[David Gain]

David Gain on March 10, 2013 at 10:53 am #18745

As some of you may have seen I compete in short sprints (1000/200m) at fairly high level, I do very little in the way of gym work so I’m looking for advice on what exercises I should be doing, how many reps, what weights etc.

I went to the gym today (first time in nearly a year) and just did whatever I could think of on the spot to get the muscles working and get my body used to it again before I get into it properly.

I posted up what todays session was in my training log HERE so you can get an idea of what weights I was doing for each machine/exercise.

But I really need to make my sessions more specific to sprinting as there’s no point wasting energy working the wrong muscles or doing too many reps with too little weight when I should just be banging out 5 reps with twice the weight.

So fire away guys, what would you suggest?

[COV-GOD]

COV-GOD on March 10, 2013 at 11:06 pm #119532

Where to begin lol

This could cause a few arguments, I hope star jumps in on this thread tbh

I would initially just recommend a general strength programme just to work the organism to begin with as its new you to you, just getting the ventouse system adjusted will yield good results at the start. This close to the outdoor season for 2013 is perhaps too la to start thinking about anything too specific.

That being said, obvious things uch as posterior focus and eccentric strength are paramnt along with full range movements

[COV-GOD]

COV-GOD on March 10, 2013 at 11:07 pm #119533

Also dropping a little cash over at cf.com for the weights for speed series is well spent IMO

[davan]

davan on March 11, 2013 at 3:35 am #119535

I think COV-GOD has it right when he says that it is likely too late to do too much specific work.

Right now, I would likely just do very basic circuits or something extremely general and full body that is low to moderately challenging weights. Not too much volume or too much intensity because you will get far too tight and don’t have enough time to adapt.

Do you know how to squat or deadlift correctly and do you have much experience? Those tend to be better and more effective exercises than leg press with regards to strength, but you might have to make do.

Sticking with the exercises you are already doing from you log, I would consider something like this after warming-up:

3-4x through a circuit of:
Leg Press x 10-12
Push-ups (weighted if possible): 15-20
Abdominal exercise of your choice: 20 reps
Lat Pull-down x 10-12
Hyper/Back Extensions x 10-15
Abdominal exercise of your choice: 20 reps

Use moderately challenging weight and progressively overload each session–enough that you have to work, but nothing to failure except maybe push-ups. If you don’t have access to weight the push-ups, do some variation (clapping push-ups, diamond push-ups, decline/incline, whatever) to make it more difficult.

This is far away from what I think is optimal, but you have to make do at this point in the season and plan more appropriately for the fall. Medicine ball throws might be a better alternative if you have access to various ball weights (3-8kg or so) because they tend to cause less soreness in higher volumes and intensities.

[David Gain]

David Gain on March 11, 2013 at 5:49 am #119536

I’ll probably have a look at getting those weight videos from CF at some point, but as had been suggested it’s probably too close to outdoor season now so I’ll just stick to something like the circuit davan posted and then get on the weights in preparation for next year.

I’ll keep researching though so when I get round to it I know exactly what I’m doing.

And yes I know how to squat and deadlift properly, my form isn’t 100% but I’ll work on that with lighter weights while I’m working out what sessions to do.

[COV-GOD]

COV-GOD on March 11, 2013 at 6:18 am #119537

Your progression without weights has been really good and I think with a general organism plan of just getting you generally stronger will yield good benefits anyway.

Just watch the added size you might get from now to season…… You don’t want it! Your naturally slight, so your aim at the mo is neural development only

Just don’t try to look good on the beach! They are the wrong muscles to primarily focus on.

Just type strength/weights in to the search you will find some good stuff especially if you can find the bear droppings thread

[David Gain]

David Gain on March 11, 2013 at 6:33 am #119539

Exactly, there’s no point rushing into doing them now as it will probably be more of a hindrance in the short term, but definitely something to work on after the season is finished.

I certainly wouldn’t want to put on bulk just for the sake of it, I’d rather keep to roughly the size I am now but just improve the strength/power of the muscles I already have.

