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    ELITETRACK
    You are at:Home»Forums»Training & Conditioning Discussion»Strength & Conditioning»Eccentric Squats

    Eccentric Squats

    Posted In: Strength & Conditioning

        • Member
          amt1986 on May 4, 2006 at 7:56 pm #11818

          Mike: "While the slow eccentrics that you're speaking of do have some value I was more specifically referring to fast eccentrics under greater loads such as the 110-130% I mentioned. You won't be able to delay the lowering for much more than 1 second but it will much more closely mimic the demands faced in jumping and sprinting. If you were only doing this for a half squat, you could even increase the load 20-30% more."

          It's probably really stupid, but I'm still confused as to what I should be doing if I want to do eccentric squats? I understand why fast, heavy eccentrics would be beneficial, but I'm still confused as to their execution. Are they fast just because eventually, the weight overcomes you? I wouldn't think that you're consciously supposed to allow the weight to fall as fast as possible. Also, when, if at all, should I incorporate slow eccentric squats.

          I'm still recovering from injury and cannot compete for the rest of my school's season, so I am in my offseason if that makes a difference.

          Thanks all

        • Participant
          flow on May 4, 2006 at 9:05 pm #53208

          hey there.  looks to me like you should take a weight that you can slow down for round about a second:

          Mike:  You won't be able to delay the lowering for much more than 1 second but it will much more closely mimic the demands faced in jumping and sprinting. "

          if its not heavy enough youl be able to hold it longer,  if its too heavy ill crash all over you or something.
          dont know if its beneficial for you,  depends on the injury i guess.
          but eccentric movements give you a good leep in strength.  wish i had some guys to help me withem.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on May 4, 2006 at 9:14 pm #53209

          I do them how Flow suggested. Load the bar to a supramaximal (concentric) % and then resist as hard as you can. The heavier the load the faster the eccentric phase. What you want to avoid is a temporary protective muscle shut down which I've found can happen under very high loads.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          glitterman on May 5, 2006 at 8:25 pm #53210

          this is a very interesting area of training as both my training partner and myself have been working a lot with eccentric hamstring and squat exercises. we have been squatting and then finishing off with an eccentric single leg squat and russian hamstrings. to do the eccentric single leg squats, we have been using a hammer machine in the gym. it allows us to catch at the bottom so there is no chance of failure (or crushing yourself upon failure). we now can work the eccentric phase all the way into almost a full squat position on a single leg. we generally take the weight up with both legs and then take it down with one. i have been loading it up fairly heavy and consistantly in the gym and have felt great gains in strength immediately. my hamstrings and gluts just feel so unbelievably strong since putting these in my program. i have suffered every season with chronic hamstring problems and obviously they have been very weak eccentricly. since then, i have been able to train as hard/fast as i like and my hamstrings have held up fine!

          We have just been doing 3×4 on each leg. Also lowering it when we get heavier. Is there a particular way in which we should be structuring this? Generally we squat and reverse leg press and then do our eccentrics. What way of structuring them is best??

          This is the machine we use:
          https://fitnessplus.com/Equipment/Selectorized/HammerMTSVSquat.jpg
          https://www.houstontexans.com/news_images/fitness/Hammer-V-squat.jpg

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on May 31, 2006 at 9:03 am #53211

          We have just been doing 3×4 on each leg. Also lowering it when we get heavier. Is there a particular way in which we should be structuring this? Generally we squat and reverse leg press and then do our eccentrics. What way of structuring them is best??

          Thanks for sharing your ideas. When I'm using heavily loaded exercises I do the eccentric work following a build up of concentric sets to a load that is close to what we'll use for the eccentric work. For example, I might to several sets of squats with increasing loads and then move to eccentric work with squats afterwards.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          flow on May 31, 2006 at 9:21 am #53212

          mike,  i know you arent a fan of legpressing,  but would eccentric work on them be ok? (why arent leg presses suited for us anyhow,  fex as addition to squats?)  thx

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on June 1, 2006 at 9:02 am #53213

          I rarely say never to any exercise and I think leg presses could be used for eccentric work. In general I'd prefer to use exercises where the feet are on the ground and the athlete is moving his / her own body weight as is the case in all real sporting movements. Using the leg press frequently can create imbalances between leg and lumbar strength.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          glitterman on June 1, 2006 at 2:56 pm #53214

          Since the last post I made on the "Custom Eccentric Squat" that we have in our program, I have since lowered the reps and have increased the weight at which I lift in the eccentric phase. I now do not go over 4 reps and frequently rep out in the 2-3 range. With testing however, this definately taxes the CNS greater. I have found that it does not create as much tendon damage. Previously the 4 rep range appeared to cause tendon soreness and damage. I feel it is just too much time under tension! Could there be a scientific explanation as to this?

