[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on June 14, 2013 at 11:04 am #18902

At the end of the season it is very important to take a deep breath and evaluate your season. I think it is always good to write down the things that went well and the things that didn’t go so great. As a coach every year you will need to make minor adjustments. I want to emphasis the word minor. After a really good year we may want to ignore things that can grow into problems if left unchecked.

Continue reading…

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[Matt Gardner]

Matt Gardner on June 14, 2013 at 11:51 pm #120009

I think it’s pretty pointless to compare high schools in different parts of the country (it’s difficult enough to gather much from comparing schools in the same conference in this manner). Even with nearby towns, some areas have better culture for distance events, some areas a larger talent pool for speed power events, and some don’t have much talent at all. If you are at a school long enough you can have an effect on community interest and programs to an extent, but after that you still have to work with what you get. I think it’s what you do with that environment and your constraints that you compare your program. I also think you can certainly learn something from looking at other programs and see what they are doing with their own environment. However, that works best by watching those programs, talking to those coaches, and getting to know their program so you can understand what they are actually doing with what they have.

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on June 15, 2013 at 4:08 am #120010

I think it’s pretty pointless to compare high schools in different parts of the country (it’s difficult enough to gather much from comparing schools in the same conference in this manner). Even with nearby towns, some areas have better culture for distance events, some areas a larger talent pool for speed power events, and some don’t have much talent at all. If you are at a school long enough you can have an effect on community interest and programs to an extent, but after that you still have to work with what you get. I think it’s what you do with that environment and your constraints that you compare your program. I also think you can certainly learn something from looking at other programs and see what they are doing with their own environment. However, that works best by watching those programs, talking to those coaches, and getting to know their program so you can understand what they are actually doing with what they have.

Matt. With all due respect you are correct that comparing in normal situations its best to do that with schools close to you. However, for the purpose of a BLOG I know most people on here are familar with Latif and my program. This helps give people perspective for topic. If you were going to do these with your program locally it best to compare locally. As I wrote in the blog its good to look in the mirror first and make minor adjustments. Then to get a broader scope it is useful to look at what other programs accomplished in the same year with GOOD coaches. Latif does a good job. Comparing yourself to people you respect helps keep you competitve. Period.

However, I do disagree about not having talent for particular events. Every school of similar size (1000 or more) will have the potential for similar talent. It just depends on the focus of the school. A school wants to be good at sprinting it will become good at sprinting if they recruit, train well, and keep kids healthy. The same will be true if the school has a culture that is more toward technical events or distance races. Will you have a state champion every year???? Probobly not. Will you be better then average and have multiple state qualifiers in the areas you want to emphasize??? Yes.

Consistancy is the key to a good program. As for the rest of your statement I of course agree because I made mention to the same issues in my blog. Have a great weekend!! (:

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[Derrick Brito]

Derrick Brito on June 15, 2013 at 8:04 am #120011

Agreed with Ryan. Statistically speaking, a group of 1000 people is going to look similar to another group of 1000 people unless there are substantial population differences. When you see differences in competitiveness, it often comes down to coaching and environment. Both of those can be influenced by the right staff.

[Matt Gardner]

Matt Gardner on June 15, 2013 at 1:24 pm #120014

Curious what different parts of the country you guys have coached in? Also how many different school systems? I’ve coached in the south and in New England. Completely different ball game in regard to short sprint and hurdle talent and it’s not due to population genetics. 15 years of winter weather 4 months per year equals a lot of kids with a lot less of a movement history. You also have marathon culture up here. Within your own area you can be competitive, but I don’t see those Mass relays whopping up on teams from Texas. Boston loves distance (marathon culture) so you’ll always have some distance kids. You work with what you have and can compete and compare locally (with community context).

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on June 15, 2013 at 3:05 pm #120015

Curious what different parts of the country you guys have coached in? Also how many different school systems? I’ve coached in the south and in New England. Completely different ball game in regard to short sprint and hurdle talent and it’s not due to population genetics. 15 years of winter weather 4 months per year equals a lot of kids with a lot less of a movement history. You also have marathon culture up here. Within your own area you can be competitive, but I don’t see those Mass relays whopping up on teams from Texas. Boston loves distance (marathon culture) so you’ll always have some distance kids. You work with what you have and can compete and compare locally (with community context).

