Accurate timing? Freelap was tested with the IVAR system and is a fantastic electronic timing option. It’s portable and far better than the set-up with fusion sport. Looking at the youtube, the equipment is cumbersome, expensive, and visually distracting. If you are doing a combine perhaps it’s worth bringing out a system like that, but for training? Freelap all the way. Take a look at the video
Freelap versus Fusion Sport – No Contest
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Participant
If by Fusion Sport you are referring to the Smart Speed System then you have left out a lot of its applications, its used a lot in CODS and agility testing protocols. I may be wrong but I don’t think Freelap can be used for the CODS protocols the same way Smart Speed is.
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KeymasterFor my training center, I could definitely find use for both although I wasn’t interested in paying the $20k to take full advantage of Smart Speed. Likewise, I could see several advantages of the Smart Speed in field and court team sport settings. At the end of the day though the value (what you get for the money) isn’t there though even when you take in to account any advantages of Smart Speed over Freelap. And as Carl points out, Freelap has many advantages over Smart Speed…especially for the track and field athlete. I work with quite a few pro athletes in major league sports who want a timing system for themselves and could easily afford a Smart Speed but I still recommend Freelap to 90+% of them.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Keymaster
Track Dad-
Is that in regard to Freelap or Smart Speed?ELITETRACK Founder
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Keymaster
Batteries are an issue for the hand and foot pad IMO. Basically, you can’t replace the battery so you need to buy a new pad when the battery dies. If you only use the sticks then that’s no problem. I haven’t had too much reliability issues though….not when compared to other systems.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Keymaster
Do you plan to use the hand or foot touch pad? If not, it’s a non-issue. That said, I do hope that this battery replacement issue gets resolved.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
Last year Freelap began shipping a TX Touch with a replaceable battery. It is rectangular and looks like this TX Touch. The transmitter uses a CR2032 lithium battery (same as the watch) that is rated at 15,000 starts. The battery can be replaced by removing the vinyl label and replacing with another label.
Best,
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Participant
[quote author="Mike Young" date="1361153706"]Track Dad-
Is that in regard to Freelap or Smart Speed?Sorry for not being clear.
I was refering to what I have heard about Freelap.
Also, this could have been an earlier model that has since had any “bugs” worked out of…this was more of a question if there are still any issues, more as from a prospective customer.[/quote]Who specifically experienced problems? Could you share what teams are struggling with this? I am not trying to out anyone but I hear feedback without names it usually user error.
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Participant
I’m really on the fence with this…
I would like to buy the Freelap, but the battery issue is still the hang-up…So, is the customer expected to purchase an extra device too, at $140+, in case of battery failure, instead of just having a couple of inexpensive batteries in the bag?
From a consumers standpoint, having to replace a $140+ device, instead of a battery or 2 for a couple dollars is not right, and in my opinion a poor business practice.
The battery option is a no brainer, yet I find it interesting out other consumable technologies are never questioned. Since we are comparing price what system would be a better value?
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Participant
For my training center, I could definitely find use for both although I wasn’t interested in paying the $20k to take full advantage of Smart Speed. Likewise, I could see several advantages of the Smart Speed in field and court team sport settings. At the end of the day though the value (what you get for the money) isn’t there though even when you take in to account any advantages of Smart Speed over Freelap. And as Carl points out, Freelap has many advantages over Smart Speed…especially for the track and field athlete. I work with quite a few pro athletes in major league sports who want a timing system for themselves and could easily afford a Smart Speed but I still recommend Freelap to 90+% of them.
If I was to do a combine of 100 HS athletes to do a fund raiser I would use a conventional timing system.
If I am training a group I would go with freelap. Look at the photo. 8 tripods (that blow down all the time) for 2 splits for two athletes? Freelap can get 2 splits with two transmitters that don’t kill track space.
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Participant
[quote author="Carl Valle" date="1361163765"][quote author="Track Dad" date="1361158566"]I’m really on the fence with this…
I would like to buy the Freelap, but the battery issue is still the hang-up…So, is the customer expected to purchase an extra device too, at $140+, in case of battery failure, instead of just having a couple of inexpensive batteries in the bag?
From a consumers standpoint, having to replace a $140+ device, instead of a battery or 2 for a couple dollars is not right, and in my opinion a poor business practice.
The battery option is a no brainer, yet I find it interesting out other consumable technologies are never questioned. Since we are comparing price what system would be a better value?[/quote]
A pretty vague statement…
I would question any consumer product made such as this without a battery replacement… this is not and should not be a “consumeable” in my mind…The only consumeable products I can think of that you toss when the battery dies only cost a couple dollars at most, and are cheaply made.
A quality product, built for use in the field, as this should be, should be designed as such.
I’m an electrician by trade, and deal with many many testing electronic devices… all of which have replaceable batteries, I would not procure such a device without the ability to replace the batteries.[/quote]I will ask again. What team is complaining about the product? I often see user error as a problem. Where are you from and where do you coach?
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Participant
[quote author="Carl Valle" date="1361163765"][quote author="Track Dad" date="1361158566"]I’m really on the fence with this…
I would like to buy the Freelap, but the battery issue is still the hang-up…So, is the customer expected to purchase an extra device too, at $140+, in case of battery failure, instead of just having a couple of inexpensive batteries in the bag?
From a consumers standpoint, having to replace a $140+ device, instead of a battery or 2 for a couple dollars is not right, and in my opinion a poor business practice.
The battery option is a no brainer, yet I find it interesting out other consumable technologies are never questioned. Since we are comparing price what system would be a better value?[/quote]
A pretty vague statement…
I would question any consumer product made such as this without a battery replacement… this is not and should not be a “consumeable” in my mind…The only consumeable products I can think of that you toss when the battery dies only cost a couple dollars at most, and are cheaply made.