          Going by feel and testing, eccentric squats and eccentric hamstring exercises appear to fry the CNS at top speed. As soon as a session was skipped, top speed runs were suddenly so much faster, however it does not seem to hinder block clearance and 1st 20m as much.

          Long recovery works best. We use approx 5min minimum. The aim for us is to work to complete failure! Technically we aim to keep our back up against the back rest as this keep the hips straight and lengthens the hamstring.

          I have a question as to when you would tend to take these exercises out as far as a triple periodization program is concerned? Since it effects the top speed phase, would it be an idea in spp2, to use it once a week at the end of the week so you have the weekend to recover?

          As for eccentric hamstring exercises, has anyone got feedback as to what phase of training, it appears to effect?

          An update with my eccentric squat, it is now up to 125kg on single leg squat, as is my regular full squat off the same number of reps. It has taken me up to 2 weeks to refresh off of eccentrics. The increase in speed is simply amazing when you refresh. I'm talking about a .30-.40 differencial over 60m!

          In regards to the Leg Press Eccentric, I have been told that Ronald Pognon does this and is currently in the phase. Hence his somewhat slow times as of late (martinique and co.).

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on December 29, 2006 at 10:40 am #53215

          have any of guys done eccentric squats with lighter loads for ex: 3x4x70%, you would take 10sec to reach the bottom?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on December 29, 2006 at 11:01 am #53216

          I have just as an experiment. 70% was too high. Also, it's very tough to control the movement for 10s precisely…..it's very easy to get to the low point at 8s or 11s. When the time duration gets that long it seems to be a little more difficult.

          I didn't really like the effects of it. It seemed to have a decent metabolic affect but this was outweighed by the soreness that accompanied it. I prefer to use heavier loads and shorter times when working on eccentric strength.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on December 29, 2006 at 11:05 am #53217

          I have just as an experiment. 70% was too high. Also, it's very tough to control the movement for 10s precisely…..it's very easy to get to the low point at 8s or 11s. When the time duration gets that long it seems to be a little more difficult.

          I didn't really like the effects of it. It seemed to have a decent metabolic affect but this was outweighed by the soreness that accompanied it. I prefer to use heavier loads and shorter times when working on eccentric strength.

          how heavy of a load you would use and for what time frame, i got the above protocol from a article i read by john cissik.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on December 29, 2006 at 11:09 am #53218

          I think we were using 4-5 sets of 5-6 reps and we didn't go past 65% on a strict 10s count (not count to 10 in 5 seconds).

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on December 29, 2006 at 11:14 am #53219

          I think we were using 4-5 sets of 5-6 reps and we didn't go past 65% on a strict 10s count (not count to 10 in 5 seconds).

          i was thinking keep the time no more then 5sec, the weight somewhere btw 50-65% and similar reps 4-6. whats the main benefit behind this type of work?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on December 29, 2006 at 11:18 am #53220

          At 50-65% on a 5s eccentric I think you'll find it WAAAAAY too easy. I use eccentric squats about twice a year with the workout typically looking something like 5 x 4, with the last 3 being @ 80% w/ 4s eccentric. I've had some athletes work up to 90% at 3s. This can quickly fry an athlete though.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on December 29, 2006 at 11:23 am #53221

          At 50-65% on a 5s eccentric I think you'll find it WAAAAAY too easy. I use eccentric squats about twice a year with the workout typically looking something like 5 x 4, with the last 3 being @ 80% w/ 4s eccentric. I've had some athletes work up to 90% at 3s. This can quickly fry an athlete though.

          EASY, dont know about that, im playing around with some numbers right and 65% would put me in the high 300's. also i would perform this work during the season on thursday and have meets on sat – so i dont want to be too sore. so whats the benefit of this type of training???