Well I do think I discussed those differences in the original blog. Culture, teams, weather, etc. However, Matt please dont think that the weather was great in Missouri this year. https://elitetrack.com/blogs-details-7755/ This blog might clarify our conditions.

As for were I coached. Like you I have coached a lot of different groups of kids around my area in a number of different sports. From Volleyball to Bowling. I did run college track in Wisconsin and we didnt have a indoor track. So yes I know what it is to run cold.

I guess my last question would be where do you coach or did coach high school track? It might help to clarify our discussion.

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[Derrick Brito]

Derrick Brito on June 15, 2013 at 8:17 pm #120016

Curious what different parts of the country you guys have coached in? Also how many different school systems? I’ve coached in the south and in New England. Completely different ball game in regard to short sprint and hurdle talent and it’s not due to population genetics. 15 years of winter weather 4 months per year equals a lot of kids with a lot less of a movement history. You also have marathon culture up here. Within your own area you can be competitive, but I don’t see those Mass relays whopping up on teams from Texas. Boston loves distance (marathon culture) so you’ll always have some distance kids. You work with what you have and can compete and compare locally (with community context).

I’ve coached in two states and three school districts. Culture definitely makes a difference, but end results can be similar with any school of a similar population. I could post times of the team I was at last year (~1200 kids) and it would be similar to the school comparisons that Ryan posted above. This despite the fact that I’m in the northwest and he is in the south.

[Matt Gardner]

Matt Gardner on June 15, 2013 at 10:36 pm #120017

I’ve coached in Mass and in NC (NC does have more population). What would be an easy state champion 4×100 relay for that size school up here may barely make states most years there.

As for short hurdles here are top NC times. No Massachusetts boy has ever broken 14s. State record in MA is 13.8 Hand (state champion is usually 14 mid-low FAT). You might see a few names you recognize on the current collegiate and international scene below from NC as well. They don’t exist from MA.

110 METER HIGH HURDLES
Wayne Davis II Southeast Raleigh 13.08 (+2.0) US HS Record; 2009 Pan Am Jr
Johnny Dutch Clayton 13.34c 2006 (best FAT, 13.36w +2.7, 2007; best legal FAT, 13.46, 2007) more
Booker Nunley Garner 13.40 2008 -1.0 US Juniors 6/20 more
Spencer Adams Matthews Butler 13.51 2008 +1.2
Charlton Rolle Winston-Salem Reynolds 13.53w +3.2 2007 (best legal time, 13.82)
Mike Loyd W-S Mount Tabor 13.60 2002 (led nation)
Robert Boulware Charlotte Vance 13.70 2001
Darryl Reynolds New Bern 13.72 2006
Simmons Southeast Guilford 13.74c 1993
Mike Benjamin New Bern 13.77#c 1978 (13.74y,c)
Elbert Ellis Durham Hillside 13.78 1987
Tony Horne Richmond County 13.84 1994
William Cooper East Forsyth 13.86 1981
Jamaal Brand High Point Andrews 13.86 2001
Kris Fant Asheville AC Reynolds 13.86 2003
Jeff Howser Charlotte Myers Park 13.87#c 1966 (13.84y,c)
Charles Romes Durham Hillside 13.87#c 1972 (13.84y,c) more
Earl George New Bern 13.87#c 1976 (13.84y,c)
Cade Liverman Asheville AC Reynolds 13.87 2003
Charles Derrickson Fay. Pine Forest 13.87 2005
Larry Harrington Raleigh Millbrook 13.89 1989
Duane Ross North Gaston 13.91 1991 more
Sean Jeffcoat Fayetteville Britt 13.91 2007
Scott Fletcher W-S Parkland 13.92 1987
Tyriq Jackson Huntersville Hopewell 13.93 2011 West 4-A Reg. 5/7
Jacobi Jones Jacksonville 13.94c 1995
Alvin Grimes Greenville Rose 13.94c 1997
Kris Jones Eastern Wayne 13.94c 1998
Darius Colbert High Point Andrews 13.94c 2004
Isaiah Moore Burlington Cummings 13.94 2012 +0.3 USATF Reg 3 JO 7/8

