[nian]

nian on October 21, 2006 at 12:56 am #12284

Hey all,

Been an active lurker around here, CF's forum and assorted vertical jump forums. I read alot about sprint kind of training during the summer, about (for example) fast twitch and slow twitch and OLs and what impact they have on the CNS and muscle fiber recruitment (I'm saying this just to let you know where I'm at, not to brag with fancy terms), so hopefully I have a base knowledge.

So where to start? I guess you'll want some stats first:

Sport: Basketball
Age: 16
Height:6 feet
Weight:161 pounds

Chins: (bodyweight): 15 (I've trained for this. At the start of the summer I could only do 3)
Dips (bodyweight): 19 (Again, could only do about 6
Squat: I do 3 x 10 x 100 pounds. I guess my 1RPM would lie around 140ish.
Bench: 3 x 10 x 95. 1RPM would be somewhere between 120-130
Military press: Nothing to write home about :smilegrin:
Deadlift: Not tried it yet, but will.

Well then now that we've got that over with, let me tell you about my situation. I've just recently begun weightlifting once a week, doing it as a complement to basketball, so that may explain my "weakness" at the moment.

In terms of athletisism:

I'm very, very clearly a mesomorph, but somehow less muscular persons sometimes outsprint me etc, making me wonder if it's non-functional-just-looks-type of muscle. Not to say I'm a bodybuilding prodigy, because I'm not, but 19/20 I'm more muscular than any non-weight training guy of my age. What to do about this issue? I'm not even close to the base strength needed to begin plyos (1.5 x bodyweight in squat if I've got it right).

My upperbody is very stable and pretty strong, but not enough. Military press, deadlift, chins, dips and benchpresses.

Core is mostly taken care of. I've had problems with my back before but now it's 99 % handled. Arguably the strongest part of my body. Advice is of course still appreciated.

My lowerbody is above average, but nothing special. I'm trying to change that to the better with squats and deadlifts. Some things I've noticed when I'm jumping and running around during basketball practices:

I have a very explosive jump off two legs, but I don't come up that high. I can bound around at about the same height 2-3 times in a row with split second touches to the floor but my max height is only slightly average. Still, it's a  very advantegous trait for rebounding.

To say it plainly, I suck jumping off one leg. I can barely get higher than off two legs, which I should be doing and what is considered normal.

In terms of sprinting capability, My acceleration is above average, but not very impressive, neither is my top speed, but I can hold that speed. I ran the 60 m dash in ~8.70 seconds 6 months ago. Hand-timed of course, but I defenitively think I can run a legit sub 9. Not very impressive by you sprint coaches standards, but an above average time in my year.

Back to gym-talk:

Right now I'm training 3 x 10 for hypertrophy. I'm gonna begin mucking around with lower reps when I've added enough lean muscle mass.

I'm in a hurry so I can't tie this up neatly. Any help and critique is very appreciated.

Thanks in advance

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on October 22, 2006 at 11:02 am #58082

You sound like one of the few cases where I think medium load higher rep work would actually be beneficial. First it will probably help to add a little mass on your pretty slim frame but as you are almost a complete novice the higher reps will help to build the soft tissue strength necessary for heavier lifting. I'd stick to multi-joint exercises; do 3-6 exercises per session; 5+ sets of 8-10 reps for your priority lifts; and 2-3 sets of 10-12 reps for your auxilary exercises. After one cycle (~4 weeks) I'd suggest switching up the exercises and the set rep schemes so that you're handling slightly heavier loads for a lower number of reps.

ELITETRACK Founder

[nian]

nian on October 22, 2006 at 9:44 pm #58083

You sound like one of the few cases where I think medium load higher rep work would actually be beneficial. First it will probably help to add a little mass on your pretty slim frame but as you are almost a complete novice the higher reps will help to build the soft tissue strength necessary for heavier lifting. I'd stick to multi-joint exercises; do 3-6 exercises per session; 5+ sets of 8-10 reps for your priority lifts; and 2-3 sets of 10-12 reps for your auxilary exercises. After one cycle (~4 weeks) I'd suggest switching up the exercises and the set rep schemes so that you're handling slightly heavier loads for a lower number of reps.

First off, thanks for replying, Mike. This is gold to me. I've read a few of your posts before and you seem to know what you're talking about.