EDIT: So using the workout davan posted up but adding in some straight legged deadlifts I’ll probably just do this once a week to improve general strength and fitness for now…

3-4 circuits of:
Leg Press x 10-12
Push-ups (weighted if possible): 15-20
Abdominal exercise of your choice: 20 reps
Lat Pull-down x 10-12
Straight legged deadlifts x 10-12
Hyper/Back Extensions x 10-15
Abdominal exercise of your choice: 20 reps

[Zack Trapp]

Zack Trapp on March 14, 2013 at 10:00 pm #119566

I think it would be a good idea to add a few diffrent excercises. Don’t do the same thing every single time. I’d recomend subing in some lunges, reverse lunges, bench, pullups, and things of that nature. These excercises aren’t really too hard to pick up and IMO would be more beneficial than something like leg press

[davan]

davan on March 14, 2013 at 11:38 pm #119567

Pull-ups and bench better than leg press eh? Might want to explain that one ;).

Lunge varieties are great–I love walking and reverse lunges especially. The problem is that they cause quite a bit of soreness if you’re doing them in any sort of productive/stressing way. That’s a no go when you’re as fast as David and focusing on improving for speed for outdoors. Leg press gets a bad rap, but it’s really not a bad option for a newbie with minimal guidance. The lack of spinal loading is a huge positive in some circumstances as well.

[Zack Trapp]

Zack Trapp on March 15, 2013 at 1:29 am #119569

I guess I explained oddly. I don’t think pull ups or bench would be better than leg press really, I just sort of clumped them in with lunging varities just to explain that they were a good excercise that was easy to learn.

As for leg press, I don’t really like machine type weight that much because it takes the factor of stabilazation out of the excercise…so it almost is like BB type work. I feel like lunging is alot easier to learn than squat/deadlifts, the key is that you have to start off with bodyweight/little resistance and then move up. I think in David’s case, since he has had so much success without weights at all that he shouldn’t change the formula to much; he should try to start gradually.

[Eric Faust]

Eric Faust on March 15, 2013 at 8:42 am #119571

3-4 circuits of:
Leg Press x 10-12
Push-ups (weighted if possible): 15-20
Abdominal exercise of your choice: 20 reps
Lat Pull-down x 10-12
Straight legged deadlifts x 10-12
Hyper/Back Extensions x 10-15
Abdominal exercise of your choice: 20 reps

I’m not sure the above listed is really a great gym workout for a sprinter, it’s not terrible but little emphasis on some important muscle groups. Correct me if i’m wrong to suggest deadlifting/bench/squats/curls/cleans plus a good ab routine (med ball, L/V sits) wouldn’t be a better foundation? Even if you just focused on those 5 exercises at a very low rate(Say 5×4), slowly building up weight with correct form, i’d expect better results than what’s listed above. What’s listed is calisthenics plus deadlifts/leg press/lat pull downs. I’d also hesitate saying it’s to late, a good off-season could lead to remarkable results. Don’t hurt yourself!

On a side note, do you do any plyometrics?
edit: Potentially some back pulling as well, ie Rows w/ bar, One-Armed Pulls.

[Mccabe]

Mccabe on March 15, 2013 at 9:27 am #119572

No on the curls.

[David Gain]

David Gain on March 15, 2013 at 10:48 am #119573

haha, on all the forums I use there seem to be two main points people are taking from my training logs and lack of gym work…

1. ‘I can see why your 100m time isn’t up to par with your 200m’
2. ‘How on earth are you getting that 200m time with this training?’

Either way, as has been said before, whatever I’m doing seems to be working. So I think I’ll just forget about trying to get myself in the gym too much, and just concentrate on making sure I get to all my track sessions, and also think about doing some extra explosive med ball and plyometrics between ‘proper’ session.

[davan]

davan on March 15, 2013 at 1:06 pm #119577

Meh, Kim Collins has a very fast 10-20m and never/rarely did/does any weight lifting. You certainly don’t have to lift for success or a solid start, but it is a useful tool. Various medicine ball work could take you pretty far as it is, esp if you have access to a variety of weights (3-10kg).

[Eric Faust]

Eric Faust on March 15, 2013 at 4:26 pm #119579

No on the curls.

Just curious on reasoning here? always love new info! Thanks in advance. I was thinking that curls were a great tool for overall bio-mechanics(correct posture of course), and are a valid entry level sprinter exercise.

[Mccabe]

Mccabe on March 15, 2013 at 6:46 pm #119581

It’s an isolation exercise and I’m sure elbow flexion contributes little if anything to sprinting. The rest of your list was fine though.

