[panther03]

panther03 on August 24, 2010 at 7:32 am #16981

Whenever I run into problems with training this site always seems to have advice that helps. So I figure maybe some of the experienced coaches here can help me with a coaching issue not related to training.

I am going into my 5th year at a high school, where I never had any issues until last year. The issue I have is that I’m a young coach who doesn’t have a long competitive career to my name (2 years at a community college). I realized right out of high school that I liked coaching and have attended numerous coaches clinics to try and make up for the lack of experience. My first 3 years at my current school I have had over 40 athletes qualify for the state meet. But for some reason this 4th year I started running into problems with a couple of the other coaches on my team (mainly our long and triple jump coach). One of the main problems I ran into was that as the sprints and hurdles coach I have the most athletes on the team that do other events, (ex. I had 50 athletes on roster only 20 of which did just sprints) and with no actual plan setup on what days athletes go to what events on what days I keep getting accused of not allowing athletes to get equal time at other events. Despite the fact that I also feel as if I’m robbed of critical time with athletes. Despite this because the athletes dont deserve to get put in the middle of such a stupid issue I have tried letting certain athletes spend most of their time with the other coach; only to have them come up at the end of the season saying they wish they would’ve worked out more with me cause they feel they would’ve gotten better. So I tried to talk to all the coaches and setup a plan for days to do certain events. But this just ended in me being the only one who followed the plan. I am frustrated since although I have had success compared to previous coaches that it is still a constant battle. I have had offers to go to other schools and have considered it but due to the athletes I have coming back who despite my trying to convince otherwise said they wouldn’t come back out if I left. Additionally with a great team coming back that I’ve spent so much time with I don’t want to leave.

I’m tired of seeing the kids get put in the middle and losing out because of coaches. So the question I have is; have any of you guys experienced similar problems and whats a good way to overcome these issues without causing more problems?

Additionally if any of you are jumps coaches how much time per week do you feel is critical to train your athletes in jump technique training at the high school level?

Ahead of time I thank everyone for any advice you can give.

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on August 24, 2010 at 1:53 pm #101315

Are you the head coach? If so, fire them.

Seriously, if they are not doing what you want them to do, then you need to find coaches who are willing to follow your plan. I’m not saying you need stooges, but you do need people who are going to listen.

[panther03]

panther03 on August 24, 2010 at 3:07 pm #101319

Are you the head coach? If so, fire them.

Seriously, if they are not doing what you want them to do, then you need to find coaches who are willing to follow your plan. I’m not saying you need stooges, but you do need people who are going to listen.

No I’m not unfortunately. We have 2 head coaches who split duties. The thing that makes one of them good to coach with is they let everyone just coach but when there are issues they take a stand off approach. Hoping the issue resolves itself.

[RussZHC]

RussZHC on August 24, 2010 at 9:58 pm #101325

From your references, it sounds like you are NOT one of those two head coaches.
If that is accurate, the first question I would have is why are you, as an “assistant”, the one designing a training routine (those athletes who compete in more than one event and when the spend time doing what with whom) rather than one of those two head coaches?

Seems to me if one of the “assistant” coaches takes on a task that IMO would normally fall under the umbrella of a head coach, that task is a prime place for any divisiveness to start. Again, IMO, this sounds like one of those situations where there is a leadership issue as compared to an actual coaching issue. Though I suspect I could handle the role of head coach, I don’t want it as I don’t believe it is my strong suit [IMO one spends too much time on administrative type tasks for my liking].

That does not really solve anything but I would suggest the place to start would be to have a bit of a conference with those 2 head coaches (you and them first) and express your thoughts and opinions regarding the entire matter. At the very least you will find out pretty quick just exactly how much backbone there is there.

I am, at the moment, “out” of what could be a similar situation where in my view the head coach was/is good at his specialty and coaching on a day-to-day athlete coach basis but has never been “good” at the role of team and head coach…not enough controls in place, some assistants doing way, way more work than others, no defense of the sport when other sports or obligations encroach on very limited facility use time, ridiculously soft standards for travel, seemingly no concern about his role in the Athletics community locally as a whole, obviously bias selection processes, etc.