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on December 29, 2006 at 11:35 am #53222

          The absolute load shouldn't matter THAT much….in my experience the % is a better indicator of intensity.

          I would recommend not doing them on Thursday. While I typically wouldn't use them in-season, on the rare occassions when I have, I've always had better success doing them no later than 3 days before a meet (Mon-Wed).

          I use them as a means of developing strength by switching up the stimuli. I also use it as a lead-in to supra-maximal fast-eccentric work which I've found useful for enhancing leg stiffness.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          saltojump5 on December 29, 2006 at 11:37 am #53223

          Mike: "While the slow eccentrics that you're speaking of do have some value I was more specifically referring to fast eccentrics under greater loads such as the 110-130% I mentioned. You won't be able to delay the lowering for much more than 1 second but it will much more closely mimic the demands faced in jumping and sprinting. If you were only doing this for a half squat, you could even increase the load 20-30% more."

          I do them how Flow suggested. Load the bar to a supramaximal (concentric) % and then resist as hard as you can. The heavier the load the faster the eccentric phase. What you want to avoid is a temporary protective muscle shut down which I've found can happen under very high loads.

          I'm confused. I've done eccentric squats at 150% of my concentric maximum, resisting as hard as I could (at first). I waited there for what seemed forever at a quarter bend in the knee. Then I allowed the weight to lower, just to speed things up a bit. It still took about 10 seconds, I think, for it to come down. It really only came in about a second as I got closer to a 90 degree bend in the knee. I did 5-6 total reps of this in a single session, with 2-3 minutes of recovery between each rep. I did this for about 3 sessions across 2 weeks. Am I off here? Why did it take so long for it to come down? My legs felt like they were being electrocuted in patches for about a week and a half thereafter when I tried to run.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on December 29, 2006 at 11:44 am #53224

          If it's complexed like John has it the facilitory affect could be greater than regular squats.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on December 29, 2006 at 11:48 am #53225

          Saltojump5-
          The first 30 degrees will be quite easy. After that things should get fast. I've found if you really push the loads high enough to make those first 30 degrees fast that you'll get muscle shutdown and the weight will free fall with no eccentric force application.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on December 29, 2006 at 11:48 am #53226

          If it's complexed like John has it the facilitory affect could be greater than regular squats.

          they are not complexed.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on December 29, 2006 at 11:50 am #53227

          In John's program they are. I'll bet that's one of the reason that the %s are lower.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on December 29, 2006 at 11:54 am #53228

          In John's program they are. I'll bet that's one of the reason that the %s are lower.

          his major complex day is mon and on thur its very minor.

          mon:
          pause squats complex with squat jumps

          thur:
          ecc squats no complex

          his goal during the season is to develop power and thats why hes also using lighter weight. so what do u think about those ecc squats on thursday?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on December 29, 2006 at 12:01 pm #53229

          Page 4, Week 2 day 1; eccentric squats are complexed with jump squats.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          saltojump5 on December 29, 2006 at 12:03 pm #53230

          Saltojump5-
          The first 30 degrees will be quite easy. After that things should get fast. I've found if you really push the loads high enough to make those first 30 degrees fast that you'll get muscle shutdown and the weight will free fall with no eccentric force application.

          Ok, thanks. That's good to know. Both my sister and I had big gains with sprints and jumps performance about 2 weeks after, when we finally bounced back. I wasn't going to do them this year, both because I didn't know if I was doing them right, and also because an Olympic weightlifting guru said "never" to the idea of doing 'em…his reasoning being something to the effect of it breaking the SSC, training slow systems (even at 1 sec. eccentrics) compared to the demands of jumping, etc. I thought I had good results with it, however. Would this type of extreme overload eccentrics still be valuable if someone's eccentric capabilities were already very good? Sorry. I didn't mean to hijack your guys' conversation. 

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on December 29, 2006 at 12:04 pm #53231

          Page 4, Week 2 day 1; eccentric squats are complexed with jump squats.

          my bad thats his peaking phase where he drop the pause squats and have one ecc day and one day spilt squat day. what do u think about the overall vol

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on December 29, 2006 at 12:09 pm #53232

          I'd personally never use them during a peaking phase…the negatives (soreness, low stimuli on both eccentric and concentric phase) don't outweigh the positives (increased time under tension, potential to increase strength via varied stimuli).

