High School 4×100

    Posted In: Sprints

        • Member
          44Blue on February 11, 2008 at 8:12 pm #14337

          I’m looking for some help with 4×100 baton exchanges for high school athletes. I’m a sprint coach in the Northeast with 3 returnees from a pretty good 2007 4×100. The kids I have coming back are a 11.40(1st), 11.31(2nd), and 10.83(anchor); all times are FAT from last spring. My leading candidate for the 3-hole ran 11.52 (FAT)last spring; he will be replacing a kid who ran 11.43. The team’s best time last year was 43.05 FAT.

          The kids are multi-sport athletes (football, and basketball or indoor); all have been lifting pretty faithfully since last spring, and I believe all are faster than they were a year ago. Three are seniors and one is a junior. My ultimate goal is 41.99 by June!

          I’m looking for some advice or information sources regarding baton exchanges. We have used a traditional model in past seasons (verbal call/downward pass; we practice a lot and the kids take the exhanges very seriously. I’m hoping that forum contributors can offer some advice and/or or direct me to sources (articles, et.al) that can help me take our exchanges to a greater level of proficiency.

          Thanks.

        • Participant
          mortac8 on February 11, 2008 at 9:33 pm #68392

          If I were you, I would stick with the verbal & downsweep pass. I tried to switch from downsweep to a pushpass (natural exchange) and it was difficult for the guys to make the transition to a new style. I think proper “go” marks and movement through the zone are far more important than the passing method.

          https://books.google.com/books?id=V6uDJqDdVLwC&pg=PA129&lpg=PA129&dq=snatch+pass&source=web&ots=p96AMgqPxP&sig=iAi9bIu-vEqVZy6sI01bC8Mp6gA

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on February 11, 2008 at 9:52 pm #68396

          We use push pass and silent blind cues. Last year I switched from verbal blind to silent blind pass. It made us MUCH more consistent (not a single missed pass last year) and I think once you get over the fear of not hearing a command it has the potential to make it more machine-like and automatic.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          hscoach on February 11, 2008 at 10:10 pm #68398

          please elaborate mike. does the outgoing runner put his hand back after a certain number of strides?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on February 11, 2008 at 10:15 pm #68402

          please elaborate mike. does the outgoing runner put his hand back after a certain number of strides?

          Yes. Typically about 6-8 hard steps.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          sbones on February 11, 2008 at 10:22 pm #68404

          One thing I discovered last year was the importance of reliable acceleration mechanics.
          Upon further reflection, this is a no-brainer, but we struggled all year with one of our guys who just could not/would not start the same way twice.
          I’m also going to try to blind/no call pass this year. I suspect it may help the outgoing runner accelerate better since he/she won’t be listening for the call. I think listening may make them hold back a little.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on February 11, 2008 at 10:25 pm #68405

          I also think the call introduces one more layer of variability in to an already complex task. On the surface it would seem to be safer but at least in my case we haven’t found that to be the case.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          hscoach on February 11, 2008 at 10:41 pm #68407

          s.bones: we have the same problem and this year we are going to really work on proper relay accel patterns. we use a version of the snatch method – so i am not sure if we can go “no call” but i would like to try. i have found that the snatch method can be an equalizer for a “slower” team. we ran 49.88 FAT with four 13+ 100m girls. however, it took us all year to get it right!

        • Participant
          W.E. Price on February 11, 2008 at 10:49 pm #68408

          I also think the call introduces one more layer of variability in to an already complex task. On the surface it would seem to be safer but at least in my case we haven’t found that to be the case.

          Thoroughly agree. We use push-pass indoors, as well as outdoors. With our program, each has a specific responsibility that can also be seen as independent as well. The incoming runner practices sprinting through all zones and the outgoing runner has a visual takeoff cue and step cue for arm/hand extension.

        • Participant
          sbones on February 11, 2008 at 10:53 pm #68409

          I also think the call introduces one more layer of variability in to an already complex task. On the surface it would seem to be safer but at least in my case we haven’t found that to be the case.