Regarding one item you mention, if athletes don’t or won’t return (depending on your involvement) you can not get too deeply worried about that…yes you have time invested and it will feel like you are turning your back on some or have unfinished business BUT my experience has been athletes come and go and at that age often on whims so even with the best of intentions, there are no guarantees. This, sort of, falls under the same feelings as when one should pass an athlete on to a “better” coach that will help their development continue…it is emotional.

[panther03]

panther03 on August 25, 2010 at 7:13 am #101345

Russell- I appreciate the response. The program I am at each coach has a specific event that they coach. The head coaches are just event coaches who split the duties (like meet entries, arranging buses, etc.) of the head coach. There is no direct oversight over what other events are doing (are in some cases aren’t) on a day to day, or even over the length of the season. Each coach is allowed to run their events as they see fit. As you said this is where a lot of the issues come from.

You presented a lot of good points and perspectives I didn’t think about before, which is why I posted this on here and hopefully other people will present their thoughts as well. I will try some of your suggestions and hopefully the situation will improve. I appreciate your time

[RussZHC]

RussZHC on August 25, 2010 at 11:33 pm #101376

Panther03:

PM sent.

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on September 26, 2010 at 4:06 pm #102279

I have a question/issue that would fall under this category, so I figured I’d post it here.

I have a coach who is now entering their second season with me. Last season was a disaster for them. Very long story, but the kids HATE this coach. The SUPER short version is, they don’t agree with this coach’s coaching methods (although the methods were a success, considering the circumstances the coach had to work under). The athletes also have allegiances to the coach who succeeded the present one.

My question is, what can this coach do to get these kids to like them, be willing to follow them, listen to them, etc. How can the coach ensure this season doesn’t end up like last year and is hated by everyone and end up getting through to them?

[panther03]

panther03 on September 26, 2010 at 7:25 pm #102282

I have a question/issue that would fall under this category, so I figured I’d post it here.

I have a coach who is now entering their second season with me. Last season was a disaster for them. Very long story, but the kids [b]HATE[/b] this coach. The SUPER short version is, they don’t agree with this coach’s coaching methods (although the methods were a success, considering the circumstances the coach had to work under). The athletes also have allegiances to the coach who succeeded the present one.

My question is, what can this coach do to get these kids to like them, be willing to follow them, listen to them, etc. How can the coach ensure this season doesn’t end up like last year and is hated by everyone and end up getting through to them?

Well I am sure some others may have a little more experience but in my opinion this coach needs to make sure he focuses on the athletes… that means more than just their successes. He has to get to know them and connect with them. I’d have them have a practice where they talk. The way I do it is to have a quiz day I tell them where I am coming from as a coach why I coach the way I do and then give them some easy questions during the workout and give them reps off their workout for answering them (little do they know they only do what I originally planned anyways). The other thing I do has to take place during other parts of the year. If they are doing other sports I make it a point to go to them that way they see that I support them at all things. Hope this helps a little.

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on January 3, 2011 at 5:20 pm #104468

I have another issue…

In my sprint group, ALL of my athletes are freshman and sophomores. For the sophomores (and obviously the freshman), this is the first time they’ve trained all fall. Last year these sophs played basketball, came out for track in March, trained until mid June, took 4-6 weeks off, and came back in mid to late July for odd season training and have been going every since. Physically, they have improved leaps and bounds, and are ready to start competing for places in the state meet in quite a few sprint events. However, mentally and emotionally they have almost, in a way, regressed. They came out for fall training on their own because they wanted to get better. However, they don’t take it seriously at all. Also, they seem to hate being there. My question is, with the indoor season ready to start (first meet is next weekend), is this a developing situation for me as a coach as far as dealing with these girls? Or, is this to be expected from kids who have never trained like this before?

[mortac8]

mortac8 on January 3, 2011 at 5:48 pm #104469

Make sure they have enough variety and rest.