I’m not saying you can’t do a good job coaching in MA and have a solid team. The reality is there is less to work with in short sprints, short hurdles, and long jump (due to increased coachability in the triple jump I’ve had similar results up here). 400 and up it isn’t that different especially on a similar size school to school comparison. You can coach speed up here and make people faster. In fact I think the overall level of coaching at the high school level is better in MA than NC. Unfortunately, what kids do the 14-18 years before they meet you affects how fast they’ll be. As far as the assertion that different high schools within the same state have different distribution of talent this is largely cultural. Over a number years this culture can change and be affected by the track coach, but I’ve seen some very different starting conditions in nearby school districts.

[Derrick Brito]

Derrick Brito on June 16, 2013 at 12:49 am #120018

I think your findings support what we’ve been saying. If you will give me some leeway for error, I did some quick research. I figured that a 2A school in NC was about the size of a 5A school in Oregon, or a 3A school in Washington (~1000 kids). If you look at the North Carolina (NC) state championships (https://www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?event_id=432&year=2013&do=info&eid=140) you can easily see that the times overall are faster than the equivalent state championship in Oregon or Washington. However, Washington has ~65 3A schools (Oregon has ~40?), while NC has a whopping 95. Thus the talent pool for the 2A state championships is roughly 30,000 kids larger. Obviously they don’t all run track, but enough do. Furthermore, if we look at 4×100 relays, we can see that depth per school is relatively similar. The fastest 4×100 in Oregon ran 41.5 (41.6 in Washington) this year, while the fastest two at the NC state championships ran 41.3 and 41.9. Faster overall yes, but not a massive difference for teams that are already outliers, in a state with over twice as many people as Oregon, and 50% more than Washington. One can easily see the depth is much better in NC, probably by virtue of it having so many more people. So I still believe that schools of similar sizes can be compared regardless of area. Top 10 lists and championship meets are a whole different animal entirely.

[davan]

davan on June 16, 2013 at 4:36 am #120019

Oregon and Washington are a completely different beast than MA. Oregon has TONS of interest in track and field as a whole in comparison to much of the country, particularly a place like MA. The weather is also far different. You can actually go outside and train Nov-March. You are lucky do to that in most of the midwest and NE and are likely to have crap weather into April and May.

There is also another reason why you will never see MA as a whole dominating the sprints for any extended period of time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Breakdown_by_state

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on June 16, 2013 at 4:52 am #120020

Oregon and Washington are a completely different beast than MA. Oregon has TONS of interest in track and field as a whole in comparison to much of the country, particularly a place like MA. The weather is also far different. You can actually go outside and train Nov-March. You are lucky do to that in most of the midwest and NE and are likely to have crap weather into April and May.

There is also another reason why you will never see MA as a whole dominating the sprints for any extended period of time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Breakdown_by_state

Getting back to the two schools used for comparison Parkway Central is in a upper class suburb of St. Louis so demographically similar to the Bishop. We do have the most diverse school in the area but that comes from our Asian, Jewish, and Muslim populations. However, these are still in the minority as you would expect in a midwestern suburb. Looking at the map you provided Saint Louis is mostly German and MA is mostly Irish. Both European decent soo not really that different for general populations.

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[davan]

davan on June 16, 2013 at 5:21 am #120021

Why bother comparing the two schools? When 13sec 100s and 64sec 400s make your top lists for either team, I believe your results are going to be more subject to relative/year-to-year talent (and what the kids did growing up) than coaching. That isn’t a knock on the coaching at all, it is just that indicates very low level talent as a whole in the program. If it takes a smart coach to get a girl to run 64 in the 400, you are screwed.

If a school is consistently putting out a few sub 60 sec girls, every year, and 12low to mid every year, with those populations, that is completely different and might be more comparable then, but I still prefer looking at the same geographic areas. Within the same area, I think you can judge by dual meet results and whatnot. If a school in the same area, similar demo, then it is more reasonable and fair IMO.