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on December 29, 2006 at 12:13 pm #53233

          I'd personally never use them during a peaking phase…the negatives (soreness, low stimuli on both eccentric and concentric phase) don't outweigh the positives (increased time under tension, potential to increase strength via varied stimuli).

          i agree, his overall program look pretty solid besides the ecc squats and single leg ol's. another thing that stood out is hes working with women so they may be able to handle that since they are not as strong.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on December 29, 2006 at 12:30 pm #53234

          Yeah. John knows what he's doing. We've met at a couple coaches ed schools. He's also a member of the board. He posts infrequently but he pops in every now and then. I'll PM him and see if he wants to chime in.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          Nick Newman on December 29, 2006 at 4:04 pm #53235

          Man, just read this, ive been using the single leg slow eccentric to work on leg stiffness, maybe thats why im too low when i sprint and take off…

          im still confused as to the best way to do these fast eccentric squats though. I use the leg press, and lower with one leg, raise with two.

          My squat best this year was 525 (130degrees) so for me eccentrically squat like 700 lime im supposed to, i cant imagine doing it. I dont think i have two spotters that could lift it back up.

          Could you tell me what best way of doing this exercise please…

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on December 29, 2006 at 6:40 pm #53236

          Man, just read this, ive been using the single leg slow eccentric to work on leg stiffness, maybe thats why im too low when i sprint and take off…

          im still confused as to the best way to do these fast eccentric squats though. I use the leg press, and lower with one leg, raise with two.

          My squat best this year was 525 (130degrees) so for me eccentrically squat like 700 lime im supposed to, i cant imagine doing it. I dont think i have two spotters that could lift it back up.

          Could you tell me what best way of doing this exercise please…

          easy, dont do them..

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on December 29, 2006 at 11:45 pm #53237

          Man, just read this, ive been using the single leg slow eccentric to work on leg stiffness, maybe thats why im too low when i sprint and take off…

          im still confused as to the best way to do these fast eccentric squats though. I use the leg press, and lower with one leg, raise with two.

          My squat best this year was 525 (130degrees) so for me eccentrically squat like 700 lime im supposed to, i cant imagine doing it. I dont think i have two spotters that could lift it back up.

          Could you tell me what best way of doing this exercise please…

          Am I understanding you that you typically 1/4 squat (130 degrees) and want to do the fast eccentric loading in that same range of motion?

          If so, your best options are probably single leg (ok at that depth) or leg press. You're right that at that depth you'll need to be working with very high loads. Using one leg at a time will take some of the load off your back. This could actually be one use where a smith machine could work….it would provide greater stability so the expression of force by the single leg wouldn't be affected as much by instability and the range of motion is so limited that the linear tracking of the bar wouldn't be that much of an issue.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          jcissik on December 30, 2006 at 1:23 am #53238

          I hope that the holidays are going well for everyone.

          A couple of quick thoughts and then I can discuss eccentric/pause squats in a little more detail.

          First, I personally am not a fan of partial ROM movements, especially when combined with very heavy weights.  It works for some people, and that's fine for them, but I don't use them – but that's my opinion.  It's a big world and everything works for someone, it's just not a tool that I like to use.  So, I don't like 1/4 squats even though I know a lot of t&f coaches swear by them.  Yes you can do a lot more weight, but I find that form breaks down during those 700 pound 1/4 squats and I've seen more back injuries from those than I care to think about.

          Second, I don't like situations with supermaximal amounts of weight either – so eccentric squats with 150% of your maximum squat.  Again, we all have good intensions but form breaks down too badly.

          Third, in my opinion the weight room is a terrible place for sport specificity.  The weight room is a great place to provide you with the physical foundation that you need for t&f, but you must then transfer it to the track.  This means that you won't duplicate speed of movement, angles, etc. in the weight room and it's pointless to try (my opinion).

          Typically with college t&f athletes, we have a general phase that runs into October.  A specific phase that runs into December/January.  Pre comp that runs January and into some of Feb (yes we're competing in indoors in Feb, but we're not peaking yet).

