[Dave Hegland]

Dave Hegland on October 16, 2005 at 8:40 am #11361

I'm trying to work my way through extensive tempo vs. general strength.  I know there are people who strongly advocate tempo and those who swear by tempo in the form of general strength exercises.  I'm torn.  I like and believe in tempo, but I'm being forced indoors and 2000+ meters of tempo, particularly for 400 types, isn't appealing on a 200m synthetic track. 

I have two tempo days to play with.  Would I get the benefits of tempo with one day (Tues) of roughly 2000m per week, with the following tempo day (Th) using general strength circuits?  Or do I get none of the benefit of either method due to their relatively infrequent use?  Incidentally, I'm planning bodybuild circuits in the weight room on these days, as well as hurdle mobility.

[lorien]

lorien on October 17, 2005 at 6:59 pm #49305

Do you have access to a treadmill? Tempo could be done on such a machine without the negative elements from a hard synthetic track. You could also do some pool work. Moreover, you could combine some tempo running with a traditional circuit and some GS work.

Don???t feel obliged to choose one over the other when you can alternate between then and organize them as you wish ??? different alternatives are a resource in this matter.

[Dave Hegland]

Dave Hegland on October 17, 2005 at 9:43 pm #49306

Dealing with a team of 25+.  Treadmill isn't practical in this situation.

[jjh999]

jjh999 on October 19, 2005 at 12:28 am #49307

I'm trying to work my way through extensive tempo vs. general strength. I know there are people who strongly advocate tempo and those who swear by tempo in the form of general strength exercises. I'm torn. I like and believe in tempo, but I'm being forced indoors and 2000+ meters of tempo, particularly for 400 types, isn't appealing on a 200m synthetic track.

I have two tempo days to play with. Would I get the benefits of tempo with one day (Tues) of roughly 2000m per week, with the following tempo day (Th) using general strength circuits? Or do I get none of the benefit of either method due to their relatively infrequent use? Incidentally, I'm planning bodybuild circuits in the weight room on these days, as well as hurdle mobility.

(…crawling out from his cave…)

It might help to think of performing the general strength in a manner (i.e. rest intervals, heart rate) that would mimic an extensive tempo session. Also, you can combine a general strength and extensive tempo session: Perform an running rep, perform a general strength exercise, utilize a prescribed rest interval or go right back into a running rep. That might give you some more flexibility with your scheduling.

[Dave Hegland]

Dave Hegland on October 19, 2005 at 9:18 am #49308

JJ,

Thanks for the input.  I've done that kind of thing in the past.  For example, 8 x (run 200, jog 100, perform a GS exercise).  Endless possibilities there.  That still entails reps on the synthetic indoor surface, though.  I have no problems using tempo and gs on the same day – I think that works wonderfully. 

So I have a great deal of GS circuit options, ext. tempo options, and combinations thereof.  I guess my question, then, is theorectial.  Does a program that uses one extensive tempo day per week and one gs day per week get the same benefit as one that uses two days of either?  i.e. two tempo days or two gs days.  Does one reap the benefits of tempo work while only doing it once per week?  Does one reap the benefits of gs work while only doing it once per week?

[lorien]

lorien on October 19, 2005 at 4:13 pm #49309

depends what u r using tempo for?? as a workout No.. for recovery i think you would get some recovery benefits from it.. if u ask me i think u just need to do the tempo how many days u see fit, bc i have done 2000m 3 dayys indoors.. YOU GOT TO DO WHAT U GOT TO DO..

I have to disagree a bit; from recovery standpoint (including joints, tendons and ligaments) hard-surface tempo becomes less than optimal, especially in large volumes. Therefore, I would alternate and mix with other recovery modalities. Who cares about tons of tempo if you have a stress fracture? Tempo is good, but not the only option, not by far!

[jjh999]

jjh999 on October 19, 2005 at 6:45 pm #49310

Interesting discussion.

I think what might help refocus this is to discuss the reasons to do GS.  Once you figure that out, it will be much easier to decide the role it will have in you micro and how many times you want to use it.

[Dave Hegland]

Dave Hegland on October 22, 2005 at 9:03 am #49311

JJ, you asked about reasons to do GS.  I think the most basic and fundamental answer would be to recover from high intensity work and increase work capacity.  My current thinking on this is that higher volumes of extensive tempo are a more specific means of accomplishing this end, particularly for 400m runners (as Mike has written here in the past).  However, I also feel that tempo work is much more apt to leave my athletes with lower leg and back pain due to the constraints of a 200m indoor track.  As a result, it may be more pragmatic, if less utopian, to prescribe more GS and hurdle mobility work on recovery/work capacity days. 