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on June 16, 2013 at 5:43 am #120022

Why bother comparing the two schools? When 13sec 100s and 64sec 400s make your top lists for either team, I believe your results are going to be more subject to relative/year-to-year talent (and what the kids did growing up) than coaching. That isn’t a knock on the coaching at all, it is just that indicates very low level talent as a whole in the program. If it takes a smart coach to get a girl to run 64 in the 400, you are screwed.

If a school is consistently putting out a few sub 60 sec girls, every year, and 12low to mid every year, with those populations, that is completely different and might be more comparable then, but I still prefer looking at the same geographic areas. Within the same area, I think you can judge by dual meet results and whatnot. If a school in the same area, similar demo, then it is more reasonable and fair IMO.

To answer your question did you notice that some those kids were jumpers too??? Our best sprinters were also our best jumpers 38-2 and 36-6 is nothing to sneeze at along with four girls over 16 feet in the long jump.

Davan your are a smart guy so when I tell you I put kids this year in events were they are going to most succeed I hope you will take my word for it. Our Triple Jumper also our best 100 girl the previous year was 2nd in the state this year. Our two long jumpers also qualified. Our kids are only allowed 4 events. That means for this season two jumps and the two faster relays.

Could I have put those kids in the 400, 4×400, and given them more chances in short sprints?? Yes. But for what point.

Another factor you must understand is we had in our sectional in the 100 Dash, 200 Dash, and 400 Dash I new going into the year there were only 4 spots and we had 4 all state kids better then my girls in the sprints. These girls ended up being all state and we had very little chance to knock any of them out.

So when we were finally peaked my best kids were not in those sprints because they were better in other events given them the best chance to be all state/qualify for state.

I knew my girls were going to have a good shot at being all state in the jumps and the relays. So that is the direction I went. Now not to be a horses arse but you may like to know in the last seven years I have had a all state sprint relay six of those seven and on many occasions more then just one. That kind of consistency is what were are talking about. Over that course of time we also have had a couple ALL State 4x800s including the current state record. Each year brings new challenges and I guess that is the point. Going into the state meet we ranked not to make the finals in the 4×100 and we finished 4th with a 48.66pre/48.74 final time.

As for geography as I stated prevously I chose his school and mine because most people are aware of the background and knowledge of both coaches. I actually think it is interesting how the schools match up in comparison from such a great distance.

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[davan]

davan on June 16, 2013 at 6:12 am #120023

I think Matt already acknowledged that the TJ is extremely trainable. It is pretty indicative to me that your best athletes are horizontal jumpers. There is a lot of technique at play and are much more coachable than say, the 100m or 400m even. I mean look at the 4×400 times. Well over 4:10?

I think the 4×100 results for both schools show that they can coach exchanges and technique. You really could run those times with mostly just 13.0 runners, if they had the baton skills, so I don’t think it really helps compare athletes or results exactly. If you had fast runners, you could throw together many combinations and get well under 4:10. The high school I went to in Pittsburgh is pretty much entirely (>95%) suburban white kids with no indoor tracks or facilities for the most part and there haven’t been many years where they didn’t throw together a sub 4 4×4 and I don’t think ever, in the 10 years or so I followed them, put together a team worse than 4:05. They rarely have been able to put 4x100s together though, in spite of sending girls to state in the 100/200/400, 4×4, 100h, etc individually..

Are you considering the 4×800 a sprint relay? I would consider that middle distance, an event that schools in the NE and midwest tend to excel in because of the popularity of distance running. It certainly isn’t a sprint ad there aren’t a lot of 400/800 doublers out there.

You have some great results, but there are plenty of events (individual sprints/hurdles predominantly) where I can safely say that comparing your school with a school from MA is silly and I think the sprints show that pretty clearly. I think it is silly to begin with, since you said yourself soccer is a huge thing people do from a young age, which I certainly never saw to that extent when I lived there. You guys are great in the most coachable events and relays, which I think does say a lot, but it would still be silly to compare the individual events.