          Now, this depends upon the level of athlete, but general phase focuses on fundamental exercises and strength/technique in those exercises.  Lots of Olympic lift fundamentals (lifts from the hang), lifts off two feet (squats, RDL's, etc.), that sort of thing.  Specific phase, for me, begins to peak strength and to apply it a little more to the event.  Having said that, it's still a learning phase – which means we begin introducing things like eccentric/pause squats to the athlete.  Those exercises aren't heavy yet (b/c the athlete is learning) and they aren't complexed with anything yet (b/c we're not peaking yet in terms of event performance).

          I find that athletes have trouble transferring weight room strength to the track.  Some of this requires a good t&f coach to help this occur, some of this is because athletes have trouble connecting the two mentally.  So they may have a great back squat, but be unable to maintain their posture well on footstrike.  I like eccentric/pause lifts as a way to help train this.  But I don't like 100%+ lifts for reasons I just mentioned.  I find that if these are done properly, they are extremely fatiguing (i.e. form breaks down) – which is not something you want to combine with too much weight. 

          The other side to both these lifts (eccentric and pause) is that there is a slow descent (or a hold in the bottom position), but this is to be followed by an explosive ascent.  Again, just like with sprinting/jumping/Olympic lifting we don't want to use too much weight, with bad technique, combined with too much fatigue because we teach the athlete to be slow and lack explosiveness.

          Remember, you cannot just add cool exercise into your programs on a whim.  You may want to do complexes, but you have to remember that my athletes have spent years building up to that point and learning the exercises.  Everything has to be introduced at a lower intensity so that the athlete can learn the proper technique.

          I don't buy the soreness argument from eccentric lifts.  As I mentioned to someone privately, it's one exercise of 4-6, it's not like the entire workout is based on eccentric exercises.  Plus I feel that the athletes will adapt if it's introduced at lower intensity (usually around 60% when I start them off on these) and then gradually progresses.

          An important thing to realize is that everyone approaches training differently, whether it's Mike, myself, or a guru.  These different approaches often work for the individual coach because of who the coach is – my personality let's me do things a little differently than other coaches.  I once heard Boo talk at a clinic and I loved his response when an audience member was grilling him on why he was training his athletes the way he was.  He basically said (and I'm paraphrasing heavily): "Hey, you invited me to talk about what I do with my athletes.  If you don't like what you hear then don't do it, but this is what I do…"  There's a lot of ways to do this, and they all work for someone. 

          Sorry that this is a rambling post, but it is the holidays 🙂

          Feel free to email me privately at: jcissik@yahoo.com or jcissik@twu.edu if you have any specific questions.

          Respectfully;
          John Cissik

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on December 30, 2006 at 3:40 am #53239

          Thanks for the help Coach, but I have more questions?

          1: the lifts in the article are those the only lifts you used during the season or would you also work in things like jump squats etc?

          2: i understand your reasoning behind 1 leg ol's but do you think the benefit is greater then what you could achieve with a two legged lift? for example the balance aspect of the lift.

          3: with these workouts what kind of volume are you doing on the track with the accel, max v?

          4: anaerobic capacity would that be more like int tempo in your program?

          5: since you are doing complex work in the strength room, would you also perform plyos on the track – hurdle hop, bounds etc?

        • Participant
          jcissik on December 30, 2006 at 8:28 am #53240

          I've tried to answer your questions below:
          1: the lifts in the article are those the only lifts you used during the season or would you also work in things like jump squats etc?

          <<The article you are refering to is actually an older one.  My approach to training evolves and I learn from each year and from each group of athletes.  The article was written showing a sample week from each phase, every week is different.  I do tons of variations of exercises, nothing is sacred.<<

          2: i understand your reasoning behind 1 leg ol's but do you think the benefit is greater then what you could achieve with a two legged lift? for example the balance aspect of the lift.
          <<1-legged begin on one leg, but end up in a split (i.e. on both legs).  So you are using one leg to perform the triple extension (which I think is extremely valuable as only one leg touches the ground at a time during a sprint) but landing on two.  Clearly they are more beneficial to jumpers with the penultimate step and throwers that block on one side, which is why they are not over-emphasized with sprinters.  Note that in any given training session, if a 1-legged lift is done on a given day it is balanced with 2-legged lifts (for example, 1-legged cleans are followed by clean pulls off both legs or followed by back squats off both legs, etc.).  Balance is a learned quality.  After 6 months of split squats, split cleans, etc. (all of which lead up to these exercises) balance should be pretty good.<<

