Dymaxion Sleep

    Posted In: Blog Discussion

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on July 17, 2007 at 6:03 am #13226

          Here's an interesting article from the Monday, Oct. 11, 1943 issue of Time:Sleep is just a bad habit. So said Socrates and Samuel Johnson, and so for years has thought grey-haired Richard Buckminster Fuller, futurific inventor of the Dymaxion* house (TIME, Aug. 22, 1932), the Dymaxion car and the Dymaxion globe. Fuller made a deliberate attempt to break the sleep habit, with excellent results.

          Continue reading…

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Member
          winnesota on July 17, 2007 at 8:08 am #67977

          Very Intriguing

          # Photographs and electric devices to record movements show that the average sleeper, who changes position at least 40 times during an eight-hour stretch, is quietest in the first two hours, then grows progressively more restless.

          -I go to sleep on my back; wake up on my stomach.

          # At Colgate University sleep investigator Donald A. Laird found that people awakened after four hours' sleep were just as alert, well-coordinated physically and resistant to fatigue as those who slept eight hours (but they did lose in accuracy and concentration). 

          -I feel extremely groggy even when I wake up after 6-7 hours most times(particularly early morning)…

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on July 17, 2007 at 8:17 am #65613

          I've gotten by for most of my adult life on 4.5-6 hours of sleep a night. I definitely know that I feel better with 4.5, 5.5, or 7 hours of sleep than any interval in between that. I've also found that on the rare ocassions that I need to sleep less than 4 hours that I typically feel ok. I know this is unusual but there are quite a few people who are similar.

          Not optimal for most, but indicates there aren't really hard and fast rules that can be applied equally to everyone.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          mortac8 on July 17, 2007 at 8:19 am #65614

          there are a bunch of video logs on youtube of people trying this.  they all look like they haven't slept in 5 about days after day 5

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on July 17, 2007 at 8:22 am #65615

          I once heard that the __________ (insert Eastern Bloc country here) swim team experimented with alternating 2 hours of sleeping with 2 hours of training for 24 hour cycles. This was likely propaganda or urban legend but perhaps it was based on this 'logic'.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on July 17, 2007 at 8:24 am #65616

          I wanted to note that I AM NOT ADVOCATING Dymaxion Sleep….I just thought it might be a thought provoking discussion point, especially given the date of the research.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          mortac8 on July 17, 2007 at 8:26 am #65617

          what do you mean you feel better on 4.5 5.5 or 7hr sleep?  what does this correspond to? sleep cycles?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on July 17, 2007 at 8:49 am #65618

          what do you mean you feel better on 4.5 5.5 or 7hr sleep?  what does this correspond to? sleep cycles?

          Sorry for the misunderstanding….I mean that I feel better with 4.5 hours than 5 or 6 or even 8. I think it's related to 'catching' rather than interrupting my sleep cycles.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Member
          winnesota on July 17, 2007 at 9:06 am #65619

          [quote author="mortac8" date="1184641041"]
          what do you mean you feel better on 4.5 5.5 or 7hr sleep?  what does this correspond to? sleep cycles?

          Sorry for the misunderstanding….I mean that I feel better with 4.5 hours than 5 or 6 or even 8. I think it's related to 'catching' rather than interrupting my sleep cycles.
          [/quote]

          You must be in between REM cycles at those intervals…check this out Mike, you match up perfectly!

          https://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o73/wblhockey14/sleep-cycle-450X264.jpg%5B/img%5D

          It should be known that as one gets older less sleep is needed than compared to when one is younger(I think it's a somewhat negative linear graph starting at around 16 hours for newborns and progressing downwards)

          with that said, everyones sleep needs differ because of a HUGE variety of things

        • Member
          winnesota on July 17, 2007 at 9:12 am #65620

          By the way, I added a poll, I think it will be interesting to see the results from the athletes on this site…

        • Participant
          Josh Hurlebaus on July 17, 2007 at 10:45 am #65621

          I've gotten by for most of my adult life on 4.5-6 hours of sleep a night. I definitely know that I feel better with 4.5, 5.5, or 7 hours of sleep than any interval in between that. I've also found that on the rare ocassions that I need to sleep less than 4 hours that I typically feel ok. I know this is unusual but there are quite a few people who are similar.