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on June 16, 2013 at 8:32 am #120024

We have done well in the past in the 4×400 along with the other relays. What was the size of that Pittsburgh school? As for our 4×800 when your are running 9:06 you cant be slow and yes we had a sprinter on that relay. The point of bring that up is it takes a lot of kids in a lot of events to be solid across the board. That takes training, dedication, and yes coaching. I included our fastest relays over the last couple of years so you can see the sustained strength most seasons. Our 4×400 was very weak this year and I will be addressing that in training along with event selection. In fact since its slowest we have been since I changed our training in 2007. You will also notice the years we were not great at 4×100 we were usually better at the other relays. 2010 was our worst year sprint wise.

4×100
2013 48.66 All State 4th
2012 48.70 All State 2nd
2011 49.15 All State 6th
2010 52.35
2009 47.96 Fastest time in the state that year dq in prelims at state
2008 50.14
2007 — Did not run focused in other areas
2006 50.21
2005 49.61
2004 49.89
2003 48.48 All State 3rd

4×200
2013 1:45.15 10th
2012 1:44.36
2011 1:43.87 All State
2010 1:50.01
2009 1:43.01 Ran out of Zone
2008 1:42.29 1st State Champs
2007 1:44.37 9th
2006 1:48.54
2005 1:46.46
2004 1:46.40
2003 1:42.04 All State 2nd

4×400 Took over this training 2007
2013 4:15.31
2012 4:04.91 7th fasters time in state at that point but 5th at sectionals
2011 4:08.17
2010 4:04.75 6th fastest time in state at that point but 5th at sectionals
2009 3:55.79 All State 2nd
2008 3:55.64 State Champs 1st
2007 4:04.18 All State 8th

4×800 Took over this training 2007
2013 9:54.23
2012 9:54.61
2011 9:56.47
2010 9:39.75 5th fastest time in state at that point but was 5th at sectionals
2009 9:06.89 State Champs 1st and state record
2008 9:34.84 All State
2007 9:57.82

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[davan]

davan on June 16, 2013 at 9:07 am #120026

2009 was an awesome year and indicative of what you can do with talent, but the years you run 9:45 and 4:15 tell me absolutely nothing other than that you had minimal talent in the program. I fail to see how any of what you said proves your point other than the program has good coaching (most likely), but the final/top results are mostly talent dependent.

Total enrollment at my school was 2400 or so for 9-12, but have similar and more sports in the spring: lax, volleyball, softball, crew. Multiple of those teams have state titles and D1 recruits, so it takes a lot away. And remember, black students make-up less than 2% of the total enrollment.

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on June 16, 2013 at 9:15 am #120027

Individual Top ten since I have been at PCH Hand Held because not all times were FAT

100 Dash
1. Raequel Jacobs 11.6 2008 2nd in state
2. Dena Lewis 11.8 2003 2nd in state
3. Jasmine Charley 12.2 2005 5th at section and 5th in the state that year
4. Imani Myton 12.3 2011
5. Paige Nelson 12.3 2012
6. Khadijah Beyah 12.5 2009
7. Juanita Harris 12.6 2000
8. Miana Lee 12.62 2008
9. Whitney Clark 12.7 2005
10. Tasha Frazier 12.7 2011

200 Dash
1. Dena Lewis 25.1 2002/03
2. Jasmine Charley 25.3 2004
3. Miana Lee 25.3 2008 All State 6th
4. Raequel Jacobs 25.50 2008
5. Khadijha Beyah 25.5 2008
6. Lauren Johnson 25.7 2007
7. Imani Myton 25.9 2011
8. Annika Sisson 26.1 2011
9. Taylor Thompson 26.1 2012
10. Eddrena Littleton 26.4 2002

400 Dash/Split
1. Khadijha Beyah 57.8s 2008
2. Lauren Johnson 58.10 2007 All State 4th
3. Miana Lee 58.5 2008 State Quailfier
5. Kathleen Thompson 58.5s 2009
4. Raequel Jacobs 58.7s
5. Eddrena Littleton 59.2 2003 State Qualifier
6. Chlesy Gibson 59.4s 2010
7. Imani Myton 59.5s 2010
8. Anyaku Okpara 59.6s 2012
9. Katie Jost 59.8s 2010
10. Diane Robison 59.9s 2009