I'm having a tough time letting go of tempo, though I do believe that it will undoubtedly lead to more injuries than GS.  I view the injury risk of GS as almost nill, but the potential benefit not nearly as high as with tempo.  It's a cost/benefit analysis of sorts, with health winning out in my mind. 

So, I'm leaning towards (for 400m types):

M – acc dev, weights
T – mobility, tempo, bodybuild exercises in wt. room
W –  max velocity, weights
Th – mobility, GS
F – run/jump circuit, bodybuild exercises in wt. room 

So we end up with one tempo day and one gs day.  This is currently letting me sleep at night.  I'd like to move towards intensive tempo on Thursdays, at which point I would cut the extensive tempo on Tuesdays and go with mobility/GS.  After these days I would keep the jumps to a minimum in the Friday run/jump circuits, assuming we'll bring some fatigue into that day (especially after the first few sessions of intensive tempo).

Thoughts from the gallery?

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on November 21, 2005 at 9:21 am #49312

One of the main problems I've dealt with since coming to Army is the frequency and severity of lower leg stress related injuries (due to the cadets walking, marching, and running in boots all the time). While it was warm enough we did most of our extensive tempo work (2x / week for long sprinters; 1x / week for short sprinters) on a grass field. Now that the temperature is dropping off though we'll be looking to other alternative means (pool, jump stretch stretch trainer circuits, etc.) to accomplish the same goal because I need to minimize our stress related injuries and don't want to put in more time than necessary on our indoor oval.

ELITETRACK Founder

[Todd Lane]

Todd Lane on November 21, 2005 at 8:09 pm #49313

Mike:

What are jump stretch trainer circuits?

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on November 22, 2005 at 5:42 am #49314

Mike:

What are jump stretch trainer circuits?

I've got kids doing intervals of various exercises (squats, good mornings, etc.) for time on a platform with jump stretch bands fixed to it. Because the bands prevent the athlete from ever leaving the ground significantly if at all there is practically zero impact and in many cases the workout is actually harder than the running workout equivalent.

ELITETRACK Founder

[QUIKAZHELL]

QUIKAZHELL on November 22, 2005 at 10:56 am #49315

Guys, I have been toying with the same idea since the weather up north is starting to suck and in the past tempo has seemed to leave me a bit beat up. Having to go through the enitre warmup and then tempo I feel hurts my joints, doesnt do too much to get rid of soreness and is just plain boring. I have been playing around with swimming laps in the pool 10×25 yards with 30 secs rest and I dont like aqua jogging because I feel I get nothing out of it and it overloads the hip flexors.
Last week since we were unable to get into the pool we did a few GS Circuits with a different type of warmup and I feel much fresher the next day. Only problem is that I dont not have that many other circuits to utilize. Here is what we did. If anyone else would like to share some circuits that would be nice too.
Mike, JJ others…do you feel with taking out ext tempo in the form of high volume running I am doing a diservice to my long sprinters? Or is the GS work enough? Is the capilarization and other adaptations "superficial" occuring in the specific muscles worked in a specific way. Sorry for the lack of wording.

In place Jump Circuit x 3 Rest 2'
Tuck Jumps x 10
Lunge Jumps x 10
Butt Kicks x 10
Squat Jumps x 10
Speed Skaters x 10

Medball Multi Throws/Wall x 3 R 2'
Chest Pass x 10
Overhead x 10
Twist  x 10e
Shotput throws x 10e
Between Legs x 10

Swiss Ball #1 x 3 Rest 2'
Pikes x 10
Ham curls x 12
Crucnches x 20  Pushups x 20

[Mike Young]

Mike Young on December 6, 2005 at 10:42 am #49316

Mike, JJ others…do you feel with taking out ext tempo in the form of high volume running I am doing a diservice to my long sprinters? Or is the GS work enough?

For long sprinters I think you should probably include some form of high volume tempo work. You could increase the bang for the buck of the tempo if you incorporate some GS into the running workout. I'm currently using 2 days of tempo running for my long sprinters (1 int. & 1 ext.) because I felt that it was sufficient to provide the benefits I was looking for while still minimizing the risks of overtraining and stress injuries.  On our third low-intensity day we go in to the pool.

ELITETRACK Founder