[PioCoach]

PioCoach on January 3, 2011 at 6:35 pm #104470

Jay- in regards to the problems with the other assistant coaches I would highly recommend sitting down as a staff and going over the training plans. Here you can discuss the commonalities found in both training groups and come to an understanding. Many of the biomotor abilities are addressed in both training modalities. Once you lay out what themes you are trying to address in a given session, micro, or macro you will be able to see when a given athlete should be with a certain coach. For the most part the sprinters and jumpers should be together. On technical days you could resolve the issue by having them come to you first and getting their technical aspect done, and then go over to the sprints coach. Or depending on their workout they may not need to go over as runway rehearsal is speed work, etc. The other big thing to remember is that it’s whats best for the athlete and team and not the coaches ego of staking claim to an athlete. It sounds like you are doing all the right things though, and I encourage you to keep the lines of communication open. In regards to the other issue I agree with the above post. Rest is one of the best things you can do for an athlete especially at the H.S level. The CNS is taxed tremendously already by the H.S Meet layout that you do not want to add to that potential burnout. Plan your rests carefully, and keep the training fresh. This is where the science of coaching is replaced by the art.

Best of luck to you this season!

[Jay Turner]

Jay Turner on January 4, 2011 at 5:35 pm #104477

” date=”1294057115″]Make sure they have enough variety and rest.

That’s the reason I wrote this post in the first place. I’m not sure if I can have any MORE variety in my workouts. I instilled as much variety as I could to prevent this very thing from ever occurring. So i don’t think it’s that.

As far as rest, this is how I’ve structured it…

Mid July through mid November: 3 days a week
Went from VERY GENERAL, to slightly less general.

Mid November to current: Monday through Friday
I have them completely rest on the weekends, as well as giving them an extra day off on every 4th week.

Also, during this entire period (from July to current) I am extremely liberal as to how many days I’ll allow off for things like homework, general soreness, stress, etc.

My opinion is they are extremely immature. One of the reasons I feel they hate it is more to the fact that they don’t know how to handle criticism, even of the constructive kind. Also, the two sophomores are always goofing around instead of paying attention. ALWAYS goofing around. My two sophomores are the ones who prompted me to write this in the first place. The freshman really aren’t that bad.

Thoughts?

[ex400]

ex400 on January 5, 2011 at 4:31 am #104481

Remember Cyndi Lauper? Girls just want to have fun! You say they are always goofing around, but you also say they have improved by leaps and bounds. Isn’t that what you want? So, unless they are disrupting your practices, maybe you don’t have that big an issue. If they are/were willing to train all the way from July, I’d say you and they are doing okay. With my girls, I really don’t care if they goof around, gossip, joke, etc as long as they do the work when and as prescribed. I don’t presume to know your coaching style, but an authoritarian approach will not work with adolescent girls in my experience.

As for not taking criticism, again these girls are only 14-16 years old. They will not take criticism well in general and they won’t take it from you until and unless you have established trust with them.

[Matt Norquist]

Matt Norquist on January 5, 2011 at 1:41 pm #104488

Good Thread.

A few comments:

1. Sprinter/Jumpers at HS level – if they are not already at/near elite levels in jumps (IE – 2.05+/7.00+/14.00+) they are probably very well served spending a great deal of time working on general capabilities – particularly speed. I can’t see a need for more than 2 days a week technical jump work. Also, there is no reason why you can’t borrow a page from multi-eventers and use technical work as part of a longer warm-up prior to primary work session. IE – approaches as part of warm-up on accel or maxV day. Short approach jumps on other days, etc.

2. You have to get the whole crew on board with a sound training plan at the start of the year. Not doing that is absurd. If you’re having trouble getting buy-in from multiple coaches, the smartest thing you can do is contact someone in your area who has face credibility with all the coaches (Someone who has been, trained with, or coached Olympic Caliber athletes – there are people like this in virtually every city in the US). Have this credible expert meet with the whole staff (offer free drinks – will cost you under $100) and ask them about event goals and then have him give you training template suggestions. Then follow them.

3. The other way to get some buy-in is to ask the jumps coaches about their goals for their athletes and then offer to design the “non-technical” part of their training – IE: Accel Monday; Tempo Tuesday; Running Tech Wednesday; MaxV or Meet Thursday; Recovery Friday; Speed Endurance or Int Tempo Sat; etc.