What are the best ways to improve ones ground contact time?
– Gain strength…what else?
ground contact time
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Member
By improving GCT, I assume you mean lessen?
With that being said, increasing MaxS is number one as it is the most important factor in decreasing GCT. Also, if form is off, cleaning that up can help, drills that emphasize quick strides as opposed to long strides will help (stick drills), but nothing beats increasing MaxS…i.e. Power Cleans and Squats.
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Participant
What are the best ways to improve ones ground contact time?
– Gain strength…what else?As someone has already mentioned, improving MaxV is the best way to shorten ground contact times. I've been doing some reading on this lately, and I am tending to think shortened ground contact times are 'evidence', or a result, of increased speed, but not necessarily a 'path' to improved speed.
In other words, increasing MaxV will shorten ground contact times, but I'm not so sure doing specific work to shorten ground contact times will improve MaxV, unless that training directly improves MaxV. It's seems to me to be 'the cart before the horse', thing. Remember, correlation is not causation. The causal effect may flow one way (increased speed leads to shorter GC), but may not flow the other way (shorter GC leads to increased speed). If anyone has any references or other papers which discuss the causal relationship between GCT and MaxV, please post.
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KeymasterTo reduce GCT you need to increase leg stiffness. In my opinion there isn't really a single best way but I do things like fast eccentric lifts, stiffness jumps, and various catching (both the body from a fall and / or a load) exercises.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
Bump.
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Keymaster
Mike, can you give an example of an eccentric lift?
We do a couple varieties of eccentric lifting (I'll use squatting to demonstrate the different varieties but it can be done with most other exercises):
*Supramaximal load high-speed eccentric squats: we take 105-130% of squat max and do a 'negative' resisting the load as hard as possible. Although the athlete is attempting to slow the descent of the bar, the movement is considered 'high speed' because the load is greater than the athlete could concentrically handle.
*Submaximal load slow-speed eccentric squats: we take 75-90% of squat max and perform the eccentric at a slower rate of speed than normal. Typically, we use anywhere from a 2-5 count eccentric phase.
*Drop-catch squats: take 40-70% of maximal load for squats, then FREE FALL (let the bar and your body just drop) as fast as possible to the desired squat depth (we normally go to about 90 degrees for these) and then stop the descent as fast as possible and stand up.
*Rhythmic squats: using 80-120% of maximal loads, do half or quarter squats as fast as possible. Emphasizing a very fast change of direction at the bottom position.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
[quote author="ex400" date="1188503522"]
Mike, can you give an example of an eccentric lift?We do a couple varieties of eccentric lifting (I'll use squatting to demonstrate the different varieties but it can be done with most other exercises):
*Supramaximal load high-speed eccentric squats: we take 105-130% of squat max and do a 'negative' resisting the load as hard as possible. Although the athlete is attempting to slow the descent of the bar, the movement is considered 'high speed' because the load is greater than the athlete could concentrically handle.
*Submaximal load slow-speed eccentric squats: we take 75-90% of squat max and perform the eccentric at a slower rate of speed than normal. Typically, we use anywhere from a 2-5 count eccentric phase.
*Drop-catch squats: take 40-70% of maximal load for squats, then FREE FALL (let the bar and your body just drop) as fast as possible to the desired squat depth (we normally go to about 90 degrees for these) and then stop the descent as fast as possible and stand up.
*Rhythmic squats: using 80-120% of maximal loads, do half or quarter squats as fast as possible. Emphasizing a very fast change of direction at the bottom position.
[/quote]How do you work the Supramaximal load high-speed eccentric squats into the program without burning out the CNS?
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Keymaster
I only use it with very advanced athletes and it's typically only used for 1-2 cycles a year. The total volumes are VERY low (about 5 reps total in a workout).
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
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Participant
so only advanced athletes are recommended attempting such an exercise. Also if you were advanced athlete performing supramaximal loads in say the squat, should you bring your squat up to previous max strength before attempting such an exercise?
Yes to both of your questions.
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Keymaster
Agree with UT.
RE: %s…..there's no point using %s if you're not going to use a current max. If you use a % of an old max that you're not currently capable of you'll really throw off any attempts at periodization and increase the likelihood for injury.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
Agree with UT.
RE: %s…..there's no point using %s if you're not going to use a current max. If you use a % of an old max that you're not currently capable of you'll really throw off any attempts at periodization and increase the likelihood for injury.
I think he was saying should an athlete go through a strength phase before attempting such work.
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Participant
how do you do a stiffness jump, or fall catches as you say? Do you mean drop from a distance and stop instantly as if one was petrified?
i think stiff jumps are depth drops.
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Participantstiffness jumps are light pogos…
Siff jumps are South African Box jumps!
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Participant
To reduce GCT you need to increase leg stiffness. In my opinion there isn't really a single best way but I do things like fast eccentric lifts, stiffness jumps, and various catching (both the body from a fall and / or a load) exercises.
Mike, I remember us having this discussion a few years back relating it to GCT in the hurdles.
I do similar stuff. This may be overly simplistic, but in addition to the eccentric loading in the weight room, early in the season I tend to have athletes "hold" the landing off of a box with as little knee flexion as possible. From there I progress to allowing the contact and subsequent takeoff to be dynamic/elastic.
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Participant
Great stuff JJ-
His experience is right on as the knee and hip angle determines the contribution of the "meridians".
South African box jumps is a joke with the play on words with siff and stiff. Stiffness work is great as the forces don't' have to be high to work.
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Keymaster
South African box jumps is a joke with the play on words with siff and stiff. Stiffness work is great as the forces don't' have to be high to work.