          Not optimal for most, but indicates there aren't really hard and fast rules that can be applied equally to everyone.

          The night before I qualified for nationals I got less than 4 hours of intermittent sleep. I would sleep about 30 min, wake up for 10 or so, fall asleep again. That went on all night ( I was sleeping on a floor next to an air conditioner, every time it turned on I woke up). The lack of sleep didn't seem to make any difference at all in my performance.

        • Participant
          mortac8 on July 17, 2007 at 5:00 pm #65622

          Cool graph winnesota!  I always wondered why I seem to wake up about 5hr after going to bed then go back to sleep again.

        • Member
          rice773 on July 17, 2007 at 6:36 pm #65623

          REM cycles become progressively shorter (1.5 hrs at first down to 40min) as the hours pass and they certainly don't end at 7 hours as the graph shows

        • Member
          winnesota on July 17, 2007 at 11:59 pm #65624

          [quote author="mike" date="1184640480"]
          I've gotten by for most of my adult life on 4.5-6 hours of sleep a night. I definitely know that I feel better with 4.5, 5.5, or 7 hours of sleep than any interval in between that. I've also found that on the rare ocassions that I need to sleep less than 4 hours that I typically feel ok. I know this is unusual but there are quite a few people who are similar.

          Not optimal for most, but indicates there aren't really hard and fast rules that can be applied equally to everyone.

          The night before I qualified for nationals I got less than 4 hours of intermittent sleep. I would sleep about 30 min, wake up for 10 or so, fall asleep again. That went on all night ( I was sleeping on a floor next to an air conditioner, every time it turned on I woke up). The lack of sleep didn't seem to make any difference at all in my performance.
          [/quote]

          That is crazy.  I find that most of the time when I get too much sleep I actually tend to do poorer in sports as opposed to getting too few hours of sleep.

        • Member
          winnesota on July 18, 2007 at 12:00 am #65625

          REM cycles become progressively shorter (1.5 hrs at first down to 40min) as the hours pass and they certainly don't end at 7 hours as the graph shows

          Actually, REM sleep starts at a few minutes and progressively gets longer as sleep does(not well represented in graph).  As, you can see in the graph, NREM or Non-REM sleep(stages 1-4) starts at around 90-120 and then gets shorter.

          This graph ends at 7 hours because that is what they choose the sleep period to be, certainly everybody doesn't sleep for 7 hours as this is just an example.

        • Member
          rice773 on July 18, 2007 at 1:52 am #65626

          [quote author="Rice" date="1184677610"]
          REM cycles become progressively shorter (1.5 hrs at first down to 40min) as the hours pass and they certainly don't end at 7 hours as the graph shows

          Actually, REM sleep starts at a few minutes and progressively gets longer as sleep does(not well represented in graph).  As, you can see in the graph, NREM or Non-REM sleep(stages 1-4) starts at around 90-120 and then gets shorter.

          This graph ends at 7 hours because that is what they choose the sleep period to be, certainly everybody doesn't sleep for 7 hours as this is just an example.
          [/quote]
          This is a lovely illustration of how little we know about sleep! You say tomato i say tomato.

        • Member
          winnesota on July 18, 2007 at 1:55 am #65627

          [quote author="Winnesota" date="1184697072"]
          [quote author="Rice" date="1184677610"]
          REM cycles become progressively shorter (1.5 hrs at first down to 40min) as the hours pass and they certainly don't end at 7 hours as the graph shows

          Actually, REM sleep starts at a few minutes and progressively gets longer as sleep does(not well represented in graph).  As, you can see in the graph, NREM or Non-REM sleep(stages 1-4) starts at around 90-120 and then gets shorter.

          This graph ends at 7 hours because that is what they choose the sleep period to be, certainly everybody doesn't sleep for 7 hours as this is just an example.
          [/quote]
          This is a lovely illustration of how little we know about sleep! You say tomato i say tomato.
          [/quote]

          It shows how much we DO know about sleep.  I say tomato you say egg. :bigsmile:  As technology progresses we will only know more…

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on July 19, 2007 at 10:31 pm #65628

          I've always had GREAT workouts after near sleepless nights and have also given some of my best presentations / lectures after very little sleep. This however is not the case for accumulated fatigue / sleeplessness.

          ELITETRACK Founder

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