[cdnsprinter]

cdnsprinter on April 22, 2013 at 12:41 am #119835

It’s an isolation exercise and I’m sure elbow flexion contributes little if anything to sprinting. The rest of your list was fine though.

Well the biceps is a tri-articulate muscle that crosses the elbow, forearm, and shoulder.
Granted that you keep your elbow at about 90 degree(if that’s your running style), then the muscle becomes active at some point in shoulder movement.

Ever had your biceps sore after an intense speed workout? there is a reason why.
Is it mainly for elbow stabilisation or is it sufficiently active in shoulder movement?
wether it’s because of the sustained tension you need to maintain a 90 degree angle at high velocity when you swing the arms backwards or because of the stretch/shortening effects it gets at the back or because it gets active to a certain degree in assisting shoulder movement, I can’t say which is more prevalent, but it is definitely recruited to some extent while sprinting.

The way I see it is at a certain level, every little bit counts, plus it helps in assisting with other important lifts for sprinters.

I don’t include biceps training in my periodization year round but it can be useful at some point during the course of the year and when I do, I do only one exercise for one or two sets of that exercise at the end of the session which is more than enough after you’ve done all your major lifts first.

[David Gain]

David Gain on December 28, 2013 at 6:31 pm #198158

Bit of a thread resurrection, but it made sense to keep all this together. I now have access to a new strength and conditioning facility at a local university, including Olympic bumper weights, squat racks and weight platforms etc. at my disposal.

I want to get myself a ‘proper’ gym plan sorted so I can make use of this new facility, I have almost 16 weeks until my first outdoor competition, and I plan on doing 2 gym sessions a week during this period. I just spent the last 3 hours watching the CF Weights for Speed series, although the bit I needed most i.e. sets, reps and percentages or any sort of guide on an overall weight plan was left out at the end which was slightly disappointing.

So I still need advice on where to start with that. Do I just go for a basic 5×5 program, or try to be a bit more clever and go for higher reps with low percentages in the earlier weeks and build up to lower reps and set with higher percentages and try to give it a proper structure?

[Zack Trapp]

Zack Trapp on December 29, 2013 at 5:22 am #198365

Its always great to actually see some activity on these boards. Two questions-

1.) Where are your strength levels right now?

2.) What has your set-up looked like this past year?

[David Gain]

David Gain on December 29, 2013 at 7:02 am #198437

Zack Trapp wrote:

Its always great to actually see some activity on these boards. Two questions-

1.) Where are your strength levels right now?

2.) What has your set-up looked like this past year?

My strength levels are certainly better than they were a year ago, although I don’t have any official 1RM figures to throw at you yet, that’s part of my schedule though.

My setup for the last year has comprised mostly of things like weighted lunges, bench press, power cleans, and squats in the gym, plus the general strength circuit we’ve been doing the 3 months at training.

Trying to use what Charlie said about keeping my sessions under my CNS capacity (which will need some fine tuning once I get started) I’ve started off with higher reps and low percentages. And then as the weeks go on, I’m gradually dropping the reps to allow for the increased intensity. After this 6 week period I should have a good idea of what I’m capable of, and I can then plan out the next block of 4 weeks, which will be more of a max strength phase and contain much lower reps, but higher percentages on the lifts.

Week 1: Testing, pick a manageable weight for each exercise and go for max reps so I can calculate my 1RM
Week 2: 3×10 at 40%
Week 3: 3×8 at 50%
Week 4: 2×8 at 60%
Week 5: 3×6 at 60%
Week 6: 3×5 at 65%

The reason for using this tapered plan was to give me time to practice my technique during the early weeks, while the weight is lighter, before increasing the weight from week 7 onwards. But once I’m through this practice/testing phase I will be going for 1-3 reps for up to 5 sets, as this should reduce hypertrophy and CNS stress.

I was also considering doing my weights after track sessions, so I will always have a full day of recovery until the next track session. As I worry that if I put my gym work between track sessions, it won’t give me time to recover as I’ll burn myself out in the gym?

[David Gain]

David Gain on December 29, 2013 at 7:22 am #198482

Also, on each of the 2 days per week in the gym, I was going to do: Bench Press, Squats and Power Clean on 1 day, and then Deadlift, Upright Rows and Glute Bridge on the other day. Thoughts?