          I just talked this over with my son, who ran #3 for us last year, and he said he sees the immediate advantage of a silent/no call pass is that everything the outgoing runner does is active and not reactive. Again, I think this will help the outgoing runner move more quickly through the zone.

          Mike – what’s your control for when the outgoing runner hits the mark and the stick is not there?

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on February 11, 2008 at 11:11 pm #68413

          Mike – what’s your control for when the outgoing runner hits the mark and the stick is not there?

          What do you mean control? We only had one time last year where we were in danger of running out of the zone and the outgoing runner just knew enough to slow up. It definitely cost us some time but we made the exchange cleanly. I’d just make sure both runners are cognizant of where the exchange has to be made and then work out something (either a verbal safety or a nonverbal slow down period) to make it happen.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Participant
          sbones on February 11, 2008 at 11:44 pm #68414

          [quote author="S.Bones" date="1202750652"]
          Mike – what’s your control for when the outgoing runner hits the mark and the stick is not there?

          What do you mean control? We only had one time last year where we were in danger of running out of the zone and the outgoing runner just knew enough to slow up. It definitely cost us some time but we made the exchange cleanly. I’d just make sure both runners are cognizant of where the exchange has to be made and then work out something (either a verbal safety or a nonverbal slow down period) to make it happen.[/quote]
          By “control” I meant what you’re calling a “verbal safety” or “slow down period”. Which did you use, and why?

        • Member
          44Blue on February 12, 2008 at 12:19 am #68415

          This discussion—which I hope will continue—has already proven to be very helpful. Thank you one and all.

        • Keymaster
          Mike Young on February 12, 2008 at 12:59 am #68416

          By “control” I meant what you’re calling a “verbal safety” or “slow down period”. Which did you use, and why?

          I really didn’t set a protocol for it and we didn’t really need it other than the one instance in which case the athletes knew where the zones were and knew they needed to get the stick before they left so they just slowed down.

          ELITETRACK Founder

        • Member
          Zach Batcho on February 14, 2008 at 1:20 am #68440

          As a high school athlete I always found blind hand-offs easier than saying a verbal cue once you became comfortable with who you were running with. For example if you run second leg and you know the first leg guy is strong finisher and you are a slower to accelerate you would start running earlier than if he was weak finisher. Once those issues are worked out blind hand-offs feel much more natural. I problem I always noticed in high school was coaches having each runner start running off the same cues instead of individualizing the cues.

        • Participant
          hscoach on February 14, 2008 at 1:22 am #68441

          what do you mean by “coaches having each runner start running off the same cues”? please explain.

        • Member
          Zach Batcho on February 14, 2008 at 1:27 am #68442

          my high school coach would have us walk back 16 shoe legs and place a cut tennis ball. once the incoming runner reach that tennis ball we would would start running. the problem there was i was slow to accelerate so the incoming runner always run up my butt. i had to move back to 24 steps to be able to have a clean hand-off. once each of the legs individualized our cues we dropped atleast .3 to .5 through our hand offs and we were a relay that were only able to run together 3 times.

        • Participant
          hscoach on February 14, 2008 at 1:29 am #68444

          gotcha.

        • Participant
          trackhenson on March 22, 2008 at 3:13 am #68993

          With my guys this year, we follow a short, long, short, long method, (leg one hands off early in the zone, leg two carries approx. 115m, leg 3 short, etc.) We do this because there is a large gap between our fastest two and our slowest two. It’s a bit risky, we get close to the edges sometimes, but its proved our fastest times for sure.

          I’ve never tried the silent/blind handoff, but willing to try.
          The 2nd and 4th leg shouldn’t be a problem, but the second handoff could be shaky getting so close to the end of the zone.

          Has anyone who has ever followed the short, long method ever had problems with the silent/blind handoff?

        • Participant
          premium on April 14, 2008 at 3:43 am #69356

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