Double double not syncing up with TJ PRs

    Posted In: Jumps

        • Participant
          Tom ONeill on December 4, 2008 at 2:03 am #15088

          Hey guys. I’ve been using the double double as a way to train and test my jumpers for some time. I know the double double is supposed to project TJ performance, but I’ve found my athletes double doubles to be superior to their TJ, sometimes significantly. I was wondering if anybody else has found this to be the case?

          Normally there is a discrepancy of about a foot, so I just subtract a foot and its pretty accurate, but I have a girl who’s 07/08 PR was 33’3” who double doubled 36’10” yesterday in flats. She is faster, stronger, and healthier than she was last year, but I would be shocked if she PRed by 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 feet. I’m confident in my coaching, but I’m also realistic.

          Is this a common occurance, and if so does anyone know what the problem may be?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on December 4, 2008 at 4:17 am #74837

          I’ve seen larger discrepancies like that before and there actually not that uncommon but most cases seem to be amongst athletes who are either LJ specialists or TJers with poor speed or elastic abilities. The double-double is much more reliant on starting strength and low-end power than the actual TJ event.

          Note, that it’s probably more accurate to adjust by % rather than an absolute distance. For example, a 1 foot adjustment might be appropriate for a girl jumping 10.5m but for a guy jumping 18m the discrepancy is going to be much larger but still proportionally the same.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          tkaberna on December 4, 2008 at 4:47 am #74843

          I have seen the same problems with my guys as well. I agree with Mike about working on elastic abilities with the athletes that have the biggest discrepencies. That seems to drop the gap a little bit. I found myself doing way too many standing triple jumps and 2 or 4 step approaches without lengthening it soon enough in the year. This created a big difference among my guys with their DD and their actual TJ performance.

        • Participant
          Tom ONeill on December 4, 2008 at 4:55 am #74844

          Good point about adjusting by %. All my men are in the 12.5 to 13 meter range and I only have the one woman, so I guess the 1 foot thing was the result of having similar jumpers. Most of the athletes that show this discrepancy also have a poor second phase, so I assumed it had something to do with the elastic capabilities, like you said. Ironically, the woman I mentioned has a very good second phase and is more of a triple jumper than long jumper.

        • Participant
          Tom ONeill on December 4, 2008 at 4:58 am #74845

          I have seen the same problems with my guys as well. I agree with Mike about working on elastic abilities with the athletes that have the biggest discrepencies. That seems to drop the gap a little bit. I found myself doing way too many standing triple jumps and 2 or 4 step approaches without lengthening it soon enough in the year. This created a big difference among my guys with their DD and their actual TJ performance.

          Very good point. Most of the bounding we do is from a static/standing start as well. We do 5 step jumps every other week (we only have pits 1 day a week), but thats it.

        • Member
          aivala on December 11, 2008 at 4:06 am #75104

          I have seen the same problems with my guys as well. I agree with Mike about working on elastic abilities with the athletes that have the biggest discrepencies. That seems to drop the gap a little bit. I found myself doing way too many standing triple jumps and 2 or 4 step approaches without lengthening it soon enough in the year. This created a big difference among my guys with their DD and their actual TJ performance.

          I have had the same problem this year, started tj’ing arround 12.5 with 6 step, had to quit for a while and when returned just managed 12.7 from a full approach (18 step, best lj is a 7.01 foul).

        • Member
          babojumper on December 16, 2008 at 4:01 am #75221

          I’ve been jumping for a while but am not that good with terminology. What is the double double test?

        • Participant
          Nick Newman on December 16, 2008 at 5:08 am #75224

          During competition times those bounding tests are best done with running strides added. Unless your goal is to simply beat your test mark…

          If your running double double isnt 4-5m better than your standing, then you are lacking elastic power required for triple jump…thats the reason why when you add strides to the triple, you dont really get much better…

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on December 17, 2008 at 6:06 pm #75320

          I’ve been jumping for a while but am not that good with terminology. What is the double double test?

          A double double test is LLRR or RRLL from a 2 footed standing start.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Member
          amtalkov on January 15, 2009 at 2:40 am #76660

          During competition times those bounding tests are best done with running strides added. Unless your goal is to simply beat your test mark…

          If your running double double isnt 4-5m better than your standing, then you are lacking elastic power required for triple jump…thats the reason why when you add strides to the triple, you dont really get much better…

          After about how many strides would you do before the take-off when running in? Full approach?

        • Participant
          Nick Newman on January 15, 2009 at 3:52 am #76661

          i couldn’t find the exact number anywhere from Riztdorf the guy you proposed to 4.5m addage with running strides etc…

          But, from coaches in the UK are very familiar, they say this 4.5m should be improved from no more than 8 running strides IF the athlete has to required ability for it…

          from my experience compared to the standing 4B+J…

          2 running strides = +1.5m
          4 running strides = +2.5m
          6 running strides = +4m
          8 running strides = +4.5m

          Everyone is different though

          Ooops, i just realised we were talking about the double double. I’m talking about 4 bounds and a jump…BUT i suggest it would be the same.

        • Member
          barto on January 16, 2009 at 3:06 am #76713

          I look at double double marks as absolute potential in the TJ rather than an indicator of performance. The technical demands of jumping at speed far out weigh the technical demands of RRLL.

        • Participant
          Nick Newman on January 16, 2009 at 4:24 am #76715

          Can’t be absolute potential because it improves with training and practice…

        • Member
          barto on January 16, 2009 at 7:47 am #76725

          I don’t mean absolute long term potential, but rather a snapshot of that point in time. With A- TJ technique a double/double gives a pretty good snapshot.

        • Participant
          Nick Newman on January 16, 2009 at 8:10 am #76726

          Oh yeah def…i agree with you…

          Would be awesome if there was an exercise that gave you absolute long term potential…

          i would say speed tests are the closest things to that, as most other areas are easier to train

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