My reply: One of the few cases? You mean I'm one of the few – weak – non-weightlifting guys here? I'm cool with that. Multi-joint exercises sound good, with that you mean basic exercises with "big" movements, right? Exercises I'm aiming to use as a big part of my program are: Squat, deadlift, military press, dips, chins/pullups (later on, these will be done with extra weight attached to me). Hopefully I'll be able to get the technique right for OLs during these 4 weeks. You have any other exercise you specifically recommend (another push exercise for the upperbody?) or will the aforementioned be sufficient?

You mean 5+ sets for each exercise? If so, how will I benefit more from 5+ sets x 8-10 reps rather than 3 sets of 10? The weight I'll be lifting will drop slightly compared to right now, but maybe that won't be an issue. I've been under the impression that (basically) this was the way to progress (with variations for different individuals):

3 x 10 for 4-8 weeks
3 x 8 for 4-8 weeks
4 x 6 for 4-6 weeks
5 x 5 for 4-6 weeks
etc

On a sidenote I've seen this come up alot on different forums:

Explosivity=Force/Time

Could low force development, simply insufficient strength, be the problem for me?

I will try what your advice, and report the results.

Thanks

[flow]

flow on October 22, 2006 at 9:49 pm #58084

multi-joint are basically the things you mentioned.  you could also think about working with olympic lifts if you're up to it.

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on October 22, 2006 at 9:53 pm #58085

i wouldn't do the rep/set you have, i would probably do one max strength day (5-8 sets @4-6reps) and one rep day (3-4 sets @15-30reps to failure with 90sec rest) something along those lines. u may have success with your setup if u r a beginner

[nian]

nian on October 22, 2006 at 10:44 pm #58086

90 % of the time I'll only be able to lift weights once a week

[davan]

davan on October 22, 2006 at 11:10 pm #58087

I think you will have problems if you lift once a week. You will probably get sore almost every time you lift and may not make the gains you want. Try to get in at least 2x a week and then you can at least make some sort of progress. If you cannot dedicate more than 1 session a week, I don't know if weights are necessarily an answer (you may as well invest in a medball and hills and get some general strength that way).

[Carl Valle]

Carl Valle on October 22, 2006 at 11:16 pm #58088

Get a coach if you can…..find a way. Distance learning is not the same.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on October 23, 2006 at 9:50 am #58089

i wouldn't do the rep/set you have, i would probably do one max strength day (5-8 sets @4-6reps) and one rep day (3-4 sets @15-30reps to failure with 90sec rest) something along those lines. u may have success with your setup if u r a beginner

The reason I suggested he stay with higher rep (~10 reps) routines initially is because I assumed he was basically a weight room newbie. With athletes with low training ages or those who are very new to the weight room I've found long term sucess in keeping things very simple in the beginning. I prefer to save advanced training methods (high load / low rep, complex training, bands, etc) for more advanced athletes.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on October 23, 2006 at 9:52 am #58090

90 % of the time I'll only be able to lift weights once a week

As Davan said this isn't going to be ideal but if you can get creative with bodyweight strength training and other means of developing strength / power (like multi-jumps, medball throws, etc) you should be ok.

ELITETRACK Founder

[utfootball4]

utfootball4 on October 23, 2006 at 10:00 am #58091

[quote author="utfootball4" date="1161534256"]
i wouldn't do the rep/set you have, i would probably do one max strength day (5-8 sets @4-6reps) and one rep day (3-4 sets @15-30reps to failure with 90sec rest) something along those lines. u may have success with your setup if u r a beginner

The reason I suggested he stay with higher rep (~10 reps) routines initially is because I assumed he was basically a weight room newbie. With athletes with low training ages or those who are very new to the weight room I've found long term sucess in keeping things very simple in the beginning. I prefer to save advanced training methods (high load / low rep, complex training, bands, etc) for more advanced athletes.
[/quote]

just curious do you think one day of strength work with reps of 4-6 and one day with higher reps would be consider advance? i think with the high strength reps 4-6 its safer for a newer athlete and also allows for more time under tension.

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on October 23, 2006 at 10:06 am #58092

just curious do you think one day of strength work with reps of 4-6 and one day with higher reps would be consider advance? i think with the high strength reps 4-6 its safer for a newer athlete and also allows for my time under tension.

No not really. I just figured as he might be completely new to weight training (based off max numbers) that I thought his soft tissue would benefit from some higher rep work. At lower rep ranges the initial strength gains due to enhanced nervous system efficiency may be greater than with higher rep ranges and as a result muscle strength could quickly outpace tendon strength / resiliency. 

ELITETRACK Founder