[hscoach]

hscoach on March 17, 2007 at 10:42 pm #12884

for a hs team what would it look like? something like this?

march (spp)
M-accels complexed with resisted sled pulls /weights/mb throws/mobility (200-350m volume)
T-ext tempo (pool or bike or track); 1000m volume
W-accel tech/"floating tech" (sub max)/baylor 150's (easy-medium-harder) 2-6×150 w/ 2' recovery b/w reps
R-gs circuits or ext tempo
F-maxv (95%fly-ins)/weights/mb throws/mobility (200-400m volume)

late march into april (pre-comp)
M-accels and maxv/weights/throws/mobility
T-ext tempo
W-int tempo blending into sp end II/weights
R-gs circuits or ext tempo
F-day before meet routine (full wu/starts/mb throws)/ short but intense
S-compete

may (comp and championship meets)
M-ext tempo (dropping volume and preparing for Tuesday's workout)
T-maxv/speed endurance/wts (1000m volume; dropping to 500m by last week of may)
W-recovery and restoration
R-400 tech work; race plan execution (working at race pace) (90-93% intensity)
F-day before meet routine
S-compete

what do you think? go ahead and let me have it. in the past i have done less accels in march and more ext/int tempo. also, we have usually only gone to the weight room 1-2 times per week in march, but this year we are aiming for 2-3 weight workouts/week in march and 1-2 in april and may.

[Beau Brehm]

Beau Brehm on March 18, 2007 at 12:32 am #63620

For your Thursday 400m tech work at race pace what exactly do you do? Working at race pace two days before the meet probably isn't a good idea, as it might take longer than that for your athletes to recover.

[hscoach]

hscoach on March 18, 2007 at 3:22 am #63621

point taken concerning "race pace" two days away from a big meet. we will probably go hard on tuesday and taper the rest of the week. my biggest concern is now (mid march). i want to know what would be the best way to transition into the endurance side of the equation. should we follow this progression: int tempo>>>special 2>>>special 1>>>speed endurance? in the past we have used the early track meets to work on specific endurance (first 400 usually pretty painful) and the results have been pretty good (our 400 runners usually drop 1-2 seconds during may). but i have always wondered if we could have dropped another half second with an earlier devotion to specific endurance.

[sbones]

sbones on March 18, 2007 at 7:11 am #63622

I'm following something very similar with my group.

My question – why go from intensive tempo to special end 2?

It seems to me (and what I'm thinking of doing) that the more natural progression is to move from intensive tempo to special end 1.  This week, my long sprinters will finish a 3 week meso of intensive tempo – 5 x 180 @ 90%  For our next three week cycle, I'm thinking of starting with split runs of 4×120+60 with full recoveries

[hscoach]

hscoach on March 18, 2007 at 7:22 am #63623

why go from intensive tempo to spec 2? that was my question to the board. i don't know? i can tell you that i am not comfortable just "jumping into" speed endurance without some type of acclimation. it just seems risky. what did you do before your 5×180 intensive tempo work?

[star61]

star61 on March 19, 2007 at 12:13 am #63624

why go from intensive tempo to spec 2? that was my question to the board. i don't know? i can tell you that i am not comfortable just "jumping into" speed endurance without some type of acclimation. it just seems risky. what did you do before your 5×180 intensive tempo work?

My understanding is that Spec. End II isn't necessarily more "intense" than Spec. End I, both are done at near maximum (> 90%-95%) of personal best. The primary difference is the distance, Spec. End. I is reps of 150m-300m, more for the short sprinter running the 100m and/or 200m, while Spec End. II, 300m-600m reps, is for longer sprinters who run the 200m and 400m.

For those that do Intensive Tempo (not all coaches advocate IT), the purpose is in fact to prepare the athlete for Special Endurance training. If they have been doing IT training, up to 90% of PB, then it should not be a huge shock to run Spec. End., 90% – 100% of PB, if reps are kept low and adequate recovery is taken between reps.

[sbones]

sbones on March 20, 2007 at 9:40 am #63625

why go from intensive tempo to spec 2? that was my question to the board. i don't know? i can tell you that i am not comfortable just "jumping into" speed endurance without some type of acclimation. it just seems risky. what did you do before your 5×180 intensive tempo work?

The intensive tempo was preceded by both extensive tempo and short speed endurance with incomplete recoveries.  The extensive tempo was up to 3000m for the 400 group and we made sure they were right at 75% for the last couple of weeks.  The short speed endurance was sets of 60m sprints in which they accelerated to 30-35 meters and then held their speed for the balance of the rep.  This combination had them ready for the intensive tempo, which I started out at 5×150 -> 5×165 -> 5×180 – all at the same pace and all with very short, 2.5 min recoveries.

And btw, the pace of our intensive tempo is meant to match the come home/2nd 200 pace of their goal time in the 400.  For example, we have two guys who are aiming for 49.5, which would have a come home 200 of 26.0 and so today they aimed for 23.4 on their reps.

And also, HS coach and others, if your athletes are racing regularly, do you think that the races, especially if they include the 400 and 4×400 in their program can be enough to handle the SpEnd2 training needs?  That's what I'm thinking about right now.  We'll be doing dual meets on Thursdays and Invites on Saturdays for 4 of the next five weeks and so I can only see them doing one hard training day a week, and some weeks not even that.  Since they'll be having a heavy lactic experience on competition days, I'm thinking we only want to work on speed endurance/SpEnd1 on that one training day.