800 Run/Split
1. Emily Sisson 2:12.00s 2009
2. Diane Robison 2:13.65s 2007
3. Kathleen Thompson 2:16.5s 09
4. Lauren Johnson 2:18.9 2008
5. Sarah Madsen 2:23.5 2013
6. Annika Sisson 2:24.5s 2011
7. Taylor Burke 2:25.5s 2012
8. Katie Jost 2:25.96 2011
9. Kayla Friesen 2:27.5s 2013
10. Kara Stark 2:28.2 2013

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on June 16, 2013 at 9:29 am #120028

2009 was an awesome year and indicative of what you can do with talent, but the years you run 9:45 and 4:15 tell me absolutely nothing other than that you had minimal talent in the program. I fail to see how any of what you said proves your point other than the program has good coaching (most likely), but the final/top results are mostly talent dependent.

Total enrollment at my school was 2400 or so for 9-12, but have similar and more sports in the spring: lax, volleyball, softball, crew. Multiple of those teams have state titles and D1 recruits, so it takes a lot away. And remember, black students make-up less than 2% of the total enrollment.

Reason I asked about size is used an example of a school that has twice the population. 2400 to 1200 in the spring we offer water polo, soccer, lacross, and track and field for girls. Our African American popluation is also small. However, as I have stated in numerous blogs to me color and performance have much more to do with culture then genes. I know that is a huge conversation. As you mentioned above on the 4:15 that is one year. Again slow because of a number of reasons we have layed out in this discussion but also an outliner(a negative one) compared with all the other years. Talent yes but consistantly we have been very competitive for our size.

We are in the largest classification in Missouri for track and field (Top 96 schools). At 1200 we are in the bottom ten-tweleve of these schools. In spite of this we have finished 2nd or better in our district (regionals) six out of the last seven years. To do this you must beat 11 to 13 teams in our regional invite to achieve that honor. Talent does not create those situations alone. Instead it has to do with the program. Since I have been at PCH we have broken 75 records at (V, JV, and FR level) Parkway Central. So yes there is talent but their something else there too. Hardworking dedicated kids and skilled coaching staff.

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein

[davan]

davan on June 16, 2013 at 9:33 am #120029

Please explain what any of that has to do with comparing your school in St. Louis to one in Massachusetts? Do you want to go back and actually read what I was discussing and commenting on or do you want to go on and list handtimes of athletes you have coached?

And please, let’s use some honesty here when your top 100m had a NWI fat PB of 12.28 and a second bet NWI indicated time of 12.4x. Calling it 11.6h is a bit silly.

[davan]

davan on June 16, 2013 at 9:37 am #120030

[quote author="davan" date="1371353859"]2009 was an awesome year and indicative of what you can do with talent, but the years you run 9:45 and 4:15 tell me absolutely nothing other than that you had minimal talent in the program. I fail to see how any of what you said proves your point other than the program has good coaching (most likely), but the final/top results are mostly talent dependent.

Total enrollment at my school was 2400 or so for 9-12, but have similar and more sports in the spring: lax, volleyball, softball, crew. Multiple of those teams have state titles and D1 recruits, so it takes a lot away. And remember, black students make-up less than 2% of the total enrollment.

Reason I asked about size is used an example of a school that has twice the population. 2400 to 1200 in the spring we offer water polo, soccer, lacross, and track and field for girls. Our African American popluation is also small. However, as I have stated in numerous blogs to me color and performance have much more to do with culture then genes. I know that is a huge conversation. As you mentioned above on the 4:15 that is one year. Again slow because of a number of reasons we have layed out in this discussion but also an outliner(a negative one) compared with all the other years. Talent yes but consistantly we have been very competitive for our size.

