occurrence.
Results showed that in the short term, supervised concentric strength training
results in a low injury rate and does not adversely affect bone, muscle, or
epiphyses; nor does it adversely affect growth, development, flexibility, or
motor performance. As the safety question is multifaceted, this should not lead
to the conclusion that strength training for prepubescents is uniformly safe.
Further research is needed.

ELITETRACK Founder

[star61]

star61 on April 5, 2007 at 1:46 am #63949

Here's some evidence to refute the myths:

A [url=https://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/HQ/01010.html]statement from the Mayo Clinic. [/url]

…
Another example of why anecdotal evidence and seeminly common sense reasoning can lead the masses astray. What may logically seem to be harmful may in fact be beneficial. This thread illustrates the need to include and consider quantitative data and medical studies when they are available.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on April 5, 2007 at 2:58 am #63950

Two more points:
You can add the Burgener kids to the list of above-average height individuals who lifted early on. In fact, they lifted very early and very heavy (at the national / international level in Olympic weightlifting) and have all grown to be as tall as their dad.

Also, I wanted to make something clear…there's plenty of reasons I can think of to not start a pre-teen adolescents on a weight lifting program but stunted growth is not one of them.

do you think there are certain standards that kids should meet before beginning to lifting external loads?

[RunnerMan]

RunnerMan on April 5, 2007 at 9:36 am #63951

[b]Early literature suggested that weight training might be inappropriate for these
athletes. However, recent evidence suggests that, properly done,
strength/resistance training may not only be safe, it may also help reduce the risk of injury for the young athletes.[/b]

…"properly done"… sounds like, to me, theres more to it then you seem to think. Done properly would very much have the potential to include not going heavy, which my whole argument is based upon.

Also, your height mike, did your parents train extensively when they were young, and…(iv g2g, ill continue this l8er)…

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 5, 2007 at 9:57 am #63952

The properly done recommendation holds true for any activity. This would encompass things like appropriate loading, appropriate progressions, correct technique, etc. The loading issue is debatable?  Is a 300 lb squat heavy if one is capable of 400 lb squats (as would be the case with the Burgeners)? As long as the progression is appropriate and the load is within the abilities of both the strength and functional capacity (mainly a soft-tissue issue) of a given athlete I think the load is irrelevant (at least as far as stunting growth goes).

My dad was a competitive athlete but my mom was an active recreational athlete. Neither did heavy weights.

ELITETRACK Founder

[star61]

star61 on April 6, 2007 at 9:44 am #63953

Also, your height mike, did your parents train extensively when they were young, and…(iv g2g, ill continue this l8er)…

That's it!!! Mike, you lack height because your parents trained when they were young, damaging the DNA that controls bone growth, resulting in your slightly less than average height!!! It's that darned genetics stuff again.

[RunnerMan]

RunnerMan on April 6, 2007 at 10:35 am #63954

make fun if you will, but nz's culture is deeply rooted in the idea the weight training shouldn't be started until l8 adolescence, and there are rules forbidding people to weight train publically at a yound age in many instances. sorta like the height restriction for roller coasters. i'm sure there are as many bits of scientiic evidence backing up that it does stunt growth as there are that suggests it dosen't, i'm just to lazy to look so if you people are interested thats your homework assignment, i'v got enough of them already. Everyone who's done research has a prejudice on the issue before research starts, however faint, and thus they'll truly only look to research and gain results that they wish to see.

[star61]

star61 on April 9, 2007 at 1:26 am #63955

make fun if you will, …

Actually, I was injecting a bit of humor about this particular query…

Also, your height mike, did your parents train extensively when they were young, and…(iv g2g, ill continue this l8er)…

While it is within the realm of possibility that lifting weights, or sprinting, or other rigorous exercises might adversely affect a child's development, including their growth plates, what on Earth does Mike's parent's training or not training when they were young have to do with Mike's height? Are you saying that it not only damages the child doing the exercise, but it affects his/her DNA so that the results of this damage are passed on to offspring?

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on April 10, 2007 at 9:36 am #63956

make fun if you will, but nz's culture is deeply rooted in the idea the weight training shouldn't be started until l8 adolescence, and there are rules forbidding people to weight train publically at a yound age in many instances. sorta like the height restriction for roller coasters. i'm sure there are as many bits of scientiic evidence backing up that it does stunt growth as there are that suggests it dosen't, i'm just to lazy to look so if you people are interested thats your homework assignment, i'v got enough of them already. Everyone who's done research has a prejudice on the issue before research starts, however faint, and thus they'll truly only look to research and gain results that they wish to see.

Just because something is widely believed doesn't mean that it is actually true. As I said, I'd love to see scientific evidence refuting the studies I presented. You stated there were some studies to state otherwise….where are they? I'm not close-minded at all, I just ask for evidence based beliefs.

While it is within the realm of possibility that lifting weights, or sprinting, or other rigorous exercises might adversely affect a child's development, including their growth plates, what on Earth does Mike's parent's training or not training when they were young have to do with Mike's height? Are you saying that it not only damages the child doing the exercise, but it affects his/her DNA so that the results of this damage are passed on to offspring?

I have the same questions as star61….as an interesting aside, check out this case study. My wife and I are both below average height. I however slightly taller than my dad and considerably taller than my mom. I started lifting at the age of 12 (under supervision at a YMCA) and got in to it big time. My wife on the other hand is easily the shortest person in her family…9 inches shorter than her dad, 4 inches shorter than her mom, and 10 inches shorter than her brother. She didn't lift a single weight until the age of 19. While a case study….it certainly seems to refute your point.

ELITETRACK Founder

[flow]

flow on April 19, 2007 at 6:52 pm #63957

not to forget the increased growth-hormone release through heavy work : )