          3: with these workouts what kind of volume are you doing on the track with the accel, max v?
          <<Weight room is only supplementary, it should only take 30-45 minutes of time (my opinion) regardless of the phase.  I rarely do more than 4-6 exercises, unless it's a circuit.  In-season work is about maintaining fitness (on the track) and addressing specific deficiencies.  So it's a more individual thing.  For example, you might need to work on getting out of the blocks more explosively while I might need to work on being able to maintain my speed.  The volume on strength training is a lot less than many people advocate, it takes some people adjusting to this.  Having said this, I'm not a big fan of too much volume on the speed side either.  200-1000 meters (200ish or less for accel, 200-1000 for max V depending upon distances, etc.) depending on the athlete, their needs, and where they are (clearly doing less for lower level athletes).  Incidentally, the less is better approach is hard for strength and conditioning coaches to understand in the weight room and in terms of speed training.>>

          4: anaerobic capacity would that be more like int tempo in your program?
          <<I don't overdo the speed endurance-related work.  Some of our coaches like a lot of it in the off-season and then wonder about the shin splint, knee, hamstring, groin, and ankle injuries with the sprinters.  Again, everyone does this differently.  I think incorprating some type of speed endurance with up to 50% more than the longest competition sprint for 2-6 quality reps is fine, but I much prefer to focus on accel/maxV/explosiveness/technqiue for short sprinters.<<

          5: since you are doing complex work in the strength room, would you also perform plyos on the track – hurdle hop, bounds etc?
          <<Tons of shin splint prevention work, which includes some low level hops.  Bounds definitely.  I'm waiting to find a situation where I can take enough weight equipment outside to combine it with track work.  For example, split cleans + block starts, one-legged cleans + bounds, things like that.  As I indicated in the roundtable on plyometrics in the last Track Coach, I'm real cautious with plyos and don't use them as much as others do.<<

          Hope this answers your questions adequately.
          Respectfully;
          John Cissik

        • Participant
          utfootball4 on December 30, 2006 at 9:03 am #53241

          thanks for taking the time and explaining your training methods.  I'm curious how do you achieve 1000m of true speed work in a session bc that would be alot of sprints in the 10-70m range.  also for your sprinters i would assume  you follow a short to long setup?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on December 31, 2006 at 1:04 pm #53242

          First, I personally am not a fan of partial ROM movements, especially when combined with very heavy weights.  It works for some people, and that's fine for them, but I don't use them – but that's my opinion.  It's a big world and everything works for someone, it's just not a tool that I like to use.  So, I don't like 1/4 squats even though I know a lot of t&f coaches swear by them.  Yes you can do a lot more weight, but I find that form breaks down during those 700 pound 1/4 squats and I've seen more back injuries from those than I care to think about.

          I've actually found the same thing. I only do partial ROM squats about 1 cycle a year and they are always supplemented with deep squats in the same session. When I do use the partial ROM stuff, I prefer to do it more elastically and limit the load to no more than 120% of max full squat.

          Second, I don't like situations with supermaximal amounts of weight either – so eccentric squats with 150% of your maximum squat.  Again, we all have good intensions but form breaks down too badly.

          As I said above, I've only approached that one time and I really didn't like it. As with the partial ROM stuff I typically stay in the realm 105-115% for supramaximal work. At these loads I haven't noticed any technical detioration for eccentric work however all of these techniques are things I reserve for athletes with at least 3 years of serious training. In fact, research evidence suggests this is actually the strength capacity for eccentric force production. That is, what we are calling maximal is really a reference to an athlete's concentric maximal strength….there eccentric maximal force capabilities are actually up to 25% higher. As a result, I think it's perfectly safe to use loads that are considerably (though reasonably) above the concentric maximal load. In fact, because of the differential between concentric and eccentric maximal strength capabilities (with eccentric being so much stronger) I would actually think that using 60-65% of concentric maximal load wouldn't be sufficient to provide an adequate stimuli.Using a load that is 60-75% of concentric max for eccentric lift work would actually be somewhere in the neighborhood of using a load that is about 50% of eccentric maximal load.

          ELITETRACK Founder

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