We are in the largest classification in Missouri for track and field (Top 96 schools). At 1200 we are in the bottom ten-tweleve of these schools. In spite of this we have finished 2nd or better in our district (regionals) six out of the last seven years. To do this you must beat 11 to 13 teams in our regional invite to achieve that honor. Talent does not create those situations alone. Instead it has to do with the program. Since I have been at PCH we have broken 75 records at (V, JV, and FR level) Parkway Central. So yes there is talent but their something else there too. Hardworking dedicated kids and skilled coaching staff.[/quote]

I guess you are simply incapable of reading what I said in my first coach that you have done a great job coaching and the results are indicative of that. I am saying it is silly to compare schools in completely different geographic reasons and listed numerous reasons, including why posting the results of 1 year and 1 school and comparing it to one in MA is asinine.

Read what I said. I said it is silly to compare for many reasons. I will say we certainly didn’t have the fortune of having a large number of black athletes on the team. I mean look at what you just posted and what your argument is. I’m going to take a guess and say that well over 50% of those top times in the sprints (100-400) are held by black athletes, no? My high school track team had 3 black athletes, guy or girl, on the entire roster. I don’t know Latif’s situation, but I know that is the case for MANY schools in the Boston area.

[Ryan Banta]

Ryan Banta on June 16, 2013 at 10:02 am #120031

[quote author="Ryan Banta" date="1371355223"][quote author="davan" date="1371353859"]2009 was an awesome year and indicative of what you can do with talent, but the years you run 9:45 and 4:15 tell me absolutely nothing other than that you had minimal talent in the program. I fail to see how any of what you said proves your point other than the program has good coaching (most likely), but the final/top results are mostly talent dependent.

Total enrollment at my school was 2400 or so for 9-12, but have similar and more sports in the spring: lax, volleyball, softball, crew. Multiple of those teams have state titles and D1 recruits, so it takes a lot away. And remember, black students make-up less than 2% of the total enrollment.

Reason I asked about size is used an example of a school that has twice the population. 2400 to 1200 in the spring we offer water polo, soccer, lacross, and track and field for girls. Our African American popluation is also small. However, as I have stated in numerous blogs to me color and performance have much more to do with culture then genes. I know that is a huge conversation. As you mentioned above on the 4:15 that is one year. Again slow because of a number of reasons we have layed out in this discussion but also an outliner(a negative one) compared with all the other years. Talent yes but consistantly we have been very competitive for our size.

We are in the largest classification in Missouri for track and field (Top 96 schools). At 1200 we are in the bottom ten-tweleve of these schools. In spite of this we have finished 2nd or better in our district (regionals) six out of the last seven years. To do this you must beat 11 to 13 teams in our regional invite to achieve that honor. Talent does not create those situations alone. Instead it has to do with the program. Since I have been at PCH we have broken 75 records at (V, JV, and FR level) Parkway Central. So yes there is talent but their something else there too. Hardworking dedicated kids and skilled coaching staff.[/quote]

I guess you are simply incapable of reading what I said in my first coach that you have done a great job coaching and the results are indicative of that. I am saying it is silly to compare schools in completely different geographic reasons and listed numerous reasons, including why posting the results of 1 year and 1 school and comparing it to one in MA is asinine.

Read what I said. I said it is silly to compare for many reasons. I will say we certainly didn’t have the fortune of having a large number of black athletes on the team. I mean look at what you just posted and what your argument is. I’m going to take a guess and say that well over 50% of those top times in the sprints (100-400) are held by black athletes, no? My high school track team had 3 black athletes, guy or girl, on the entire roster. I don’t know Latif’s situation, but I know that is the case for MANY schools in the Boston area.[/quote]

In missouri over the last four years we have had more fat timing. When Raequel ran that time was at meet without fat. In fact there is a story about that race and the crazy times. As for her other times that year she had a head wind at her last three meets that season. She did end up second at state. Until the Everett family took over our milesplit site recording of meets was pretty spotty.

Here is the article: https://www.maxpreps.com/news/YLWkfICu8Uy-piuNFhVhaA/missouri–parkway-central’s-jacobs-tops-girls’-100.htm

I do want you to understand I read you loud and clear about your positive comments.

Again I chose to use Latfs school because of its similar size. Along with the fact that most people know us as coaches. If you are going to use outside programs you are right its best to use school in your area.

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." -Albert Einstein