[ex400]

ex400 on March 20, 2007 at 9:57 pm #63626

Are you saying that they will run both the 400 and a relay leg on both Thursdays and Saturdays?  That seems like a lot to me. 

[hscoach]

hscoach on March 21, 2007 at 1:09 am #63627

s. bones:

thanks for clearing that up (prior training to prepare for the 5×180). your program seems very logical and well planned. your intensive tempo workout sounds familiar. is it related to the kitkat thread from the cf board? we have used a variation of that workout in the past. but this year we are going to try the 6×200 w/ 2' walk/jog recovery at 80%. week 2 we will bump the intensity to 85% and then 90%(around race pace) the third week. by then we should be pretty well acclimated to intense 400m training. what do you think? am i on the right track. our kids have a pretty good ext tempo base (2000m/session) under their belt with short sprint accelerations and "floating fly-ins on opposite days.

as for using competition for Sp. End 2? amen. that makes sense to me. two competitive 400's at a track meet seems to fit into that category. so i am planning to use intensive tempo to get them ready for spec 2 (early meets).

[hscoach]

hscoach on March 21, 2007 at 1:15 am #63628

star61:

coaches who do not use IT in their 400m program would be following a short to long program? am i right? my jumpers who also run the 400 will follow such a program. can you give me some help or am i barking up the wrong tree. in the past i have just used the meets to train the jumper/400 types – but they usually suffer down the homestretch. how can i prepare them for the 400 without sapping power from their jumping ability? thanks.

[star61]

star61 on March 21, 2007 at 10:37 am #63629

star61:

coaches who do not use IT in their 400m program would be following a short to long program? am i right? my jumpers who also run the 400 will follow such a program. can you give me some help or am i barking up the wrong tree. in the past i have just used the meets to train the jumper/400 types – but they usually suffer down the homestretch. how can i prepare them for the 400 without sapping power from their jumping ability? thanks.

Generally, from what I've seen, but I'm no expert. You already know of kitkat, he's infinitely more qualified to answer that than I am.

[sbones]

sbones on March 21, 2007 at 6:44 pm #63630

thanks for clearing that up (prior training to prepare for the 5×180). your program seems very logical and well planned. your intensive tempo workout sounds familiar. is it related to the kitkat thread from the cf board? we have used a variation of that workout in the past. but this year we are going to try the 6×200 w/ 2' walk/jog recovery at 80%. week 2 we will bump the intensity to 85% and then 90%(around race pace) the third week. by then we should be pretty well acclimated to intense 400m training. what do you think? am i on the right track. our kids have a pretty good ext tempo base (2000m/session) under their belt with short sprint accelerations and "floating fly-ins on opposite days.

as for using competition for Sp. End 2? amen. that makes sense to me. two competitive 400's at a track meet seems to fit into that category. so i am planning to use intensive tempo to get them ready for spec 2 (early meets).

You're right.  Our 5 x 180 is an adaptation of KitKat's 5-6 x 200 w/ 2 min recoveries, which I figured that was too intense for HS kids.  I also didn't want them having to run a different pace each week, which is why we made the progression in distance rather than time.  I also love the way the workout prepares the kids mentally.  If they can bring home the fifth rep on the number, it gives them a lot of confidence to really attack the first half of the 400.

And btw, the extensive tempo was really important prep for this work out.  The kids who were right on the number for the ext tempo nailed the 5 x 180 on Monday.  The one's who messed around with the ext. tempo – not so much.

[hscoach]

hscoach on March 22, 2007 at 7:35 pm #63631

we adapted the workout as well – by dropping the intensity. we haven't put in the same amount of ext tempo work that you have. so we used yesterdays session to ease them into 400 training. next week we will revisit the 6×200 workout and increase the intensity. my question to you is how long can you keep this workout in your weekly plan without it going stale. i was thinking of doing it once per week for three weeks. week 1 intensity = 80%; week 2 intensity = 85%; week 3 intensity = 85-90%. 

[sbones]

sbones on March 22, 2007 at 8:39 pm #63632

my question to you is how long can you keep this workout in your weekly plan without it going stale. i was thinking of doing it once per week for three weeks. week 1 intensity = 80%; week 2 intensity = 85%; week 3 intensity = 85-90%. 

We used it three times 5 x 150 -> 5 x 165 -> 5 x 180.  And I think we're done with it.  Ideally, I'd like to use it 4-5 weeks until they're nailed all five reps or perhaps until the sub 50/sub 58 kids could handle 5 x 200 for the confidence building at least.  But given the constraints of our shortened schedule, I think three weeks is all we can give it.

My plan now, which is dependent on how they compete today and Saturday, is to replace that day with Sp.End 1, and probably start with split runs @ 95-100%, something like 4-5 x 120+60 with full recoveries.  Or, I'm thinking of a hybred workout of a full 300 with an incomplete, 6 min recovery, followed by 70+60+50 with incomplete recoveries

[hscoach]

hscoach on March 22, 2007 at 10:56 pm #63633

we seem to be on the same page. i will get back to you later.

[hscoach]

hscoach on March 23, 2007 at 12:41 am #63634

how fast did your sub 50 kids run their 180's? were you able to stick to the recovery times?