A quality product, built for use in the field, as this should be, should be designed as such.
I’m an electrician by trade, and deal with many many testing electronic devices… all of which have replaceable/rechargable batteries, I would not procure such a device without the ability to replace the batteries.[/quote]Agreed. Now the price is down to .001 cents per start with the removable option.
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Participant
If by Fusion Sport you are referring to the Smart Speed System then you have left out a lot of its applications, its used a lot in CODS and agility testing protocols. I may be wrong but I don’t think Freelap can be used for the CODS protocols the same way Smart Speed is.
You can do a 5-10-5 test and other combine tests with Freelap. I prefer to use freelap with video to get context as agility is also good to see on film.
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Participant
[quote author="Carl Valle" date="1361164679"][quote author="Track Dad" date="1361164400"][quote author="Carl Valle" date="1361163765"][quote author="Track Dad" date="1361158566"]I’m really on the fence with this…
I would like to buy the Freelap, but the battery issue is still the hang-up…So, is the customer expected to purchase an extra device too, at $140+, in case of battery failure, instead of just having a couple of inexpensive batteries in the bag?
From a consumers standpoint, having to replace a $140+ device, instead of a battery or 2 for a couple dollars is not right, and in my opinion a poor business practice.
The battery option is a no brainer, yet I find it interesting out other consumable technologies are never questioned. Since we are comparing price what system would be a better value?[/quote]
A pretty vague statement…
I would question any consumer product made such as this without a battery replacement… this is not and should not be a “consumeable” in my mind…The only consumeable products I can think of that you toss when the battery dies only cost a couple dollars at most, and are cheaply made.
A quality product, built for use in the field, as this should be, should be designed as such.
I’m an electrician by trade, and deal with many many testing electronic devices… all of which have replaceable batteries, I would not procure such a device without the ability to replace the batteries.[/quote]I will ask again. What team is complaining about the product? I often see user error as a problem. Where are you from and where do you coach?[/quote]
I made a statement from my experience with other coaches who have tried these. In fact, just today I talked on the phone with a coach from Canada who told me about the issues he had had when I asked him his opinion, as I knew he had used this system in the past.
He told me he was not sure if it was an older version, as the marketing for Canada had just started.This is not “personal”… no need to “call me out”… you have no need to know me, nor who I talked with…
I assume you have a financial stake in Freelap.[/quote]
Mike Young and I own 4000 shares of FRLP each….jokes aside I have learned a lot from the reality of timing. It has changed a lot and I am trying to get more people to do the basics such as timing.
I can post more links but I think reviewing products is important.
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Participant
I do think the 400m would benefit with just a stopwatch, especially a long to short program with a HS athlete. Nothing beats getting in shape and electronic timing is necessary for short sprints.
My main fault with Freelap is the need to put an app in freelap, as we all use smartphones and aggregating data is my biggest need.
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Participant
I have the freelap, watch and 2 juniors.
I have to say i do like it very much as a means of timing flying sprints etc However, as customer! I would prefer to be able to replace the power, and also a better means of connecting to PC then IR (I mean really Infared in this day and age lol)
Bluetooth link to an app would be superb that would allow something like Strava so you can putup against others etc. (however this would require some basic GPS)
Though I must say that I think the freelap may become obsolete in the armory this year as I am Beta testing a very cool app for timing 🙂 and if it works it will rock every athletes world lol
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Participant
I have the freelap, watch and 2 juniors.
I have to say i do like it very much as a means of timing flying sprints etc However, as customer! I would prefer to be able to replace the power, and also a better means of connecting to PC then IR (I mean really Infared in this day and age lol)
Bluetooth link to an app would be superb that would allow something like Strava so you can putup against others etc. (however this would require some basic GPS)
Though I must say that I think the freelap may become obsolete in the armory this year as I am Beta testing a very cool app for timing 🙂 and if it works it will rock every athletes world lol
I love apps as they are convenient. How does the app collect the data? When does it come out?
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Participant
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Participant
TD I think what Carl means is working from longer distances, hundredths and even a tenth either side isn’t really noticeable or what matters so a normal stop watch will do the job.
Over shorter distances more intense it becomes a different issue etc
Perfect explanation. Technology must match up with the needs and HS 400m runners is about technique and conditioning, not getting flying 30s every week. Testing may benefit but then just go to a combine prep facility in the area (they are like Dunkin Donuts on every corner ) and get tested.
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Participant
I guess if your a mid-distance minded coach you would veiw the 400m like that.
My daughter runs 100m/200m also, not just the 400m.
I believe that to properly train a 400m runner they first need to train velocity…the shorter sprints…then, add in the aerobic stuff later, after speed has been addressed.
This means training will be a combination of short sprint training and aerobic training (lactate training when age appropriate).
Even her L-S 400m training, on 3 speed days a week, was made up of 10m/20m/30m/40m/50m/60m accellerations.
Her next program will be a S-L 100m SPP.
Track Dad,
There are a few threads running right now about the benefits of one technological device or another. Could you give me an example of some past event, trend or situation where differences of a few hundreths of second in a training 30fly or something similar prompted you to intervene? What were you expecting, what was the actual result, what had been planned, and how did you change that plan? I ask, because I can’t imagine how someone can diagnose a difference of a few hundreths of a second in a training session and know 1) why it happened and 2) what should be done about it.
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Participant
Actually I promised Jimson a write up so i have sent to him first, then will post further details around.
Though if someone would like to post it as a Blog that would be great so its easily accessible then we can discuss timing methods a little further and better.
If you have access to two apple products with internet access you’r in for a treat with this app thats for sure.
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