Unfortunately (for them) not too many of the young ones know who Siff is and wouldn't get the joke. As fundamentalist Siff follower, I got the humour immediately.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
[quote author="ex400" date="1188503522"]
Mike, can you give an example of an eccentric lift?We do a couple varieties of eccentric lifting (I'll use squatting to demonstrate the different varieties but it can be done with most other exercises):
*Supramaximal load high-speed eccentric squats: we take 105-130% of squat max and do a 'negative' resisting the load as hard as possible. Although the athlete is attempting to slow the descent of the bar, the movement is considered 'high speed' because the load is greater than the athlete could concentrically handle.
*Submaximal load slow-speed eccentric squats: we take 75-90% of squat max and perform the eccentric at a slower rate of speed than normal. Typically, we use anywhere from a 2-5 count eccentric phase.
*Drop-catch squats: take 40-70% of maximal load for squats, then FREE FALL (let the bar and your body just drop) as fast as possible to the desired squat depth (we normally go to about 90 degrees for these) and then stop the descent as fast as possible and stand up.
*Rhythmic squats: using 80-120% of maximal loads, do half or quarter squats as fast as possible. Emphasizing a very fast change of direction at the bottom position.
[/quote]Hey Mike back in the 90's I had the chance to speak to Mike Woicik the Dallas Cowboys SC who is now with the New England Patriots, my question is I'm curious what you describe above as rhythmic squats are they the same as what Mike called speed squats?
Speed squats: Do sets of five squats at maximum speed (slightly above parallel) for time. When you can break five seconds for five reps, increase the weight – weights used are 30-40% of your one-rep max.
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Keymaster
They are similar but not exactly the same. I typically do rhythm squats at half or 1/4 squat position with the emphasis on turning the bar around very quickly.
I have done speed squats as you mentioned. That protocol is straight out of old soviet speed training manuals. I liked it but I always found it difficult to time the reps with reasonable accuracy. Also, I found it difficult to standardize depth at the higher speeds. You could use a box or medball but when athletes are racing against the clock there's always the temptation to cut the ROM short.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
They are similar but not exactly the same. I typically do rhythm squats at half or 1/4 squat position with the emphasis on turning the bar around very quickly.
I have done speed squats as you mentioned. That protocol is straight out of old soviet speed training manuals. I liked it but I always found it difficult to time the reps with reasonable accuracy. Also, I found it difficult to standardize depth at the higher speeds. You could use a box or medball but when athletes are racing against the clock there's always the temptation to cut the ROM short.
The difference I see is the load you are using, everything else look similar.
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Keymaster
Yeah. The loads I use are 2.5-3x what would be used in the speed squat protocol you mentioned and the ROM is considerably less.
ELITETRACK Founder
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Participant
Is leg stiffness joint angle specific? I've read that this is the case with isometric lifts and the two seem to be closely related – at least superficially.
What are the factors that influence leg stiffness? Tendon stiffness? Isometric/eccentric muscular strength?
Studies on the effect of surface on leg stiffness have shown that the body adjusts to running on softer surfaces by increasing joint stiffness – in light of this is there any room for grass training? I can think of a number of top groups that utilise grass for tempo and/or speed work, could this be a byproduct?
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Participant
[quote author="mcginles" date="1185968509"]
What are the best ways to improve ones ground contact time?
– Gain strength…what else?As someone has already mentioned, improving MaxV is the best way to shorten ground contact times. I've been doing some reading on this lately, and I am tending to think shortened ground contact times are 'evidence', or a result, of increased speed, but not necessarily a 'path' to improved speed.
In other words, increasing MaxV will shorten ground contact times, but I'm not so sure doing specific work to shorten ground contact times will improve MaxV, unless that training directly improves MaxV. It's seems to me to be 'the cart before the horse', thing. Remember, correlation is not causation. The causal effect may flow one way (increased speed leads to shorter GC), but may not flow the other way (shorter GC leads to increased speed). If anyone has any references or other papers which discuss the causal relationship between GCT and MaxV, please post.[/quote]
Sorry for restarting an old thread…I couldn’t find the more recent threads on GCT. First I quoted my earlier post for context, and now I quote Weyland
The biological limits to running speed are imposed from the ground up
Peter G. Weyand,1,2 Rosalind F. Sandell,1,2 Danille N. L. Prime,2 and Matthew W. Bundle3(Finally, while our data indicate that muscle fibers with relatively slow contractile kinetics impose a biological limit to sprint running speeds, slower fibers also economize the forces produced during standing and walking (3, 27, 41) and confer greater tendon and bone safety margins during rapid weight-bearing movements (4, 41). These functional trade-offs may explain why the fastest animal sprinters have adapted for running speed with little apparent alteration in muscle fiber speeds. The muscles of cheetahs and greyhounds function at rates that differ little from those of other running animals (16, 46). Rather, these animals have adapted for speed by developing gait mechanics that prolong their periods of ground force application. These quadrupeds gallop with pronounced backbone bending that increases their foot-ground contact times and lengths (2, 23) to values (39) that approach those of humans even though their limbs are only half as long (29). Relatively greater contact lengths and times allow faster running speeds to be attained before foot-ground contact times fall to the minimums that muscle fiber speeds permit.
Because humans have limbs of moderate length and cannot gallop, they lack similar options for prolonging periods of foot-ground force application to attain faster sprinting speeds at existing contact time minimums.
This, IMHO, validates my belief that there is no positive contribution to speed by simply reducing GCT, and reducing GCT is not the path to greater speed; greater speed is the path to reduced GCT. And, GCT is actually a limiting factor in force generation and reducing GCT, all other things remaining unchanged, would reduce speed as less force could be generated due to an abbreviated GCT. Said another way, GCT is not a causal factor in sprinting speed, it is a by-product of faster speeds. The ability to generate more force during GCT is the limiting factor, and for sprinters is probably directly related to RFD.
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